lilbooger

This is our slash video if that says anything
[link=http://www.socal-rc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338]official socal-rc.com bash video[/link]

FoamyVictim

Wow, this reminds me SO mush of the T-spec. Anyone know what that is?.... Yeah, exactly. Spec classes rarely last, and often simply dissolve when something that performs better comes along. The root of your problem is simple. You like "Scale" over "Performance". Simply put, the performance driven machine will outperform the better looking one. So when you go to a race track, do you say "I want a car like that, it looks so cool" Or do you say "what type of car was the winner driving?" In a RACE, it's the winner, not the better looking car. AE built a winner, Losi will likely follow suit, and thus you have the eventual death of the slash class. I'm happy it happened(not the end of slash racing, the fact that it brought new faces to the track). But like any other bashing toy, it just pales in comparison to the racers, and people want to go FAST on a race track. If you guys have fun with it, COOL!... that's what it's for. If you want to race and be competitive, you need a purpose built car.

ArancioC5

Guys I understand what racing is about....... what I am saying is that by AE making a more purpose built truck it takes the FUN away from what the class was about. We will have to agree to dis agree because some people take R/C racing very seriously (I would if I were racing 1/8 buggy/ truggy if I were sponsored) but people make this hobby more serious then it has to be.

I do this for fun, and if I'm not buying r/c, then I'm putting money into mods for my 1:1 car, or whatever lures me into spending hard earned money. If I want to buy a performance R/C it certainly wont look like a CORR truck. It will be a deformed super performing car/truck that we have all become accustomed to since the early 90's in this hobby. Either way, I'm sure people will find a way to make CORR-looking trucks a serious class and again alienate more people from this hobby and when more and more hobby shops close... you might then get the point.

Traxxas has the right idea, get people in the door and let the hobby grow by showing what fun you can have without it getting so serious, expensive, and over whelming. The reason this hobby does not grow at the rate it can is because everything is so competitive that it shuts the door on so many looking to get in. The arrogance is unbelievable.

Well, I'm done knocking AE for being envious of Traxxas, I think I'll go run my Slash in the rain because my 5 times more expensive HPI cant handle it

Alpha Male

My Feedback: (11)

Here is what 1:10 CORR trucks come down to, from most critical to least (IMO); durability, performance and then scale appearance. My Slash has gone through MANY pinion and spur gears (until I went with hardened steel), the stock shock caps popped off repeatedly (until I upgraded), hinge pins constantly backed out (until I replaced them with hardened steel captured pins) hub carriers broke (until I replaced them with aluminum), outdrive yokes wore out and broke (until I installed CVDs) and of course the brushes fell out of the original Titan motor within the first three weeks (now I use a Novak 6.5). For my own pleasure, I also replaced many of the plastic parts with aluminum including the chassis, arms, bulkhead, turnbuckles etc. and I use 1:8 scale adapters with Crimefighter tires. The point is that my 'Slash' is a fast, great performing BEAST now, but look what it took to get it that way. [sm=greedy.gif].

I bought and built the SC10 last Friday and it out-drives my Slash using just a Velineon brushless system. Looking at the arms and a few other parts on the SC10, I can predict what will probably break, but the thing is so light that it seems to float over the jumps. It is already fast and great performing.

So now, I have a tank of a Slash to drive with my idiot friends (who always seem to hit me) and a smooth SC10 to race with normal people. Each has its own place. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

FoamyVictim

I think the Slash class should stand alone. That way, all the new people can come and have a good time. The AE and whatever comes out, will be in a separate class. The problem is, that once people see how much faster/better handling the new trucks are/have; the slash won't be so appealing. I would like it if the new people stayed in that slash class, because some of us are there for the competition, not the way the car looks. Once they become regulars, $50 says they don't stick with just a slash... Chances are, they're eyeballin their next race car that first race day.

You speak of "alienation" but every new guy that comes to our track(and I bet others are the same) the other racers help him where they can. I've given people all sorts of parts to keep them in the race. That's a HUGE part of why I'm in this hobby, the camaraderie. Or do you mean that by buying and upgrading to better cars, it results in your old "scale" car becoming outdated? That's just the nature of the beast. Once you start racing, people look for ways to go faster, like the guy that posted right after you.

