Does anyone know of a good flight sim that is Mac compatible and will run on OSX? I really wanted the GP Real Flight sim but it only runs on windows. And since I refuse to stoop as low as to buy a PC I'll have to find one that will run on a Mac. Does anyone Know of a descent sim that will run on a Mac and where I can get it?

This has been covered. Do a search for "Mac" in the flight simulator forum.

Dave Segal

LOL stoop to the level of running a pc LOL ... that is exactly why i will not own a mac... PC has WAY more software titles.......
owning a mac is like the people that thought betamax would cauch on better than VHS.... :stupid:

you could always get a Windows Simulator to run on the Mac. Then you could run Windows made software.

Ok, I know this topic never gets good reviews...PC vs Mac's. Just a few points thou. There are over 6500 software titles for the Macintosh. There's just no market for a flight sim on the mac. Not cost effective right now. As for me. If you want to play "video games" Buy a PS2, or XBox. All I know is when I turn my laptop on....it works! What a concept! I use Windows at work, and Mac's at home. We have nothing but problems with PC's here at work. I got my first Mac in '97. I have ONE hardware problem with an old laptop, and NEVER any software problem.

As for the beta vs VHS. Its a well know fact beta had much better quality. It just never took off. Just because the "market" carries one product more. Doesn’t meant another is more or less superior. Apple has always been Microsoft's R&D department. [8D]

Gentlemen:

No one who has any degree of familiarity with the two systems will say VHS is a better system than Betamax. Sony's marketing killed Beta, their failure to license it guaranteed its death in the market.

In the case of Apple and the Mac, Apple did try licensing, but the all-round superior PC won in the market. Yes, there are some things a Mac does extremely well, but overall the faults of the Windows systems are not as great as their general advantages.

If you want a truly superior machine find a late Amiga.

If you Mac owners want to make a contribution to the world, donate your Macs for use in building artificial reefs. Maybe iMac owners should not respond - the colors might scare the fish away.

Haw.

Bill.

Oh Please!!!

If you really know the evolution of computers. You would know, at one time. Mac's did out pace PC's. The only think that hurt Apple, was Apple. Too greedy. Over time, this has been a "catch 22" for them. For the very thing they would not let go of. The operating system, or OS. Is the very thing that make Apples so great. They design, control, and make the hardware. And OS. Apple has created more to today's digital revolution that Microsoft ever will, or has. Any one see 60 minutes last Sunday? Andy Rooney slammed Bill Gate's and Microsoft pretty good for their software, and lack of easy to use. And no, he's not a Mac guy.

PS: My Dell at work would make a great door stop, or better yet. A boat anchor

Ken:

I lived through it. I first worked with EDPM in 1956, had my first "Home" computer in 1972, a Litton/ABS 1241 mini. That was three years before the Altair, and four years before the Apple II.

And the Mac line never outsold the Intel based machines, but the Apple II was, if not the top seller, was close to it in the late 70s and early 80s. Mainly because of VisiCalc and games.

Steve Wozniak did indeed design a really good machine, when Ken Williams (Sierra On-Line) developed GDL with its fast page flipping the games took off, the CP/M (Intel) machines couldn't match it. But it was still something to be kept at home. Business? Don't be silly.

Then came VisiCalc. A revolution that put the Apple II in the business of business. And it didn't run on anything but an Apple II. Apple sales skyrocketed.

Then came dBase II and WordStar for the Intel machines. Now the CP/M machines started eating into Apple's lead. dBase II and WordStar didn't run on Apple until Billy Gates and Paul Allen, wanting to sell to Apple II owners also, produced their only hardware product, the "Language Card," that plugged into the Apple II and ran CP/M, and software intended for CP/M machines.

Then IBM entered the market. CP/M disappeared as an operating system, and the Gates/Allen/Microsoft juggernaut became dominant. And Lotus 1-2-3 hammered the nails in the coffin. Apple was out of the business market, the IBM/Intel software was superior, by far.

Applde tried to retain their business market share with the Apple III, I shouldn't have to tell you about that fiasco. The Lisa? Overpriced and incapable.

Apple's error was keeping the operating system closed. The Apple II was a completely open system, and everybody in the world wrote software for it. PC/MSdos is also an open system, easy to program to, and the market made it a much more common system that Apple OS.

Look at Linux. Another open system, that is constantly growing in its market penetration.

