Guy, we are wanting to start combat in our club and we need to know everything. We are hoping to use the same plane and thinking .25 size. We need how to and rule help also.
thanks a bunch, chip

Start by going to:
http://rccombat.com/rcca.asp
Rules for several classes are posted there. There's also a topic forum on that site with everything anyone might need to know about Combat stuff.

For inexpensive and simple designs, go to:
http://www.spadtothebone.com

Take a look at those sites, decide exacly what style of Combat suits your group best and you'll be off and running.

HTH,
D

Thanks for the help!!! I will check them out and pass on the info to the other guys.
chipsta

Be sure to look at the SSC class. The .15 engine limitation and RPM max make it a simple and fun class. The B (up to .30) class is a blast but is unlimited by RCCA rules. With aftermarket mufflers and engine hop ups it gets fast real quick! Stand off scale planes are competative too!

You can allso look at the SPAD site and build some GNAT,s.they are cheap to build use .15 engines ,most of the stuff you need can be gotten at most hard ware stores.They make great club combat planes for getting your feet wet after that you can move up to the more serious planes that are out there that will hold up to the abuse.

Chipsta,

Heres my suggestion, since everyone is going to start from scratch I suggest that you encourage everyone to build 64" wing planes in the 2 1/2lb-3 lb range in weight. Then power them with OS LA25 plain bearing engines stock muffler. I am not saying to have an IROC class but this focus will allow you to have the most fun per minute versus build per minute. Also this puts your building skills up to the task to crossover into many organized events and have a competative airframe to do well with. Heres what it takes minumum to do the national organized events and be competative with equipment. IMHO

open A =.15 engine max, no mod restrictions, max weight 2 1/2lbs wingspan norms ?

open b =.30 engine max no mod restrictions, max weight 3 1/2lb wingspan norms 64"

open C =.46 engine max, no mod restrictions, max weight ? wingspan norms?

SSC = .15 only under 60$, no mods allowed, minimum weight 2 1/2 lbs wingspan 60" norm.



Based on this is why my suggestions, the normal course that takes the fun out of it is more time building and preparing for an event versus flying. SSC planes can go entire seasons. The key was to get the speeds down, some crossover open b models did not perform very well with just an engine swap out, to heavy wingloading. If every one focuses on these goals the added power of the LA will give you good performance but keep it sane, survivable, competative and not buying equipment you regret as attrition and evolution takes it's course.

Dont forget, you need more than a handfull to play, you must do what it takes so that it becomes obtainable, fun affordable for all right out of the starting gate and keep them.

The technology horse race has burnt out a group of 30 combat pilots in my area that no longer play, now just a handfull, SOooo SAaaddd.................Learn from others mistakes.....

Oh another note, perhaps you could start another thread on combat radio gear and components... I would suggest that you go with Hitec 85mg servos, one for each aileron, and one for elevator, also it takes receivers that weigh in less than 2oz. not a requirement but equipment that will crossover and not regret for those that do have to purchase new.....

Good luck...........

Only trouble with the .25LA is that your planes won't qualify for SSC. And you would be seriously outclassed if you decied to attend a B contest. You may be better off to pick an existing class and go with it. I would suggest SSC. I'm sure you think that .15 size planes with 64" wingspans must be dogs. I would have said the same thing a year ago. These planes fly great! They will perform continuous loops inside or out and are great flyers. You'll probably have to see it to beleive it!

Who knows you might want to come to the Nats or just a contest down the road a bit and mix it up! A real pain if your local rules are differant than the national ones.

Also in SSC you must run a Master Airscrew 8x3 prop.

Good thread, my club currently has a B class and starting up an SSC next year, I will be flying the spad HOR with the .15 LA, I would like to see radio gear sugestions.
Joe

I agree with C/F on the HS-85 metal geared servo. Very tough and work great. I like the Hitec recievers also. The 555 will take a ton of abuse and vibration without fialure. Radical RC has a great 300 ma NiMh battery for arond 9$. Very light and small. I also like to use a servo on each aileron. Much more authority and some redundancy. Also if you fly a scale plane and have a servo in the center of the wing and the wing shifts in a midair your servo is jammed and probably you have a large hole in the side of the fuselage where the servo went through! I've landed with the wing at some amazing angles. Funny thing is that it doesn't seem to fly to bad even out to 45 degrees or so!

My equipment preffereance is identical,

85MG X 4 I even use them on throttle as a front end collision was stripping a plastic geared mini throttle servo even the 85 plastic...Stay away from 81's totally differant than the 85.

I am so impressed with these Hitec 85MG that I use them on many of my sport models (one model does 125+MPH with these installed smooth as silk) The major portion of my standard servo fleet consists of JR4131 servos.

Dual aileron servo's almost doubles your torque over 1 standard servo, with 60" inches of aileron thats a good thing. really improves performance.