Sure, racers come off as elitists online, maybe there's a guy at your local track that acts that way. But the truth of the matter is, I bet more people stay away from tracks just because of what they read online. Most of the new guys that show up, just happened to drive by one day and see a race, they didn't hear about it online. I don't think you should characterize racers that way. Besides, it really IS as serious as you make it. I'm one of those guys that gets serious, because I want to compete. These guys(my competitors) are all basically chums! We poke fun at each other, talk smack, tell jokes... then cuss under our breath as we race!

Racers aren't big'ole jerks, we just sound that way online!

The slash won't die, but like all Race Classes, it will grow and change. Otherwise... we'd all be racing the Frog!

Access

True words, I see this in many other hobbies too. Many people don't seem to understand what club racing is all about. I don't think it's arrogance, though, people are rarely unkind or overbearing at the track. It's just a lack of long-term vision the type of vision that asks 'where are we going to be 3 months, 6 months, and a year from now' and acts today accordingly. If you're going to do something that suddenly makes the vehicle that 90% of the racers in a class have no longer a competitor if you're going to force that 90% to upgrade to compete or 'drop out of the running', then you're going to lose a lot of people there. In the end, whoever manages the track and the classes has got to make the right decisions, not the knee-jerk ones based on what ROAR wants, what one of two of the most competitive/skilled racers want, what mirrors the Nat's, but more what what's best for the (club) track in the long term.

FoamyVictim

What's best for the long term, is what keeps people coming back. A poor handling car that cannot be upgraded is NOT that; more like a way to get people started. Most people that raced the slash class here, almost immediately started making plans for their next Race Car. They didn't look at another Traxxas, they didn't even look at something similar to the slash... they looked at the 8th scales. [8D]

As for making cars obsolete, that's just the nature of the beast when it comes to racing. People don't want cars that are cool to stare at, they want cars that go fast! That's what racing is about, it's not a concourse show. If that's what you want to do, then create a "Scale Class" or something. Spec classes rarely survive. I always ask people on the other side of the argument, "ever heard of a T-spec?" So far, 100% of them said "What's a T-spec?" to which I reply... "Exactly my point!" Nobody knows what they are, because all the people that bought them, saw the others racing BETTER cars! They sold that clunker(or gave it to some other poor noob) and bought a real racer.

The Slash class was doomed from the get-go, but it sure was a nice way to bring new faces to the track.

ob1n

My Feedback: (14)

It is true.....we are going to have to agree to disagree. I've seen both sides to this story in my 30+ years of being part of racing and this hobby.

I've seen the time when everything was "cheap" and "equal" to one another. Everyone bought their vehicles and raced for a season and had loads of FUN! Then, the next season, some individuals moved "up" to a better car/truck. They weren't cheating.....they just got a better vehicle/equipment. They blew everyone away and, thus, nobody was showing up for races anymore. Why? Cause the losers were paying their entrances fees to LOSE. Not because they couldn't drive....but because they were out-classed by the better vehicles. No body was having fun except the winners. But, suddenly the guys with the fancy cars stopped having fun because they were only racing 2-4 other people that actually showed up at the track. Before you know it, the track ceased to exist. Now, NOBODY is having fun.

A few years go by and someone comes up with the idea of starting a track......and the process starts all over again. This is definitely more apparent in smaller communities like I am from but it happens everywhere. The only way to avoid this process is to be in a club large enough that has some serious die-hards that still make it interesting to race even when participation is low.

I agree with the original "idea" of the the author of this forum and why he chose to write about it. I've always dreamed of having a bunch of basher-style vehicles racing each other. I totally agree....this is where you see the thrills, spills and FUN. This is where the beginners think they have a chance of competing with their talent AND wallet. Of course, some will want to move on to bigger/better things. Good for them!!!! But, if we don't keep classes like this open for the beginners and people that don't want to change(at least, for a while).....bad for us(long term).

The more 'common people' we have in beginner-style fun races....the better the action, prizes and track atomosphere for all of us throughout the ranks.

I have all the R/C vehicles you can possibly name.....and each serves it's purpose. However, without any doubt in my mind, I have the most fun watching/driving the 'bashers' when they/we mix it up on the track than when I drive my 'high-class' AE/Kyosho.

The high end cars/trucks fly farther, jump higher, go faster, are more stable and smooth sailing. But, really.....why do you watch real, 1:1 racing events?!?!?!? For the CRASHES!!!!! For the bumping and scrapin!!! When the news media shows the race highlights, what do you see? Do you see the boring lap-after-lap, same-ol-smooth sailing? Yeah, maybe ONE clip! Then they point out the wrecks, crashes, breakage and excitement. And, finally, they show the victory lap or winners circle clip of bubbling champange. But 90% of race coverage is what we wanna see.

