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Plans for ARFs?

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View Poll Results: A poll
Plans available separately only
14.71%
Plans included in ARF box only
8.82%
No plans available
29.41%
Plans included in box and available separately
38.24%
Plans available after ARF is discontinued
8.82%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

Plans for ARFs?

Old 03-25-2007, 01:44 PM
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RVman
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Default Plans for ARFs?

How many people would like to see manufacturers to make plans available for the arfs that they produce? Everyone knows that kit selection is going down while arfs are everywhere. I would like for manufacturers to make plans available separately from the arf. That way i can still build the plane, but use my own techniques, wood, and finish etc.
I don't know how feasible it is for the arf manufacturers to make plans for the arfs? But i think they could without a lot of work and it would certainly please me if they did.

Tom
Old 03-25-2007, 03:33 PM
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khodges
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

I've heard of kits becoming ARF's, but not the other way around. Why? There's thousands of plans available for everything from a .049 free flight to 50% and larger scale. Can't think of an ARF other than a scale model of something that I'd want to build; if it's a scale model there are much better plans available for one of those. if you want to build an ARF from plans, just get a good set of plans for the bird you want, and leave half the framework out of it.
Old 03-25-2007, 04:41 PM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

other pount is alot of the arf's are going to fiberglass fuselage while it can be done built up the internal structure would have to be different
Old 03-25-2007, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

Plans are helpful for making repairs, especially with badly damaged wings. I'd like to see them made available but I know it's never going to happen.
Old 03-25-2007, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?


ORIGINAL: orenda635

Plans are helpful for making repairs, especially with badly damaged wings. I'd like to see them made available but I know it's never going to happen.
That's because they don't want you to repair it. They want you to run out and buy another one instead. That's the manufacturer's mentality behind ARF, disposable and replacable.

Ken
Old 03-25-2007, 08:20 PM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

I have an ARF or two and I like them but it would be nice to be able to build some of them myself. Even the best ARF's can suffer from weak glue joints and other issues. What I would really like to see is short kits of the various ARF's that consist of ribs, formers, etc. After all, they're cutting the parts for the ARF, why not just package a few and sell them? Of course, I doubt they could sell enough to justify the cost of packaging, printing the plans, writing the intructions, advertising, and so on.
Old 03-25-2007, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

khodges, where do i find these thousands of plans?
Lets take the hangar 9 showtime 50 for example. I do not like arfs personally and would like to build that plane as they fly pattern/3d really well. Where in the world could i find a set of plans for that plane or even that style of plane that is not overbuilt/heavy etc.
If they would simply sell the plan separately i would have no trouble.
Chuck, i agree, if they include the wood, even better.


Old 03-25-2007, 09:59 PM
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khodges
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?


ORIGINAL: ChuckW

What I would really like to see is short kits of the various ARF's that consist of ribs, formers, etc. After all, they're cutting the parts for the ARF, why not just package a few and sell them? .
Then you don't have an ARF, you have a kit. You just said it yourself. Most ARF's have a "parts" list and you can usually order a replacement wing, or fuselage if something gets too broke to Ca back together.

Almost Ready to Fly; means you don't have to glue all the pieces together, it's done for you so you can get to the field faster; of course, the downside is that it looks like everybody else's ARF.

KIT is the box of parts that takes longer to assemble, when done it's better built than an ARF (well, depends on the builder) and it's YOUR creation.

RVman--- look in the AMA magazine or go online to their plans service. Model Airplane News has a special issue about every year with about 20 pages of plans available. Every R/C mag out there has ads for plans.

Why would you want plans to build a H-9 Showtime 50, when there's plans for a hundred similar and better planes. If you want the ARF, buy the ARF. I'm not knocking ARF's, I have several. I repair them when they break, but I sure don't want to build one like them.

I look at it like beef. If I'm in a hurry, I hit the BK drive-thru and get a burger. It's okay, and fills me up; if I want a great piece of meat, I go to the market, take it home and cook it myself; it tastes better, and it's done to MY satisfaction. Takes longer, there's some degree of skill involved cooking it. Why would I go to BK and ask them for a patty and bun, take it home and throw it in the microwave? That's what building a kitted ARF would be like, IMO.

A case in point is the ARF I'm "building" now. I couldn't find the kit I wanted of the plane, so I buy the ARF (Cox/Pica WACO YMF). There isn't much on the plane I haven't re-done to make it closer to the original Pica kit that Cox "re-engineered" to mass market. I've beefed up weak structure, rebuilt pieces that for some unknown reason were modified AWAY from the scale appearance (wingtips, for instance). I could have built the original kit in less time than it's taken me to modify this ARF.
Old 03-26-2007, 08:21 AM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

khodges, you have a way with words!!!
Old 03-26-2007, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