Receiver preferance is no big deal other than you want one in the .75 oz or less range. Some I've used Hitec555, Hitec SuperSlim 7, Berg, Expert, and FMA. Super slim 7 Hitec has taken the most abuse by far and still works, the rest all seem to give glitches after abuse, but none have failed in the air.

Radical rc for battery, 4.8V 300MAH NMH, last as long as generic 500MAH Nicads, $9 is without plug ends, $12 with.

99% combat pilots ,DO NOT use a switch, just a plug in connection.

These recommendations are not required, but just a guide for those that actually are going to gear up, the price of these items would be equal to any other choices. Servos are a bit more only cause there metal gears, combat strips allot of plastic gears so it will pay for themselves in the end.

Hat Trick is probably a little shy about suggesting his own airplane kits but they are a fine choice. And cheap to boot. I would suggest a bunch of Chokers B class ships from Hat Trick. I think he gives volume discounts and has a combat guarantee where if you don't use the kits you buy from him he'll buy them back. But you better consult his web-site. www.hattrickrc.com
My only other suggestion would be to just use stock mufflers for club level and leave off any muffler upgrades until some of the guys want to fly at an RCCA sanctioned meet. The higher speeds will result in more damage and may scare off a few new pilots wanting to join in on the fun. Good Luck. I also agree with what has been posted about Hitec radio gear. HS-85MG's and 555 recievers with plug in switch are the combat standard.

Guy thanks for all the help! I have been talking with some of our club and we are leaning toward the larger wing span plane and now thinking LA 40 because lots of people have them. The larger wing span to keep it visable and slower. Are we way off with the 40? Can you recomend an arf?
thanks again, chip

That would put you in the most unpopular OPEN class available. The biggest lobbying group that pushed for a .40+ class is now 70+% SSC and on their way to promoting open A using the same equipment with just an engine change that will output the Barrel Horsepower that rivals the LA40.

How does this differ so much from what you want? Well flight envelope and speed won't be all that much, but with a max of 2 1/2lbs the impact distruction they hope to go down from their now defunct C class days. This state in the union loves speed and is home of the fastest combat crowd I've ever been up against.........

I suggest if you want to use a .40 size engine that you reduce the speed by requiring a stock muffler and a common prop and a max allowed nitro or common fuel, I would suggest a 10X3, Master Airscrew and 10% nitro. If someones engines seemed to be handicapped as you get to know each others equipment you could then allow them more nitro content.

Once again learn from others mistakes, the majority will need time to evolve their building and flying skills and are subject to the fast learners with money to spend and what you end up with is a lopsided massacre that is no fun for the majority, only the minority.

Ill list in order what fundamentals, I think kills most combat at the local level, others please chime in with what you think is the priortiy, perhaps some will see a pattern.

Speed, Weight, Funds for constant change, Pilot building skills to be competative.

as far as servos, I go the cheap route and use the Tower TS-53's, you can get 12 for $110 and their tough and take a beating. And if one gets smashed in a mid air, your not out much cash..

also for club combat I recommend the .15's and a 36" wing. The 36" wing is the easiest and quickest to build if you build them with just a cheap wooden spar, they also require only one leading edge stock and aileron stock each. I can hotwire 3 wings and have them dressed and ready to fly in one day.

wooden spars are the pine wooden lattice material from Home Depot, wings covered with the colored packing tape (zagi)

CF is right on. If you don't have strict rules someone will come out with a high powered engine and slaughter everyone. It's ante up or get out time. Someone comes out with a really light plane and slaughters everyone. Same thing. If you start low tech like spads etc and someone comes out with an Avenger and slaughters everyone. It 's ante up again and learn new building techniques.

This is one of the main reasons RCCA was created to try and have the same rules in place all over the country.

If you want high speed and high performance and high dollars go with B class. If you want lower speeds and lower tech and less shop time, go SSC.

There's nothing wrong with creating your own local combat class but you'll miss out on a lot of fun if you can't use the same equipment at a nearby meet.

if everybody want to just try combat to see if they like it, and many guys already have a 40 LA, you can still give it a try, just get a good B-class ship like a Choker, and put the 40LA on it. A 40 LA has about the same power and weight as the high performance 25/28 engines used in combat. Put a 9x6 or 10x4 or 10x5 prop on it and you will get equivalent performance, and if folks like it and want to try competing at an RCCA event, they can get a 25FX or other b-legal powerplant and bolt it on!

We have some guys who have shown interest in combat. One of them and I are going to build a couple of SRR spads to SSC specifications. Should be cheap and if it catches on we can probably find other clubs to compete with. I know there were some in the Cincinnati area.

Contact Jay From. He's from your area and can help you get going. There is a bunch of combat near to you and your pretty close to the Nats!