I had a Dave Brown sym with windows 3.1 which I was very happy with. However, it won't work with newer operating systems, so I bought his new one. The old one had many more models to fly and had very good graphics, considering it was over 10 years ago and a DOS based program. I prefered it to the new one by a whole lot. However, as someone else has said, the real bang for the buck is the FMS sym. I'm sure the big buck syms are superior, but the FMS is free with some purchases and the deluxe @ about $50.00 bucks has tons of models to chose from and works really well, I don't think it can be beat.

I had G2 and G3, and also have FMS. I was really expecting G3 to be a much bigger improvement over my G2, and it wasn't. A buddy wanted a G3, so I sold him mine and kept the G2 and FMS. Still used the G2 more even when I had the G3, so I seen no since in keeping it. Great Planes should have just come up with a Software upgrade for G2. Instead they greedily make you buy a whole other Controller with Software package when they very easily could have just developed and sold you a much cheaper software upgrade to the G2, and continued the use of the G2 controller and forgot about the little reset button on the G3 controller. IMO if you allready have G2, then G3 is a waste of money. If you have no simulator then the G3 would be good to buy if you have a newer computer to run it, so you can enjoy its very few extra features. If you have a little older computer then a good used G2 off the RCU Marketplace would be a better investment IMO. As far as the FMS, who can complain about it? It is a great Freeware Program without the fancy graphics, but it will basically teach you just as much about how how to control an airplane as any of the others. If you are just wanting a basic Sim that lets you stay fresh on the controller, then the FMS is pretty hard to beat. The FMS is also loaded with hundreds of different Planes to Fly.

I just upgraded to aerofly pro deluxe from aerofly pro. It's a great sim for 3d but the graphics are way behind reflex for sure!!! I really can't tell much difference between aerofly pro and the deluxe. For the $80 I wish that I'd just kept aerofly pro then picked up reflex also!!!!!!!!! Very dissapointed on the graphics with deluxe!!!

I had g2, horrible physics...

I now use g3 and AFPD side by side, and i'll say that G3 was a HUGE HUGE HUGE improvement over G2, I like the view, its more realistic, you get more periphial vision... the 3d planes are nice in g3, and it seems very realistic.... AFPD on the other hand, fits somewhere in the middle, it is nice, much better than g2, but.....

problems with afpd:
1. photorealistic scenery sucks for depth perception/quality/realism
2. crash detection in afpd is horrible, you can drop planes really hard and they bounce
3. after a crash in afpd, it makes an explosion noise, yea, thats real....
4. after a crash in afpd, you can't keep flying to prepare yourself for such an occurence, I wanted to try flying with a busted wing, i've seen a mid air where this happened and the guy couldn't bring it down right, but still had "control" of it... there might be an option in afpd, i don't know, i couldn't find it, so thats that.
5. the whole layout of afpd sucks, g3 is nice and easy, you dont have to quit to the main menu...
6. the editor in g3 is much nicer than afpd, its not just all numbers, you can change real brand name parts...
7. off power high alpha flight is unrealistic in afpd, ie, falling from a hover, harrier, etc...
8. in wind, helis rise and fall depending if they pitch into or out of the wind... in afpd it doesnt work like that...
9. 3d in general seems to easy in afpd in comparison to g3, and real 3d flying...

*puts on flame suit*

Just ask anyone who has never flown G3 and they will tell you AFPD is better.

I've had both. G3 is the better sim overall. They both have weak/strong points, but G3 gets the nod for closest physics to real flying, even though they both are a mile off. They are just sims. Both companies can and should do better, before I spend any more money on either, or the add-on planes for G3.

The above requires a caveat; G3 demands a gamer-class computer to run satisfactorily at maximum settings.

G3 needs to get rid of the ridiculous "active" scenery (floating clouds, leaves rustling). The only time it is useful, is while glider soaring, when you may see the different layers of clouds drifting in different directions as you soar.

The problem with it, is you don't watch leaves rustling and clouds drifting while raising hell with hi-perf 3D aerobats in close-in airspace. A useless feature, actually.

G3 could pare-down the bloated graphics code to run on lesser machines. This is a software writing issue. One could say, "yeah, well, what about thick smoke reducing frame-rate close-in"? Same problem.

If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have purchased either...