It may be too late for Apple and the Macs, but I think they have a greater probability of survival if they open their system and aggressively attempt to license it. Otherwise they will most likely wither on the vine, as the diehards die out Apple also will die. Just like the Commodore Amiga, another excellent machine that didn't make it.

Bill.


PS: Somebody posted (you?) saying Apple was MickeySoft's R&D department - Not so. Apple's Mac systems and WinDoze are both rewrites/ports of software developed by Xerox. Even the Mouse was the invention of a fellow named Englebart, around 1961. I'll grant that Apple stole the ideas before Billy Gates did, though. wr.

Bill:

Very Good Sir. Yes, I know about Xerox. And glad to hear (see) you do to. Not many people know that Xerox have the "vision" long before Steve Job's and Bill Gates. Its just too bad as with a lot of companies. Upper management didn't share that "vision" with them.

As for the rest. I see you have knowledge, and a long time of experience. We're not worthy!!!! I truly try to avoid these conversations, but sometimes people just think "the world according to Microsoft" is a good thing. Don't get me wrong, Microsoft has done some wonderful things too. But so has Apple.

I will respectfully disagree with your thoughts on Apple going away. Their "vision" of a digital world, and the products and software to support its seems right on the mark. Email, pictures, making movies and home DVD's. And now their solution to the Music wars over downloading music. Apple's iPod and iTunes (for Windows too) are flying off the shelves in records speed. From everywhere around the world. Time magazine just called it "Invention of the Year" http://www.time.com/time/2003/inventions/invmusic.html

And then there's the new OS X (Operating System 10). Completely rebuilt for the older Macintosh systems. And built on UNIX. As you would know. UNIX is a very "stable" OS as OS's go. I also believe OS X is an "Open Standard". http://www.apple.com/macosx/architecture/

Bottom line (for me). There is room for two kinds of "PC's". The biz environment has taken the Wintell machine just fine. And as I noted in an earlier post. I do use them at work, and know my way around them. For my home life. The only answer (for me) is Macintosh. Their products and software for pictures and making home movies of the kids and family is very easy, and very user friendly. Along with emails and surfing....of course.

Well enough sir. I do need to go back to work!!!

Thx...

f2titan, don't bother arguing Macs and PCs with Bill. Bill and I have gone over it a few times, and he's not willing to learn. Not having any real Macintosh experience, he has no concept of what he is missing.

Bill, you really should be less selective with your facts.

The only fact that's relevent here is that there are no modern RC sims available for the Mac. That's unfortunate, and there's an untapped market out there. The best solution out there right now is to buy a PC for RC sims and games. I've got a P4 set up with a KVM switch, so it doesn't take up much room on my desk. I do the vast majority of my computing on the Mac, and only switch over to the PC for diversions. With the KVM it only takes a push of the button to flip over.

Running things such as RC sims in emulation is not recommended.

MikeL:

It is not that I am unwilling to learn, it is that the more I learn about the late Macs the less I like them. And 99.999% of the previous objections still obtain. Several of which I have detailed in our prior chats.

Selective reporting of facts? Get real. Of course I'm selective. As you are as well, arguing your side of the discussion. When you are defending Apple you will not mention that in a Windoze box you can get equivalent power, both hardware and software, for a fraction of Apple's price. And I wont mention the gaudy colors that distract you from the Mac's disadvantages.

Haw.

Dave Brown had a version of his simulator that ran on the Apple II, the controller plugged right into the game port. Is there really no sim for the Mac? Surprising.

Bill.

Ok. I'll pitch in once more. Hey, we're just having good clean fun here....right.

Bill you wrote "When you are defending Apple you will not mention that in a Windoze box you can get equivalent power, both hardware and software, for a fraction of Apple's price. "

Apple prices are very competitive. Show me any complete "PC" that will burn DVD's for $1099.00? Look at Apple's eMac. I don't know of any? http://www.apple.com/emac/

Also, taken from today's Forbes.com. A research firm said, "We don't think there is any more creative company in the world than Apple."

Bill. Have you "test drove" OS X?

what was the SUBJECT of the question

Ken:

HP branded AMD Athlon at 2.4 gigs clock, 512M ram, SVGA (video memory not specified), CD/DVD burner, 56k modem, 3 1/2 floppy, speakers, monitor, mouse, and keyboard. Windows XP home edition and Windoze Works. AOL subscription. HP inkjet printer. Everything but an Ethernet card for broadband. $799. Visit Walmart. It's in the mail-out flyer.