The comment was made about "T-Spec" and/or "Spec Classes". Well....believe it or not.....we all run some sort of spec class. Even the 'modified' classes are somewhat spec. In R/C racing, they are predominantly AE or Losi. Sure, they have different motors, batteries, engines, fuels, tires, etc.... But, so does NASCAR, NHRA, CORR, etc.. Yet, they all have the same rules to follow and run similar platforms. And let's not forget grass roots racing is all about 'Spec'! Without it......nobody will even try to race unless they've got a deep wallet and too much time on their hands. Plus, there are many variations out there as well.....like NHRA has 'Bracket' racing. Bottom line, they are trying to allow ANYONE a fair chance to race and win with an affordable entry fee. Within this class, you can go home with a victory with your mom's minivan.

So, while I agree with the 'idea' behind this post.....I think AE did not do anything wrong with building the SC10. The 'trick' is to get as many people as possible to join and STAY with us. Imagine if we had so many in this hobby that we could race in several classes in one day/night of racing? For example, I could race my Stampede in the basher class, my Ultima in the modified buggy, my T4 in the stock stadium.....and, maybe even run my Frog in a vintage class?!!!!?!?! And do all this anytime I want within that day's race. How could I get bored of that?

It's up to us....the consumer....to decide what we can do together to make racing better as a whole. Without each other, the only thing we can do is race the clock(and believe me, I've done a ton of that over the years).

Thanks for bringing up this issue....and I see we've got a lot of good feedback either way. I don't think the answer is one way or another. However, I feel a solution that would benefit the hobby for the long term would include a plan to makes sure there is always a fair, cost effective and FUN way to allow beginners(and veterans) to pace themselves at their leisure towards racing the 'high-end' machines. Or....like me, to do both at the same time.

Ob1n

FoamyVictim

If you dramatically limit any class, you pretty much put the last nail in the coffin. Even in the other classes, you can run whatever tire you want, as long as it's within a certain size. Same thing with engines, you can run any number of different brands, styles, different numbers of ports and configurations, etc... as long as it's a .21 The V-spec puts out allot more power than the VG, but guess what. I ran CIRCLES around a guy with the V-spec, utilizing my lowly and CHEAP VG! You could do the same with this class, but then all the die hard scale people will flip out, because they can't keep up with even the worst driver, due to the fact they have really crappy but "scale" tires. [>:]

I think there should be a distinction; a bone stock spec class for all the "scale" die hards, and an SC class for everyone that wants to RACE. 3 guesses as to which one will last longer.

Access

Social evolution at its finest, the clubs and tracks that make good decisions live on and grow, the ones that make bad decisions die off.

Perception is a very important thing to racers. You are perfectly right that most racers will not enter a race that they think they have no chance of winning. Ultimately what survives is a sport based on skill, not one based on having the best and newest gear. The latter may be great for the corporations, but it is not so for the players.

And that's what slash racing is at many tracks. Half the racers are just 'showboating', they're just trying to take the biggest, most spectacular jumps, the most awesome powerslides and all that. Many people use technique that is just awful from a racing point of view. The races might not start out that way, everyone thinks they have a chance to win in the beginning. But a minute or two into the race, the people that are behind figure 'why not', inevitably they start to play to the crowd, showing off whatever stunts they can do or ultimately failing, but failing with a big smile on their face. You don't see that in the ultra-competitive races where the trucks are thinned-down, graphite-laden chassis that can break in one major mishap.

The announcer, the music, etc. and the crowd. They all encourage this kind of stuff.

Returning to my point about social evolution, the wisest thing for a club to do is to run both classes, a 'slash-only near stock' class and an open class. Let time, and people, decide which class survives. And maybe they both do just fine, there could be a synergistic relationship between the two. This is club racing, and no one wins if the club dies off.

suburban_hooligan

i thought the point of a CORR truck was to have a realistic looking truck. the real CORR trucks are purpose built as race trucks. its only natural the RC version would fallow suit. AE went as far as to get licensing for body’s, rims, and tires to make a truck that looks like a shrunk down real truck. it is the more realistic looking of the RC CORR trucks on the market right know. all the SC10 does is broadening the horizons of a CORR style truck by letting real racers partake in the craze. it’s as if a lot of you somehow think a race truck can’t be fun. not all of us get our kicks by showing off and hucking our trucks through obstacles hoping for the best and if you crash, oh well at least it was cool. some of us get our fun by driving over obstacles as fast as we can under compete control and trying not to crash as if we do crash, we get kind of pissed. and know with the addition of the SC10 we have a truck for both types of hobbyists.

as long as the body’s rims and tires stay realistic looking where’s the problem?