My computer below:

AMD Athlon 64 FX-55 (2.6 Ghz) (200X13)
DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra D - N4D510-2 Bios
EVGA 6800 Ultra 256 Meg PCI-e Video (Auto OC)
OCZ PC3200 EL Platinum 2 Gig (2X1024) DIMMs (2-3-5-2,1T)
SoundBlaster Audio/Modem Card (Ham Radio Digital Signal Processor)
USB to DB9 RS-232 Adapter (Kenwood TS-2000 Computer Control)
2X Western Digital 74 Gig Raptor SATA Drives (Boot) (RAID 0)
AEA PK232MBX (Dedicated Packet Radio TNC) on Serial Port
Archos External 20 Gig USB 2.0 Drive/Player (MP3s)
Seagate 2.5 Gig USB 2.0 Pocket HDD (Utilities)
Seagate 100 Gig Barracuda IDE Drive (DATA)
Seagate 200 Gig Barracuda IDE Drive (DATA)
Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Case (Black)
Thermaltake Silent Boost Cooler (Copper)
Thermaltake Silent Power 680 Watt PSU
2X Ultra 1000 VA 600 Watt AVR UPS
Windows XP Pro - XP Home - SP2
NEC DVD+/-RW DL ND-3520A
Samsung 900DF CRT Monitor
Asus CD-S480/AH CDROM
Asus Multi-Media Reader
Asus 3.5 In. FDD

You wanna play, you gotta pay! ;-}

Charles

hey, when is the last time you went outside and didn't see clouds moving and leaves rustling in the wind these games are all about realism

Anyway, I thought you could disable this feature? One of the guys here with g3 has an older compy and got it to run smoothly by disabling all the fancy graphics stuff...

btw: nice rig, raptors rock

I dont see why g3 producers didnt make an option for photo scenery, they say its a step back in technology, but if it will let it run on a lesser pc then they should have added it in. I remember g2 had it but it was extremly poor, but if it was on g3 it would barely take up memory. Or they should make more g2 type fields that are smaller but are still 3D. As for physics in g3, it has brought me a LOOOOONNG way in a VERY short time with my skills. I have no idea how AFPD flies but from watching videos and reading threads like this, i dont care to dish out the money for it, i like G3!

G3 now has photo scenery, although personaly - I prefer the 3D scenes.

There is a HUGE list of improvements in the latest G3 update - maybe this poll should be re-done. [X(]
Actually, lets wait until the GMax new plane importer is done before re-doing this poll.

Here is the list of new features and bug fixes for .410:

NEW FEATURES:
PhotoField airport technology
New airports: Sod Farm & Grassy Flatlands (PhotoFields)
Default airport is now Grass Flatlands
Airport editor: Support for PhotoField airports (render to depth-buffer, cast shadows, sun halo, fixed camera)
Airport editor: "Drop aircraft on reset" and "Initial velocity" properties added to airplane spawn points
Airport editor: New Pilot Preview window
Aircraft editor: "Launch Method" property added to aircraft
Import raw panoramic images (Simulation->Import->Raw Panoramic Image)
Expanded graphics card compatibility
Time scale parameter in physics settings
Rolling resistance and friction coefficient factors added to wheels and surfaces
Camber thrust model for tires
Flexible helicopter landing skids
General improvements to ground handling & steering model
Converted user manual from HTML and Word formats to Adobe .PDF format
Initial hand-launch direction is now determined by pilot spawn orientation instead of wind direction
Automatically generate new collision files when a 3D model has changed
Added another servo to the smoke component to control smoke more effectively
"Remember aircraft position" lets you temporarily save the aircraft position and orientation to be used on aircraft reset
Show environment map on shiny breakoff parts
Camera behavior during events modified for "fixed camera only" airports
New window modes: normal (resizable), maximized normal, maximized full-screen (menu bar only), full-screen exclusive
New custom channel mapping dialog
Aircraft specifications moved to tab in selection dialog
Airport selection dialog uses panoramic previews
Grouping options in airport/aircraft selection dialogs
"Custom" folder in airport/aircraft selection dialogs
Redesigned multiplayer "Join" dialog
Controller numbering in the Select Controller menu
"Show pilot nametag" option on MultiMode and Event menus
Roll/zoom added to TrackIR view
E3D - Flap Mixing: added flaperon and spoileron mixing
Launcher: online updates can be cancelled and resumed (starting from the last completely downloaded file)


