patrick_ashour

Hi everyone,
Where do you buy 2/4 stroke fuel?
Is there any instructions on how to make it yourself?

BDZ65

Easy to mix yourself, if you have access to Methanol, Nitro and Oil. Recipe is very simple just mix by volume. I have a spreadsheet where you can enter nitro percent, and oil percent, volumes in ounces are calculated.

C17

So you need to add methanol and nitro to gas for a 2 stroke?

tedsander

If by "gas" you mean gasoline, for a glow engine the answer is "NO". Only use gas in engines set up for it.

Traditional glow engines use primarily methanol and oil (castor or synthetic equivalent - not petroleum oils.). Many run fine on just that. Nitromethane is added to help with consistency and idle. Some power increase, but that goes into a rabbit hole of debate, which is very engine and setup specific.
Common recommendation is a higher amount of oil for 4 strokes, and less for 2 strokes. But amounts vary widely depending on the engine manufacturer. And the debate goes on about whether the difference really makes a difference....
What ratio of ingredients to use depends a bit on the engine design, how it is set up (glow plug type, compression ratio via head shims) and ultimate use - general sport or all out max power, etc. Going without nitro may mean some tweaking of adding/removing head shims and changing to a different spec glow plug.
As noted above, common "standard" mixing ratios are easy to come by. So if you have access to the ingredients, is easy to do. Whether much cheaper or not depends on the sources you get them from, quality, and how big a batch you want to make..

Gasoline engines typically have a real spark plug, and use a gasoline/petroleum oil mix. The amount and type of oil is specified by the manufacturer.

There are a very few engines using a special glow plug that burn gasoline, and there are retrofit kits to convert a glow engine to spark and gasoline - but each has its own list of advantages/drawbacks as to how well they work, and haven't been widely used by most people.

Premade glow fuels can be bought via a local hobby shop, or on line. Cost is outrageous due to no more domestic manufacture of nitromethane (now from China) AND extremely high hazmat shipping fees.

billlvrcs

I get 15% 2 cycle glow fuel from Stan at S&W Fuels in Easton, Pa. We have been using his fuel for 25 years with excellent results. I run two 4 cycles and the rest 2 cycles and in the hot weather I add 2 oz of Beanol racing castor oil. Most of my engines are from the early to mid '90s and run very well. Opt to the rich side on the high needle, they run cooler and last longer. Stan ships fuel all over the East coast. Tell him Bill from LVRC sent you.

1QwkSport2.5r

I mix my own fuel. A one-size-fits-all approach doesn’t work for what I do. It’s much cheaper to mix your own fuel, too.

jngoins

Be careful using castor oil in YS fuel blends. Castor tends to gum up the small ports in the YS carbs

Eastflight

Just started mixing my own fuel due to the silly costs of commercial blends on the market nowadays.
I do a straight mix with 84% methanol and 16% Oil (2% Castor & 14% Mobil Jet II Oil). The Mobil Jet II is a synthetic Oil used on gas turbine engines.
My engines are between .46 to .61 (2S/4S) size and the fuel works great. HS/LS setting needs a 'tweek' to compensate for lack of Nitro but not an issue so far.
If you need Nitro added for a crisper throttle, that's your choice (5% should be more than enough)
Suggest changing your silicone tubing to Tygon as the Jet Oil may deteriorate it over time.
Klots Oil is the norm for glow fuels. Castor Oil (American Racing Castor is good) easily available.
It works out at 1/3 of the cost making your own fuel compared to buying retail (or do a gas conversion ??)
Give it a try - You won't look back !!

JumpyMan

Hey 1QwkSport2.5r and other self-mixer! All I can say is WOW! It's been literally 4 decades since I flew, I've been getting my 3 OS 61 FSR's back in shape, etc. and was just looking for fuel ~ $50 for a gallon of Airplane Fuel! I remember back in the early 80's we had a 55 gallon drum in our garage of 5% Nitro fuel. . I know it was bulk but that was about $5/gallon. I'm in Nashville ~ any idea where I can buy some fuel locally that isn't crazy expensive?