I think when they discontinue an arf they should make the plans available. They don't even need a printer. All they would need to do is send them on a CD or email them to you and it's up to you to get them printed. Would be almost all profit for them and take about a whole 10 minutes to do.
Or someone could even contact the manufactures and get the rights to sell the plans giving the manufacture a cut of every copy sold.
Some might go for it as it would cost them nothing and at the moment there making nothing off them.
There is a couple i would like to build but without the plans it ain't gonna happen.
My first glow plane was a Hobbyco Brightstar and man i sure would like to have another,But as it was discontinued i'm s.o.l.
Now i have the skills i would at lest buy the plans in a minute and build one for the nostalgia and it flew great!!
Pat

PS the pole should also have "Plans available after arf discontinued"
Old 03-26-2007, 03:15 PM
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RVman
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

ORIGINAL: khodges

RVman--- look in the AMA magazine or go online to their plans service. Model Airplane News has a special issue about every year with about 20 pages of plans available. Every R/C mag out there has ads for plans.

Why would you want plans to build a H-9 Showtime 50, when there's plans for a hundred similar and better planes. If you want the ARF, buy the ARF. I'm not knocking ARF's, I have several. I repair them when they break, but I sure don't want to build one like them.

I look at it like beef. If I'm in a hurry, I hit the BK drive-thru and get a burger. It's okay, and fills me up; if I want a great piece of meat, I go to the market, take it home and cook it myself; it tastes better, and it's done to MY satisfaction. Takes longer, there's some degree of skill involved cooking it. Why would I go to BK and ask them for a patty and bun, take it home and throw it in the microwave? That's what building a kitted ARF would be like, IMO.

A case in point is the ARF I'm "building" now. I couldn't find the kit I wanted of the plane, so I buy the ARF (Cox/Pica WACO YMF). There isn't much on the plane I haven't re-done to make it closer to the original Pica kit that Cox "re-engineered" to mass market. I've beefed up weak structure, rebuilt pieces that for some unknown reason were modified AWAY from the scale appearance (wingtips, for instance). I could have built the original kit in less time than it's taken me to modify this ARF.
In the beef case i can't agree. You wouldn't go to BK for the materials to make your burger, just for the PLAN to make that burger.

I simply want the plans so i can build that plane with my style of building, with my glue, my covering, my wood etc. Most arf designs fly very well, they just aren't built the best.

With your arf waco, if you could have bought those plans, and built it from scratch there would have been no big deal modding the wingtips, beefing up weak wood etc. Does this make sense?
Old 03-26-2007, 07:59 PM
  #12  
khodges
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?


ORIGINAL: RVman



In the beef case i can't agree. You wouldn't go to BK for the materials to make your burger, just for the PLAN to make that burger.

I simply want the plans so i can build that plane with my style of building, with my glue, my covering, my wood etc. Most arf designs fly very well, they just aren't built the best.

With your arf waco, if you could have bought those plans, and built it from scratch there would have been no big deal modding the wingtips, beefing up weak wood etc. Does this make sense?
The beef analogy is valid when you apply it to your desire to buy an ARF "short kit". You're getting the plans plus materials, which are invariably "lighter duty" in an ARF than with a comparable kit. The WACO is touted by Cox to be the Pica kit in ARF form; this is very far from the truth when you can see how both are built. The only similarities really are the outer dimensions of the plane. So, in that light, I felt sort of cheated by Cox, especially when you consider this ARF is almost $400. It's a nice ARF, but a far cry from how the kit would have built. I really wanted one of these planes (YMF WACO, not necessarily the Cox version). In retrospect, I should have looked harder for the kit, they are around, but not made any more, or sucked it up and really done it right with a Barth or Genesis 1/4 scale.

This is one reason I can't understand why you would want to build an ARF version of a plane, when there are true kits, and plans, of the same plane that are better engineered. You can still "build it your way", but you're starting out with Cadillac plans instead of the
Yugo ones. You can always change things around to suit yourself (one of the greatest fun aspects of building), but it's better to start off with something better.

One of the things not readily apparent when you read a test report on an ARF is durability. This thing gets put together, test flown, the report is written in glowing language about how easily it went together, how well it performs, etc. then it may not get flown again, or if it does, how often, and how well is it holding up after 100 flights? I haven't seen a long-term test like Motor Trend does for cars, that says "this ABC arf is so durable that we can't tear it up" kind of stuff.

In a way, I think it's refreshing; certainly a step in the opposite direction of the current trend, to want to build as opposed to buying it already built.
Old 03-26-2007, 08:05 PM
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RVman
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

I agree on the durability for sure, thats why I'd rather build, i guess i'd have to go searching a lot more for the plans I want. There is the trade off between durability and weight, i don't think arf's are underbuilt except for the firewall and LG, and thats how they end up so light. I just look at some of the arf planes, they look nice and i may want one, but I won't buy it since its an arf and wont last more than a few years before it falls apart.
Old 03-26-2007, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

I started to make a post, but then decided Naaah.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Old 03-26-2007, 08:47 PM
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Live Wire
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Default RE: Plans for ARFs?

People want all the extras in the ARF but when they tag on extra to the price then they want it back the way it was. Just check out the price of the stuff you want added to an ARF and watch the price go up

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