FIXED BUGS:
Eliminate texture cache (RealFlight.cmp-tcache) that is causing startup hangs
Crash sometimes occurs when all wheels are broken off before a reset
Collision detection/response code needs more optimization
Behavior of lightweight breakoff objects needs improvement
Loading of collision meshes needs optimization to improve load times
Some complex airport objects need optimized collision meshes to improve collision engine performance
Numerous fixes and optimizations for vehicle visual meshes
Engine handling bug for airplanes with multiple electric motors
Planes "jump" when a piece breaks off
Proximity engine performance and runway detection need improvement
Dirt squares and corners should be "runway" object types
Airplanes are sometimes identified as helicopters
Turbine engine sounds don't stop when engines are separated from aircraft
Smoke continues emitting from smoke components after breakapart
Engine sounds keep playing at breakoff location after breakapart
Some static objects have bad scaling values the first time they load
Attempting to change zoom level in Keep Ground In View mode affects zoom level in manual zoom mode
Autozoom level not persistent
“Look At� option combined with pivot camera mode can cause camera to pivot around incorrect aircraft
"Look at windsock" looks at the base of the pole, not the sock itself
"Look at windsock" always looks to first windsock, even when multiple windsocks are present
Walk mode prevents “Look at Windsock� from working correctly
Walk mode keys (W, A, S, D) are not functional while a VFI is playing
Mini-viewports can't quicklook at objects
Camera spring level setting is treated as incorrect data type
Change default wind setting for all airports (except slope soaring airports) to zero MPH
Wind Variation setting is a percentage, but constraints allow values from 0-200
Crash and other bad behavior when using two G3 Controllers
Multiplayer host dialog accepts invalid port numbers
Changing shadow quality setting does not affect recordings/multiplayer participants that are already loaded
Name tags don't appear consistently for remote participants
Chat Gadget title is not updated after exiting the first multiplayer session and joining another
Chat Gadget text size setting has no effect
Clicking on a viewport in MultiMode doesn't always work
Aircraft editor: When saving, no warning before overwriting an existing custom aircraft
Aircraft editor: Dialog is not resizable but should be
Aircraft editor: No user prompt to save changes after renaming a component and attempting to exit
Aircraft editor: Under certain circumstances, two rotor heads appear
Aircraft editor: Creating multiple rotor components is permitted
Aircraft editor: Cannot delete tail boom component
Aircraft editor: "Display metric units" menu option not persistent
Aircraft editor: Bad default value for "Location in Parent" and other properties
Airport editor: Crashes when moving windsock to a new folder
Airport editor: Various bugs with Reset Window Position feature
Airport Editor: "Fit Object to View" behavior needs improvement
Airport editor: Read only items are not grayed out
Airport editor: Edit menu and context menu do not always contain the same functions
Airport editor: Following properties need improvement: sun position, sky color, shadows
Airport editor: Control objects are resizable using the hotkey, even though they have no scale
Airport editor: Set As Default should not be available for airplane and helicopter spawns
Airport editor: Misc. other bugs
Remove camera translations after exiting airport editor
Recordings continue playing in airport editor
Aircraft selection dialog is resizable but should not be
"Save Color Scheme As..." does not warn before overwriting an existing color scheme
Airport MRU does not include most recent airport if a new one is loaded to play a VFI
Help menu items do not appear while in MultiMode
Show Keyboard Commands gadget contains some unsupported hotkeys
Eliminate event previews
Events timer countdown displays tenths as hundredths
Sierra Nevada Cliff airport: heli cannot be seen from pilot spawn
Default scale is wrong for Adair Runway and Grassy Field airport objects (AO5)
Clean up airport object folder hierarchy for G2 airports
Sim does not respond properly if Windows monitor resolution setting is changed while the sim is running
Lighting is different in the binocular view than in the main viewport
Sky color needs improving for all airports
Forest rendering needs optimizing
"Brightness" setting needs to have more effect
Make Futaba channel mapping the default configuration for the controller interface
Remove "Flying the Obstacle Course" recording from installation directory
Naming problem with Rossi .90 ducted fan torque generators (missing space)
Missing projected scenery object does not give an error message
System message settings not always enforced
System messages should be removed when entering the airport editor
Kontronik motors have zero mass
Crash caused by certain turbine configurations
Control objects visible while simulation is running under certain circumstances
Sun Azimuth/Latitude/Wind parameters aren't being copied when creating a new airport
Sometimes VFI narrations are muted after loading several VFIs
Various aircraft and airport description errors
Misc. viewport and gadget bugs
Misc. spelling and grammar errors
Launcher: Online updates dialog is unresponsive during updates
Launcher: Online updates should detect incomplete files in download cache and react appropriately
Launcher: Crash occurs in certain cases after updating from an early version to a later version then back
Launcher: Improve online updates error checking and error reporting
Launcher: Improve online updates network compatibility (especially DirecWay satellite internet connections)
Launcher: Assemble information (in tech support dialog) should include fileread.ini, should not include airports.ini
Launcher: Misc. other fixes and dialog cleanup