No, I've not run a machine with OS X, but a short time playing with it wouldn't be a fair test anyway. I have run under CTSS, ITSS, RPG, Music, almost all flavors of Unix and the various shells for it, and a couple versions of Linux. Not to mention starting in micros with nothing but a monitor program, working my way through CP/M 1.0 up to 2.2 - never got CP/M 3.0 but I did have CP/M-86 on my Xerox 8/16. And I've had several Apple IIs in various versions, never a IIgs though, and never a Lisa or Mac. I even had a fully loaded Franklin, with the language card, of course.

Have you ever used a Lisp Machine? Makes the Apollos look like trash, but Sun beat the pooh out of Lisp in the market. The best machine does not always win.

And you have still not addressed the blindness caused by the iMac colors. Haw.

Finally, I really hope it's all in fun. Or at least being done in a fun manner.

Bill.

PS: In a different world I could well be a Mac fan, and you could be the diehard Intel user. wr.

Less selective is what I said, Bill.


Actually, you can't. Particularly in terms of software, where you have to spend several hundred dollars to reach an equivalent set of features that Apple includes out of the box--yet you still won't have the high level of integration that makes Apple's products so appealing. You should really look into it, as I've been urging you to do. You may find yourself surprised. I know you're not the type to spend hundreds on things such as digital cameras, digital video, and music, but many consumers are. You are, however, a pretty creative guy and I'd think you would be quite impressed at just how easy Apple has made it for the average consumer to really get something tangible out of their computer beyond home finance, e-mail, and web use.

Your comment about colors isn't helping your argument. Apple hasn't produced anything in bright colors for some time.

Not really, given the size of the RC sim market and the Mac market. Great Planes sells Real Flight for hundreds not because that's what the market will bear, but rather because the market is so small and they have to find a price point that allows them to see some return on their investment. It's a less complex program than most of the $50 games you can buy, but it's not likely to sell 50,000+ copies.

In general, a $50 game has to sell at least 10-20,000 copies to make a Mac port economically viable. I'd imagine that figure is somewhat representative to what the number of sales required to support porting something like Real Flight to the Mac. I have no idea as to whether or not GP has explored the idea, but I'd think it's more viable now that there's a USB controller interface. Back when RF was developed there were no parallel or game ports on Macs, and the installed base of USB-enabled computers was too low to make it a viable product.

Yes Bill. This is all in fun.

I went to Wal-Mart’s web site. I saw no "PC's" anywhere near the price you quoted. All in that $ range were DVD-ROM drive. I see nothing that will Burn DVD's. I supported my clam with a web link, please show me a link to any complete system with comp, or better spec's than Apple's eMac. And will Burn (not read-only) DVD's. Oh yes, please make sure it comes with 3 USB ports, 2 FireWire ports, Modem Port, and a 10/100BASE-T Ethernet port too.

Even if you could fine me (us) a link, I think Mike summed it up nicely. You'll have to spend big $$$ for good (high-end) software to make and burn high end, high quality DVD's, movies, photo albums, MP's players, etc... So no. Your really not spending more $$. In fact, I would say you spending more $$$ to by a "PC". And again, Apple's is right out of the box, loaded, and ready to run.

Its true what Mike noted about the colors. All Mac's these days are white, titanium, or brushed aluminum looking. (Note: I think there are no more Titanium PowerBooks). But still. What was wrong with putting a little "color" in ones life? A little "style". Do they all have to be boring sand, or black looking? Bill, please don't tell me you ware the same color of clothes each day!!!! Just kidding my friend

Mike also noted the USB port issue. Good point. Oh, who invented USB? Hum..............oh yes, that would be Apple. Along with today’s very fast "FireWire". Coming to most PC"s soon.

As for OS X. Bill with your noted UNIX history, I would think you'd be in "PC" (I mean Mac) heaven. Its built on UNIX. Open the terminal, and type away!!! Please review this site: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/

Bill. Again no real answers, but not bad reading...


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...21/bs_nf/22738

Ken:

It's an argument without a real solution, because there are good points on both sides. Or I suppose there are some good ones for the Macs. Haw.

Still fun to rag each other, so long as it's just ragging.

Bill.