04DarkShadowGT

Drove my SC10 today for the first time, I can tell you for sure that it is so much better than the slash its not funny. I am glad I made the switch. Yes its more $$, but not a ton. I understand some newbies dont want to build the car, but what better way to learn about how to repair it if you put it together to begin with.

I mean how many of us have some spare electronics laying around, even if you dont you can get a whole setup for not alot.

Here is my setup

SC10 - $155 from hobbypeople
blue bird servo from hobbycity
Losi 2.4ghz receiver
Losi exelorion brushless

Now I had all these electronics already, but you could get everything pretty cheap if you look around ebay and other places.

ArancioC5

$155 is a very very decent price, and if it were tough like the slash I'd give it a chance for only a buck fifty myself. I appreciate that AE has gone a bit further then traxxas to make it real looking (the tires however are WAY too big for the body..looks stubby), and trust me, I'm no stranger to AE or performance/ racing.

I like that the Slash drives like ass Real Corr trucks are not as loose but they are not as tight handling as the sc10.

Access, and Ob1n.... thanks for the posts, I think you put things better then I did as I always post late at night after a 14 hour work day. My point at the end of the day is that R/C tends to eat itself by making too many flavor of the weeks. I for one would like to see a lot less rehashing the same product (like ford anf GM do) and make less, but awesome products from cheap to uber expensive.

Racers arent snobby, don't think that is what i was saying about arrogance, it is felt over the internet more then in the flesh. With that said, more newbies find r/c on the internet and NOT by going into a LHS. A kid on my street that is about 11-13 saw me running my Savage Flux the other day and was absolutely impressed. So impressed he called his father over and he proceeded to ask me how much it cost. Well, I told him how much and WHY mine was and his face immediately changed in shock (horror?). This is no money strapped father either, the thing is that he was still shocked when I ran to my house to show him the Slash that was 5 times less.

You see we NEED new blood in this hobby for it to develop properly, not by trying to get people for "new tech/kits" as often as possible. What the hobby ends up doing is selling more used kits on ebay then new ones, and losing LHS to the internet sales too. If parents need to spend $3-400.00 just to get their kids into the hobby with BASIC stuff, how can we grow as a community? How can we get kids to skip the PS3 that looks high tech and get the plastic based toy car instead? It's not easy trust me, and the Slash did get SOME of those kids into the LHS instead of toys r us so we CANT as a hobby turn our backs on a product that rejuvinated r/c WHILE being in a poor economy. Anyway, no one will be 100% right or wrong in this discussion. If you want to go fast, don't race a CORR truck....... go race an on road r/c car and see what real toy car performance is all about

ElectricGuy007

Yeah I agree, that's why I got a Losi 1/10 Slider instead.
I raced dirt oval for the first time last night, and it's been the most fun I've had in a long time. I couldnt believe I pulled 70 laps in 6 minutes.
I bumped up from the D main to the C main so I got to race 4 times last night.
People still show up with slashes to run on the oval, but I have not seen one SC10 yet.
People that like the slash will stay with the slash because it's cheap racing.

I'm gonna wait and see if any other companies make one, there is a rumor going around HPI is gonna make one based on thier E-firestorm.
If they do I'll get that one instead, because my e-firestorm has been in many races that T4's have broke on. I just dont want to get an
SC10 and end up spending more on the truck than what I payed for it.

04DarkShadowGT

I guess durable is in the the driver, it would be just as durable for anyone who can actually drive even a little. Dont hit posts or cars and dont jump off roofs and it will be just as durable.

But onto the tires, they are the exact same size as the traxxas ones. Not sure how they look much different. I will say they are a helluva lot better tire, that is for sure.


Real Corr trucks don't drive like ass, if anything the SC10 is more realistic. But NEITHER are realistic really. One is a rustler/stampede with a new chassis and a few parts and the other is just a stretched T4 with bumpers.

