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RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

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RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

Old 01-17-2009, 01:55 PM
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eaterofdog
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Default RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

I have been flying 450 rc helicopters for a while. When I recently got my Firestorm, I noticed that the steering control is analogous to the rudder control on a helicopter. So you should be able to stabilize the steering with a gyro. I looked around and saw some pricey "drift control" systems, ie gyros, for sale. Interesting.

Edit: Third channel is NOT required. The gain can be adjusted via a pot on the gyro.
I just bought a new DX3 system yesterday, a sweet deal on craigslist. Looking through the manual, I notice that the default setting for the third channel is a -100 to +100 output. I guess this is used for mixture on nitro, but it also happens to be a remote gain setting for a gyro.

So I removed a Telebee gyro from my old HBK2 helicopter and installed it on the Firestorm. The servo plugs into the gyro and the gyro plugs into the servo port on the RX and the gyro also plugs into channel 3 for remote gain. The gyro passes your commands to the servo and also makes automatic corrections to the yawing of the car. Any uncommanded turning of the car is immediately countered with an adjustment.

This gyro supports head holding and rate modes. -100 to 0 is rate mode, 0 to 100 is head holding. The head holding acts weird, I'm not sure why. I doesn't lock onto a holding the way it should. Rate mode works well however. I am testing at -60 gain right now.

Here's my notes from the first test runs.
• No spin outs off the line. My car is pretty new and I haven't even replace the diff grease with fluid yet. Punching it from a stop makes it squirrelly. The gyro keeps it straight off the line.
• Straight line out of donuts. Know how a car will stay in a full throttle donut unless you countersteer out of it? With the gyro, it comes straight out of the donut spinning wheels and all. You let off the steering and away it goes.
• Drifting of course. Pick your line and your throttle and the gyro makes it happen. This is where the fine tuning of the gain is needed. I want to get a smooth slide with no oscillation.
• It looks WEIRD. Watching the car make perfect corrections is freaky.

I'd like to test the effect on high speed stability as well. My brushed system isn't that fast, but I will be swapping it out soon. It seems like this gyro would work best at helping control a fast brushless setup.

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Old 01-17-2009, 02:07 PM
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traxxaspede
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

what gyro is that? ive been thinking about doing that on my stampede. and how much was the gyro?
Old 01-17-2009, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

Any helicopter rate gyro would work. Rate gyros are cheap. $15-20 should be a basic rate gyro. If you have a remote gain channel, make sure the gyro supports it.

This one is $50 because it's a head holding gyro. Head holding isn't needed, so save some money if you buy one.
Old 01-17-2009, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

Couple videos of a Rustler and Bandit on Youtube with gyros.

[link=http://www.youtube.com/user/crxyoyo03]crxyoyo03's Channel[/link]

[link=http://www.youtube.com/user/cusseck]cusseck's Channel[/link]
Old 01-17-2009, 02:55 PM
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traxxaspede
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

so would a really small gyro work as well as a bigger one?
Old 01-17-2009, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

so would this be a good one to use??


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMSF8&P=0
Old 01-17-2009, 05:46 PM
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eaterofdog
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

That would work fine.
Old 01-17-2009, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

HPI has their own Gyro specifically for drifting called a D-Box, but its like $100.
I've kinda wanted to try one but if any other gyro works basically the same way then Ill save myself the money and try to find one cheap. Thanks for tip!
Old 01-17-2009, 08:40 PM
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Access
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

I'm pretty sure this is illegal though. 5.2.3 in the 2009RRB.

"The use of traction control sensing devices, active suspension devices, and steering control devices aided by gyroscopes or accelerometers (G-force sensors) of any kind is strictly prohibited. Sensors may be used for the purpose of passive data recording but not for adjusting the performance of the vehicle while in motor."

Otherwise sounds like a good idea.
Old 01-17-2009, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

So what HPI did with their D-Box is illegal? That is all the HPI D-Box is, a gyro with a fancy name and the HPI label so they can charge a small fortune. But to be totally honest, what kind of cop is going to know about that, and what kind of person would turn someone in for doing something like that. Sure, maybe if they were using a gyro at like the Worlds or something to help their car keep a tighter line they should probably be turned in, but stuff like this, its pointless to even read that small print laws stuff.
Old 01-17-2009, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm


ORIGINAL: Access

I'm pretty sure this is illegal though. 5.2.3 in the 2009RRB.

"The use of traction control sensing devices, active suspension devices, and steering control devices aided by gyroscopes or accelerometers (G-force sensors) of any kind is strictly prohibited. Sensors may be used for the purpose of passive data recording but not for adjusting the performance of the vehicle while in motor."