I'm not opposed to mixing my own if I do eventually get back to the point where I'm burning through gallons of fuel. Where do you guys get your Methanol, NItro and Castor/Lubricant? Thanks in advance.

Eastflight

Sorry Mate, I can't help you there. I'm from the UK,
However, I would think you can get the Methanol and Castor oil from a hardware shop or Walmart ? Good Luck!!

JumpyMan

Hey Eastflight!
That's okay, thanks just the same for the info. And, again, WOW, 1/3 the cost mixing your own fuel. That's definitely worth the extra effort. What do you pay for a gallon of pre-mixed 5% Nitro fuel? Where do YOU get your Methanol? I did quite a bit of online searching and seems like here in The US about $30 USD PLUS SHIPPING is about the lowest cost fuel. By comparison, I did find a place that I could get a 5 gallon container of Methanol for about $60 plus shipping (figure about $15/gallon after shipping) I found a gallon of Nitro for about $90 and, at 5%, only need a little more than 6 oz/gallon so that'll go a long way, THEN there's lubricant. So, with all that involved, unless I can find better prices on the individual components, it doesn't seem to make much sense to mix my own. One thought I had is the Top Fuel Drag Racers. . .they must buy this stuff by the DRUM. . gotta me plenty of Racetracks around Nashville, right? Klotz? Sunoco Race Fuels? Etc. Anyway, thanks again for the input

Eastflight

Hello again
Yes the cost to blend your own is cheaper in the long run if you can source the mix in volume. I buy Methanol 25 Litres for £35 GBP (delivered to my door). The Oil I can get locally for cheap from a friend. Unfortunately I cannot buy pure Nitro since it requires a licence/permit in UK and Europe. Nevertheless, I can get away with a straight mix which works fine with my motors so far. If I need to add some Nitro then I will get a half gallon 25% premix (and then just add a small quantity to my own blend to produce a 5% additive). But so far I have not had to do that.
Klots will be fine for you to use.
Good Luck and Enjoy :-)

JumpyMan

Hey Eastflight!

Thanks for the awesome info! That's incredible that you can get what amounts to about 6.5 gallons of Methanol for under $40 USD! If I could get Methanol for $7/gallon and Nitro that I've already found for what comes to about 4$/gallon at 5% then you're absolutely correct. .that's about 1/3 of pre-mix at a GOOD price. I'll try to hit some other US sources, still thinking Funny Car/Drag Racing places as they're running Methanol and Nitro and no WAY they're paying our prices for 100's of gallons of the stuff. Thanks again for the great info. Just out of curiosity, where do you get your Methanol? Lab? Factory? Thanks Eestflight. . .getting late there 😉 Gnite 😴

1QwkSport2.5r

Around here (Minneapolis/St. Paul Minnesota), glow fuel - regardless of what it’s for, is around $45 a gallon for SIG Champion 5/20 fuel. Boat and Car fuel is about $60/gal. When I can go out for the day and burn a whole gallon of fuel sometimes, it can get pretty expensive. 5% nitro fuel I can mix for about $6-7 a gallon which is mainly what I use in my aircraft engines. I use 20/12 fuel in my trucks which amounts to about $20/gal. Boat fuel is pretty close to the same as the cost of car fuel.