Motographer

I'd disagree with the assertion that the SC10 will ruin short course R/C. Granted, it is based on a more "developed" chassis than the Slash, i.e. the T4, but in my mind, the main limitation of S/C trucks is tires. We had an SC10 run in the Slash class at the club I race with last saturday, and it only finished 5th or so out of 8 (i think) trucks. It's still down to the driver, and the tires. If people start running really soft option tires like the pro-lines, then there goes the neighborhood, but since it's been well-established that more power mainly gets you more spins, I'd say it's still the driver's game.

walkerNCST

Congzilla

Don't you think Traxxas is fully capable of making a track special truck that could dominate?

No, no I do not.

Congzilla

And walkerNCST you are aware the SC10 rtr is actually about $20 cheaper than the Slash right? As far as them being allowed in the same class, that is a mistake, unless they are all running the same motors.

FieroMan121

My Feedback: (2)

ya know whats funny about this argument, we race the slash and the sc10rtr in the "cheater class" (also have a spec class)and when race time comes, its a toss up, the sc10 is a good car but on the track its tires have just as little traction as the slash, so really all that speed is wasted when the track dries up under the florida sun, nobody races those classes to win (at my track anyway, we have a different atmosphere), its intended as a fun class, and people treat it as such, we even had a guy win running backwards! so really, this argument is pointless, it comes down to the driver in the end.

FoamyVictim

You NAILEDit! Couldn't have put it better myself.

CORRmain, Slashes and SC10s, mixed motors, etc... We all have a GREATtime. The Slash AND the SC10 have brought beople to the track. Some are veterans that got away from the hobby, others are brand new. We all enjoy the race, and don't NEED it to be precisely fair, because the difference in driving skills would remain. We are planning to run a Spec Slash Class along side the CORR class, but we'll all run at once so we can rub fenders with MOREDRIVERS! J Lap can separate the classes automatically, so teh "Spec" guys can win amongst themselves, and "can't" feel bad for losing to an SC10...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvVjnIA9rR4[/youtube]

FoamyVictim

Here, check out the practice, 2 Slashes and 2 SC10s:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHncJI681Xw[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0sawZXlX8[/youtube]

FieroMan121

My Feedback: (2)

ill have to get up some vids of my track (considering im in charge of that), its an old track but the oval club that took over has drawn alot of new faces, we have the slash class setup in cheater (semi open) and spec, with spec we have a 3600mah pack limit so we have guys who race back to back between races with the same truck, just different packs and both races have even on a slow day 10 ppl a class with atleast 5 that run both.

derek2005

I have to disagree with this. I am sure that if Traxxas wanted to cater to racers, they could do that without a problem. They don't even try. Their market is Joe American Basher and thank god for them. They have kept RC more in the mainstream. I didn't see an Associated product in Alvin and the Chipmunks. Traxxas spends a lot of effort to sell great products to masses of people. The masses aren't racing.


On the thread topic. I don't believe that the SC10 will kill the class. I believe the class will just run it's coarse. In the meantime, many many people will be introduced to RC and racing and that is good for the hobby and eventually good for racing. People will get their feet wet in this class and then see how awesome the race rigs handle and move up to them when possible. They will make new relationships with fellow racers and grow the hobby.

My personal opinion about the slash VS SC10: I watched the slashes race last night and I have never enjoyed watching racing so much. These trucks take a beating, bounce around the track, and have a realistic driving style. I want one. I want my son to have one so he can start racing. There was at least one SC10 in the Slash Mod class. It was driven by one of the best drivers at the club (and the club owner) and he won the mod class. The biggest difference was his truck settled quicker (was less bouncy) and he was able to be on throttle more. He is also a great driver. He probalby could have won the class with a Slash. None of the other guys were jealous or mad about him runnng the SC10. They were impressed with its handling, but they aren't running out to get one. They all had fun and they enjoy their slashes. A couple of guys even have the light kits on them. Let me tell you how cool that is seeing the trucks go around with working break lights and headlights. Good stuff. Long story short, I don't care which you drive or which your track caters to. Thanks to Traxxas for getting the ball rolling on this category and opening racing up to more people. I think I would rather drive the slash because I can beat it up at home with my kids and then take it to the track and race competitively with others (even SC10s). It will give me another class to race without dropping $400-$500. I like the SC10 looks better, but I already have a B4 and I want a different type of thing to drive.

Run what you like, have fun. If you want to keep a pure class, keep everyone's interest in it. Keep it fun, and get youth involved.

overrev

   The slash at the track I go to still out sells the sc10 and is a bigger class than the sc10 mod class.