Otherwise sounds like a good idea.
that sounds like for racing, why would it be illegal? its just to help keep your vehicle going straight
Old 01-17-2009, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

Probably because it's an unfair advantage. It makes quite a difference.
Old 01-17-2009, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

ORIGINAL: Krawlin
using a gyro at like the Worlds or something to help their car keep a tighter line they should probably be turned in, but stuff like this, its pointless to even read that small print laws stuff.
Just pointing it out, that's all. I'm not trying to explain or defend it.
Old 01-17-2009, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

ORIGINAL: eaterofdog

Probably because it's an unfair advantage. It makes quite a difference.
oh, i should of worded that different, i meant why would it be illegal for bashing
Old 01-17-2009, 09:53 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

There is no defined law of racing/bashing, they figure if you have a hobby grade RC, you are most likely going to race it.

But yes, it would give you a very unfair advantage, its an "auto-pilot" or "traction control" of sorts. It provides added control and stability that no human being can achieve from counter-steering because a gyro is so much more precise.

However, it seems odd that there is a law against using them in an RC car, because if it was illegal and HPI's D-Box is a gyro (which it is), HPI did something illegal and wouldn't that be a lawsuit waiting to happen? [&:][&:]
Old 01-17-2009, 10:27 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

Wait, so just to get this straight, its illegal for racing only, right? Because I just can't imagine someone calling the cops on you because your rc has something equivalent of a very good traction control system on a 1:1...
Old 01-17-2009, 10:44 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

I want one on my rustler for high speed runs need to read up about them some more tho.
Old 01-17-2009, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

I'm quoted the 2009RRB, why would that apply to anything other than racing?

I suppose only in a de-facto sort of way, ROAR can try to stop the technology from spreading like they did with Brushless or LiPo until only recently. Ie. by retaliating against companies that design and market these products (no equipment approvals for them) and such. But in reality all they ended up doing was delaying it by a few years, and brought them one step closer to irrelevant since tracks were starting to go their own way, in spite of the rules.

But on the individual level, especially where the technology already exists and is already out there, they can't really do much other than disqualify or maybe blacklist you if you get caught with it. Unless you signed a contract agreeing to the rules or something like that.

BTW do you feel the gyro 'holds you back' in any way? Ie. are there manuevers you could do without the gyro that the gyro restricts now? Or is it all good / an improvement?
Old 01-17-2009, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

There is no state or federal law concerning the use of traction/stability control devices in your privately owned RC vehicle. He meant it's illegal for racing in sanctioned events.

Why bring up the legality of such a thing though, when we're talking about using it for bashing?
Old 01-17-2009, 11:09 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

^^ That's what I thought, lol, but it'd probably be pretty funny to actually get in trouble for having traction control while bashing.
Old 01-17-2009, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

ORIGINAL: Access

I'm quoted the 2009RRB, why would that apply to anything other than racing?

I suppose only in a de-facto sort of way, ROAR can try to stop the technology from spreading like they did with Brushless or LiPo until only recently. Ie. by retaliating against companies that design and market these products (no equipment approvals for them) and such. But in reality all they ended up doing was delaying it by a few years, and brought them one step closer to irrelevant since tracks were starting to go their own way, in spite of the rules.

But on the individual level, especially where the technology already exists and is already out there, they can't really do much other than disqualify or maybe blacklist you if you get caught with it. Unless you signed a contract agreeing to the rules or something like that.

BTW do you feel the gyro 'holds you back' in any way? Ie. are there manuevers you could do without the gyro that the gyro restricts now? Or is it all good / an improvement?
Oh ok, I thought you had quoted that law thing from like some FCC kind of thing, didn't know it was a ROAR thing.

And yes, I believe the gyro could hold back many things. For instance if you are the kind of person who likes to drive aggressively and have a looser feel with your RC's setup, the gyro could prevent much of that loose feeling. It could also prevent your car from doing a "powerslide" even if you wanted it to. I could see how a gyro would be very beneficial in something such as a large 1/5 RC that needs to be kept stable, as well as on road cars could probably handle even better with a gyro. But for just bashing in an offroad environment, for someone who wants a little more control over their RC without spending extra money on different tires or other items for setup, a cheap heli gyro seems like it would be the perfect way to go.

I may have to try this in my E-Maxx with a cheap heli gyro but mount it another way and plug it into the throttle channel and see if it can help prevent constant wheelies.
Old 01-17-2009, 11:53 PM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

I would try it myself too if there was, say, a way to tie the gyro to a third channel so it could be switched on and off at will.
Old 01-18-2009, 12:01 AM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm


ORIGINAL: Access

I would try it myself too if there was, say, a way to tie the gyro to a third channel so it could be switched on and off at will.
That would be cool to shut it off and on remotely, but it seems like you would need a gyro that had a remote on/off setup built into it, otherwise you couldn't really turn it off or on remotely.

eaterofdog, would you be willing to try positioning the gyro differently and report back with the results if it prevented wheelies or "better traction" of the line? Would be cool to know if it worked.
Old 01-18-2009, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

Do you guys think it'll work with just the stock traxxas reciever's third channel? I would guess not.. something about the output in the first post threw me off, so that's why I'm asking.
Old 01-18-2009, 12:26 AM
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Default RE: RC helicopter gyro as drift control system on E Firestorm

I am getting one to try on a slash. My friend has one from a blade 400 he will probably give me or let me borrow. It is a heading lock gyro also.

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