Powermaster Fuels stood behind the product with no reservations-sent one email and answered one email from them and they took care of the shortage beyond what was expected-and did this in a two day period-I am completely satisfied and will continue to use the product-I have never had a fuel problem at the field-although I have seen other guys dead stick all day and switch to powermaster and the problem goes away-I am no expert, and the way unleaded gas is being priced I will be trying glow fuel before the winter in the Suburban

Being fair-minded and flying with Sig fuel, I mention the following. I have had no problem, but a friend has had a problem with newer Sig gallon jugs developing small cracks on the bottom and leaking. I plan to buy several cases of Sig fuel in September. I am rounding up my old fuel jugs and cans, just in case.

I'm with PLANE JIM, Ed Smith and Powermaster. As was promised the brown truck arrived today at about 4pm. I have already passed along the contents of my conversation with Laura Hammond, Vice President of Powermaster in this thread. I have passed my thoughts along about this matter throughout this thread as well. The bottom line is that I was advised to contact the manufacturer Powermaster and did so. IMHO I was treated very kindly and with concern about the shortage and my inconvienience. People are human and make mistakes, machines are machines and can go out of calibration or break. Powermaster has stood behind the product and behind me as the customer. I also will continue to purchase Powermaster products factory direct if I have to. My hat is off to Laura and the gang at Powermaster for a job well done. A special thanks to Laura as like PLANE JIM, I too was more than compensated for the shortage that I experienced. Powermaster has gained my respect and admiration for the way the matter was handled and with that, I respectfully remain.

Since I was the one who started this thread, I would like to give you my final thoughts regarding this topic.

Yes, POWERMASTER did have a problem with their filling equipment which resulted in some shortages, but also some overages. Yes, I could have chosen other words, but it got people's attention. Yes, I could have called POWERMASTER and kept this private, thus benefiting only myself.

The course taken allowed POWERMASTER to step up to the plate and hit a home-run. They've proved to us all that they're a quality company, run by quality people, making the best quality fuel in the business.

Agreed, although I did see something about this same subject some time ago elsewhere. That post and yours led to my checking the first gallon out of the seven I bought from the same batch number. My photo results were posted, Powermaster took care of the problem and of course you got the wheels turning. Just another thank you here to everyone involved.

I too notice a can of Power Master 20/20 being a little short but not much I can do about it. That they recognized the problem and have taken action is good. But for such a highly reputable product to have such lousy quality control makes one wonder about the rest of the stuff (e.g. percents nitro or lube). There could be a serious problem for a premium product. I hope matters improve for them but I would recommend getting rid of the cans.

Cheers,

Chip

The cans are needed to comply with the National Fire Code.

This thread's been pretty interesting and raises questions about manufacturing processes, but isn't it great that we even have something like this to discuss. I've been bent about a lot of things, like the AMA's videos, etc., and was just yesterday lamenting to Global Hobby the fact that we can't get Lazy Bee kits anymore. They (Global Hobby) gave an immediate and reasonable reply as to why, but it got me to thinking that our hobby is a relatively small part of the world and we have so much selection of so many components from so many suppliers that it's absolutely amazing. And how many of them are just barely making it on our business? This all's a pretty enjoyable hobby and I'm glad so many are willing to serve us. Someday there just might no be so much to complain about, and then we can complain about THAT! I'm impressed with how Power Master handled this and thank them for making our hobby possible. The capital they've invested in making fuel might well be more profitably be deployed somewhere else, but my guess is they think our hobby's worth investing in for more than just the money. Again, great thread.

I wonder if Powermaster has revised their policy about shipping factory direct to people who live in Texas.
I e-mailed them once to order,and all I got was Sorry, no shipping to Texas unless you are a dealer.
What a rip-off.
Mike

I've got my own issues with Powermaster, but it was from about 7 or 8 yrs ago. PM had a bad batch of fuel(YS20/20), causing many YS 120 owners to burn up their engines. I found out on the net before using any of the case of fuel I bought. I called PM, Don Nix asked for the lot#, said yes, it was defective and shipped me a replacement case. The problem is, PM wouldn't replace any of the burned up $400 engines, which I find reprehensible given that PM admitted it was defective fuel. The really funny part is, the replacement case of 4 jugs started leaking(all 4 plastic jugs). Needless to say, I wasn't going to use it in my YS, ended up using it in a .45 2 stroke that I didn't care about. It worked fine, but that was my last use of Powermaster and I highly doubt I ever will again.

Dave
What fuel do you recommend

I FLY CL,
There was no problem with the quality of the fuel blends during the underages and overages. That is the concern of what occurred here and the subject of this thread. DaveR is pointing out something that happened many years ago. IMHO his comment and how things happened then, has no relevance as to what really happened here. Even though some of my gallon cans were short the fuel was just fine. Let your judgement about what happened here and how it was handled be your guide. As I stated before if my LHS discontinues to carry Powermaster fuels, I'll just call Laura and have her send me a case or two.

After reading this thread several days ago, I checked some of the cases I have...

I found that both the 10% and 15% that I have are short a substantial amount.
I poured the contents of the PM metal can into a plastic jug, and it came up 2-3" lower than a full jug.