AIRCRAFT CHANGES:
BLT Park Flyer: Reduced rudder throw
E3D: Strengthened vertical and horizontal tail
Extra Special: Increased tail strength
Ultra Sport: Added retracts
Yak-54: Updated description
Piper Cub (AO1): Removed aileron-rudder mixing and increased right thrust to 2 degrees
DC-3 (AO2): Removed aileron-rudder mixing and increased aileron throw
PT-19 (AO2): Adjusted downthrust value and engine location to improve takeoff behavior
A-10 (AO3): Added wing incidence, no longer climbs at full throttle
P-47 (AO3): Reduced elevator throw, increased right thrust to 3.5 degrees, moved CG forward
Sukhoi - 3D Version (AO3): Added mass to various components, increased tail strength
Edge 540 (AO4): Modified tail and rudder strength and mass
Extra 330S (AO4): Increased wing and tail strength
Nobler (AO4): Reduced rudder throw, removed smoke servo, set up visual rudder component
Contender (AO5): Removed smoke servo
Double Whammy (AO5): Removed throttle servo, renamed vertical fin component
Gee Bee (AO5): Added smoke to glow version, changed electric sound profile, reduced elevator throw, added right thrust
KingCat (AO5): Added more flap-elevator mixing to fix pitch-down problem, increased wing strength
Sea Fury (AO5): Moved CG forward, reduced elevator throw
Shoestring (AO5): Removed smoke servo
Viper (AO5): Removed smoke servo, assigned throttle servo to exhaust smoke

Well...after using the new G3 photofield scenes and panoramic importer, have to still say...G3!

3D Screenies:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v402/r...3%20Simulator/

Charles

i like all the changes.. but the aircraft changes.. the planes are starting to fly like aerofly planes,, they are getting too easy to fly and floaty. and that sucks! G3 helped me loads on my flying. but the way i go now is profile electric.. By FAR the best SIM

DrumBum:

I agree about planes flying easier when using photofield scenes. The incredible frame-rates just make responses "instant", whereas using complex 3D scenes slow-down the frame-rate enough that response time is slowed as well. The huge frame-rate increase just "feels" like butter on the sticks; smooth, instantaneous, and flowing. Also, there's a lot less "crap" you have to watch-out for in the photofields. I've used several high-perf 3D aeros, switching back and forth between photofield and 3D scenery in G3, and the physics "feel" the same with both, just smoother with photofields.

I'd like to know if there are different .plng3 files used for photofields and 3D fields. I'm guessing not, but then again, I'm just guessing... ;-}

Charles

I'm Goin' For G3

Bump.

Blehhhh , the same old story, 5 a 6 g3 guys will prove that...............[&:]

Hmmmm. This is very interesting. A poll from over a year ago. Can I switch my vote from AFPD to G3? I voted for AFPD back then because G3 was still a baby. Now G3 has come to life and completely blows AFPD out of the water. Was G3's heli update even included when this poll was even put up?


50%

Only in your dreams, Chris, so many simmakers did try it whitout sucses, little dirty imitators .........

Favourite flight simulator? Unless a person has had the opportunity to use a number of different flight sims, how can they determine whether or not any one particular product is better than another? I owned the original Real Flight and two months ago purchased G3. It works well, but I can't comment on whether it’s better than any of the other sims out there. IMHO It might be a good idea if respondents provide info on their experience with other sims and thereby establish credibility.