I'm only a semi-oldtimer in the computer world. I started on a IBM XT with of all things a 4 color CGA monitor and a 10MB hard drive. Unless you count Atari 400, Comodore Vic 20's and other weird stuff. I'm really jealous of the Macs just because they aren't ruled by micro$oft and it's endless stream of patches, bugs, exploits, viruses, and worms. I guess that's one advantage Apple has with it's lack of availible software. The virus/worm/hackers don't want to support OSX either... I've been a computer tech for 15 years. I'm authorized on HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Fujitsu, and a few more. MCSE.. And with all my "knowlege" I feel really bad when a mac person wants me to help them. Most times all I can give them is a dumb look and point them to someplace that will charge them an arm and a leg. Oh well. Maybe Linux will dethrone micro$oft. Lord knows someone must be able to do a better job. - Joe

Joe. What title are, or would you be looking for? There are thousands of software titles avalble for the Mac.

To put this back on topic. How about G2, or FMS? Ever been to a computer show, and saw an acre of cheap Windoze software, and barely anything for Macs? It's just nice to have the choices, not like you really need any of them. How is the selection of software on Download.com for PC vs Mac? Virtual PC is a wonderful Windows emulator for the Mac, but I'm happy I don't need it. I bet it would run FMS or G2 though. Then again, how would you hook your radio to a mac? Not much support for that either is there? - Joe

Joe:

FMS might run on a PC emulator, but G2 is very picky, wont even run on many of the available video cards in a PC when everything else is right.

Bill.

Having a bit of experience with VirtualPC, I don't believe it would provide a good experience. It's not designed for high frame rate games that implement a lot of DirectX routines. That's just not what is is made for. If you're willing to spend a couple of hundred dollars on the software, why not spend it instead on a used/older PC that'll run FMS much better?

The only area in which I feel the Mac is laking software is in RC sims (dental administrative software used to be a big one, but that's being developed now). I've been using Macs for about 10 years now, and have never suffered from any lack of available software. Where as I don't have the choice between, say, 20 different applications (15 of which are horribly flawed products) I generally have a choice between 3-5 quality pieces of software for any given application. www.versiontracker.com is an outstanding source of information on available applications and updates (it also incorporates Windows and Palm, and is much preferable to download.com). You won't find much Mac software at travelling computer shows. People who own Macs aren't real likely to attend such things. It's even difficult to find Mac software at retail locations in a lot of areas. Most Mac software is sold through a number of catalogs or online.

There's no viable RC sim out there for the Mac, and I very much doubt that we'll see one anytime soon. The only way I can see it happening is if the designers of FMS allow their software to be ported to the Mac, and enough talented Mac programmers happen to be RCers willing to donate their time in a colabrative project come forward.

Ok.....

Joe: "Ever been to a computer show, and saw an acre of cheap Windoze software, and barely anything for Macs?"

Again, as noted above, over 6500 titles avalable.

Joe: "How is the selection of software on Download.com for PC vs Mac?"

I see no more, no less than PC's.

Joe: "Then again, how would you hook your radio to a mac? Not much support for that either is there?"

No, just something called USB. After all, USB was only developed by Apple.

all these mac/win arguments again ... actually, I don't care who inventend/developed what or took what from where ... I see facts. The mac/window quota out there in the market, in the homes and offices is 1:999 or even worse. For me as a manufacturer there is ONE BIG vital question: what are my customers using? Actually, I did some market research. Isolating the people being interested in R/C air hobbies is pretty easy. The problem is that traditionally, few of them also have a hand for computers ... It was far worse when I started with that product 12 years back but it is improving gradually. So my target group out there is quite small anyway, FAR smaller than any game specialist is targetting at.

If I look deeper and isolate the people being interested in R/C hobby AND computers AND run a Mac - my world wide target group is that small, I could remember all their names and birthdays without a problem. But this group would need a similar support and a similar development resource. It's a little like a language minority problem: Going to Japan, I face funny characters in the restaurant and in the bus. The Japanese all know that there are strangers in town but they just can't make it nice for all of them so sometimes you find something in english. That fine for the english community but what about the french ...?

There is a Mac discussion here and there is a Linux discussion at home in Germany. I really had a contact once asking me to make an edition suitable for Atari and I am sure if I wait long enough there will be somebody asking for a PalmOS version - please 4.5 because 5.0 won't run on his system. I only have limited developing resources and as long as I have to earn some money I will direct these resources to where the money (customer) is. Still, the giant majority is to 99.99% in the windows field so that's where the game is played and that's where the people are.

Cheers - wolfgang