Jeez, I've got 3 cases of 10%, 3 of 15% and 2 of 20/20...
I checked 2 cans of each case, and they're all shy...[]

I plan on calling Monday to see what Laura can do for me...

proptop,
Make sure that you have the batch numbers handy when you call. Laura advised me that PM has a pretty good handle on which batch numbers were involved. If you get her voicemail leave a message with your number and the best time to call. Laura returned the call the next day promptly at 4pm when I asked her to.

Proptop,

Read my post #38. I established a relationship between the volume of fuel and what a gallon should weigh with the can. Remembering that my fuel was 15%nitro and 18% oil. Blends close to this should not differ that much.

Weigh your fuel and check it that way it is quick and easy.

Ed S

This is a complete rip off ! After weighing my newly bought cans of powermaster I came up with 1.29 pounds of fuel missing from the can. I just want to know if I call this lady? what will she do? and should I buy the fuel again ? I am not mad because this is the first time I have bought powermaster due to the low price . Help me out Bros.

While it's true that my gripes have nothing to do with shorting the amount of fuel in a gallon, it does speak to the quality control, or lack thereof, by PM. To I_FLY_CL, I don't promote fuel companies, but I've found most all fuel manufacturers offer good fuel if you buy to fit your engine needs. PM runs fine, but something was wrong with THAT fuel, and PM wouldn't replace the engines.

RC-Fiend,

Basicly in this Forum people can offer information only.

As has been posted many times. CALL POWERMASTER!

Ed S

Thank you again for your recent updates on the fuel shortage problems. I have tried to reach several members that I saw posting that I have not heard back from. Batch # 's are all you need to have handy. Since Powermaster was purchased in 1998 by the Hammond's we have commited ourselves on quality fuel and customer satisfaction. I am listing the contact information again in case you need it.

Laura Hammond
Vice President Powermaster Fuels
1-800-847-9086 ext 2#

Laura,
For some reason the PM system here is not always functional. I know that from our experience as the PM'S that you sent to me were never received, however the private e-mails were. Please, any concerned members just contact Laura directly and make sure you provide a telephone number you can be reached at and your private e-mail address. Laura will return your calls and will adddress your needs.

P.S. We are tired of dealing with these violent Hurricanes, Can you ship directly to me up further north?

Thanks olstoney and Ed, and especially Laura

I called Monday, and had a very nice conversation with Laura...
She patiently explaned how something like this could happen, and why...

I found it easy to understand how several batches could be run off a bit on the shy side.

I'm not going into any details, because I con't want to get any of them wrong, but it was an honest mistake, and to answer the title of the thread...IMO No.

P.S. Laura,
I hope your brother, near New Orleans is o.k.!

See,
Nothing more needs to be said. If you have legitimate problem it will be handled in a professional manner. Come on guys, what else can you ask for here? Problem discovered answer Yes, problem rectified answer Yes, taking care of the consumer answer Yes, IMHO it's time to leave this subject alone and move along to something else. If you did not call PM you have no complaint, if you did call PM you were taken care of. What else can a reputable company do for you?

Oh, I'm steamed after reading this.
I'm not a complainer but I am a fan of PM fuels as you can see by the picture here. These are my "active" gallons on rotation. Yes, every single one is a different type. Yes, I fly many engines. I was actually looking for a specific fuel that my LHS no longer carries and came across this post as I am do some custom mixes with their fuel to get what I need. I have a spreadsheet to calculate the exact ml to get the exact %s I need but if my cans are short fuel, I'm off my mark and this is problematic and worrysome.

I immediately went to the PM website to check if there was a fuel recall or some news about can shortage. I could not find anything. Should'nt PM post the batch numbers so consumers can check their stock or is this so widespread... Does everyone need to measure their gallons or lack thereof.
Where does this start and end. Say an average shortage is 10ozs of fuel and your average gallon price is $15, that is a loss of 1.17 a gallon. How many gallons were sold short, that could add up. As an abundant PM fuel consumer, I am concerned... I wish to hear from PM. Thanks.

I can understand a problem with one lot number. I can't fathom shortages in different blends and nitro %'s over who knows how long. It could add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars that PM shorted their customers. I too would like to hear from PowerMaster with a detailed explanatation.

Speaking as an outsider here, I read this thread with interest and mounting disbelief.

I know for certain that in the UK this case would have been hauled before the Trading Standards Commission (for consumer protection). I can only assume by the "lie down and take it" attitude of various posters in this thread that such an organisation doesn't exist within the US - am I correct?

In a case like this in the UK, Powermaster would most likely have been fined.

I work in manufacturing and I know for sure that the type of mistake that PM are claiming just can't happen "accidentally" In any manufacturing process there are likely to be losses but never gains. If you are pumping 1,000 gallons of raw materials into your manufacturing process and you are generating 1,100 gallons of product then it is pretty obvious that there has been a screw-up.

Most certainly, in the case of a carefully blended product like glow fuel it is absolutely vital that you know exactly how much of each ingredient is being added to the mix.

I think that the only remaining question is, "how long PM have been getting away with ripping off their customers". As was pointed out, this is not restricted to one batch or even one type of fuel mix - it is a general problem across many. Certainly, if I was one of the affected people I would;

a) take the refund
b) make a formal complaint against the company
c) say goodbye to PM as a fuel supplier.

Archie