I get nitro online - last I paid about $80/gal with free shipping. I have a friend that can get it much cheaper, but the shipping is a pain. Nobody locally stocks it, so that’s a hard one for me. I use Klotz Techniplate synthetic because I got a bunch of it real cheap, but I don’t use much of it because most of my engines’ manufacturers spec castor oil which smells nicer and is a lot cheaper compared to what Klotz costs nowadays. Klotz cost me $12/quart about 6 years ago; I got 2 quarts. Still have 1-1/4 quarts left. Synthetics that mix in methanol have a bad habit of breaking down if run too hard, which I tend to do being more performance oriented, so I use more castor due to its cost and thermal stability being better than Klotz. Morgan’s sells the same kind of synthetic, and S&W fuels sells a good ester based synthetic that works quite well also. Castor oil can be had from a lot of sources; the cheapest place I’ve found is from Bulk Apothecary if I get 2 gallons at a time. Any castor oil for making cosmetics or soap will be filtered and not contain any Ricin. The ricin will be in the solids of the castor bean which is what’s filtered out. Ricin is bad stuff. Pricing on BA’s castor was about $25 a gallon (8lbs) and shipping to my door is around $22. Shipping 2 gallons is darn near the same as shipping 1 gallon, so it makes sense to get 2. Methanol is sourced locally. A fuel company about 20 miles south of me stocks about 5,000 gallons of methanol and it runs $2.75-$3.25/gal. I have two steel 5-gallon buckets I refill once every other season. Castor from the drug store works fine as long as it has no additives in it. Usually castor oil for human consumption can sometimes have sugar or flavorings added to it. These are to be avoided!!

I would suggest doing some calling around to hotrod and speed shops to find methanol and nitromethane. Shipping this stuff is pretty gnarly these days. You might be better off buying a 5-gallon bucket of a 50/50 blend of nitromethane and methanol just due to the hazmat being less offensive. Just factor that into your mixing ratios.

JumpyMan

Wow, lot's of great information here, thanks for the details! Good to get details on how people mix their own here in The US ~ thanks again!

1QwkSport2.5r

And FWIW - I mix by volume, but I measure out a small volume and weigh it. Typically 1 fluid ounce (about 30mL). Then it’s just a matter of doing some math to multiply the volume desired by the weight to get the weight of the entire volume being measured. Ambient air temperature influences the density of the fuel components, so weighing the components before mixing will give the most accurate ratios.

Eastflight

Hi JumpyMan
1QwkSport2 has given some good advice on using 'a scale' to measure your fuel mix (due to the difference in specific gravity of each fluid).
Its much more accurate than measuring by fluid graduations (ie: mixing by by pouring into a graduated beaker/ jug and reading off the graduated markings by sight).
I find mixing in 1000ml batches (in this case grams) convenient and then tipping into a 5Ltr can after each mix - 'purely for ease and less mess'.
Across the pond you'll probably be using fl oz. But same principle !!
NOTE: DO NOT CONFUSE FLUID OUNCE (FL OZ) WITH OUNCE. THEY ARE DIFFERENT UNITS. FL OZ IS SPECIFIC TO VOLUME (LIQUIDS).
(1000ml = 33.82 fl oz)

Enjoy....!

carlgrover

Hey JumpyMan, There are several clubs around the Nashville area. Contact one of them to see what they're doing fuel-wise. Some clubs buy fuel in bulk then sell it to their members for cheap. Look on the AMA website for contacts.


Carl

georgek_54

Hi everyone

Does anybody know "BURNING FUEL" for glow engines?
It comes from Spain and just appeared in the Greek market. I want to know if it is reliable or worthless.

Thanks

George

Eastflight

Sorry, I've never heard of that brand of fuel

billlvrcs

Give Stan a call at SW Hobbies Easton, Pa. Tell him Bill from LVRCS sent you! Good glow good guy good price.

georgek_54

Very strange indeed.

I have a can of a gallon of this "BURNING FUEL". There is an indication on the can (that is supposed to be produced in Spain)

www.burningfuel.net

When I try this SITE only a blanc page appears! No company, no contents, nothing at all !

Seems like a ghost-company!

Jesse Open

It is a sign that the site has become abandoned and is available.

That fuel supplier is likely Kaput.

georgek_54

Though, this fuel is curently available here in Greece. Surely I do not use it, I prefer to import OPTIFUEL from other countries.