Pathogens

My Feedback: (1)

My first O.S. 32 Heli engine.

What in the heck went wrong with this one.

I have it installed on my JR Venture. Brand new engine. Only ran for around 10 seconds prior to this event.

First time it ran, had same problem

On to the problem

I have a metal pinning sound when the piston comes up the crankshaft. when the engine is running, or even when it is not running and i am just turning it over manualy.

I believe that the piston it is hitting the head. The more tightly I bolt the head on, the worse it gets. If i back the bolts off a bit, just finger tight, the problem does not go away, but gets a little softer. For the engine to even sound right, I have to back the bolts out of the head so far that some oil leaks out when the engine is running.

YES, there is a gold ring, like a thin washer installed between the head and the crankshaft.

Why me Lord????????????????????????????????????

swee7an

hey Pathogens,

i am not that experienced, but maybe you are using the wrong glow plug (large one!)

i have the same engine but no problems. and i think am using O.S. plug #8

i don't advise you start the engine again unless your problem is fixed.

and wait for more experienced ppl to reply

FHHuber

Yep something VERY serious is wrong... and you should not attempt to run the engine again until it is fixed. (or replaced. More likely replaced at this point.)

The excess glow plug length is a good thing to check. Unfortunately... if that is the problem and you have run the engine that way... you may have done irrepareable harm already. Slapping a piston against a piece of steel at 10,000 rpm (10,000 impacts per min...) is very harmful to the piston,connecting rod and the con rod bearings and the crankshaft pin for the con rod.

Its possible that the head itself was mis-ground at the factory and the piston is hitting that.

Its possible you got a bad engine (everyone makes a bad one once in a while...) and it had some metal filings floating in the crankcase which have by now chewed up the bearings.

Whatever it is. having run 10 min clanging away... the engine's probably ruined. Send it in to the warrantee center and hopefully they will replace it.

siclick33

It is possible that the glow plug has come into contact with the head (which glow plug are you using?) but I am guessing that if you bought the plug at the same time this is not likely.

I agree with FHHuber that if you have run the engine like this it is probably damaged. Unfortunately you may have voided your warranty by removing the head (don't tell them you did this unless they ask!).

Did you remove the head before you run the engine. It is possible that it wasn't re-assembled correctly and might cause your problem. OS 32s are not know for their power but ARE known for their reliability/ease of use. Mistakes in manufacturing can cause occasional defects but thankfully these are relatively uncommon. Be careful how tight you do up the head bolts, if you strip the thread the engine will be badly damaged.

Are you sure the metal noise is due to the piston touching the head? New engines are tight at the top (they need to be or they will not work) and it goes without saying that if you undo the bolts there will be less 'tightness'. You are, in effect, reducing the compression.

Have you run model engines before? Are you sure that this noise isn't normal? Are you sure it isn't something completely unconnected (like a loose muffler)?

A quick check to see if it is the glow plug touching the piston is to remove the plug and turn the engine over by hand. You can also look through the hole and see if it looks like the piston is hitting something (I doubt it though).

Best advice is to show it to someone who has knowledge of model engines!

FHHuber

I have NEVER (in 30+ years0 seen an engine that made a clanking nioise that didn't self-destruct if left to run. Only automtive diesels are allowed to ping without the owner needing to IMMEDIATELY get it serviced.

The piston is hitting something...or the con rod is striking something or the con rod bearings have excess slop (and the rod will soon shatter) or some other major problem is going on for it to make any noise that sons like its hitting something.

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HOWEVER::::
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Are you sure the noise is from the engine and not the clutch bell? a misaligned clutch bell will clang.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

What would ever posess you to start an engine that you thought had a problem like this? Even worse, what would posess you to run it with the head bolts loose enough to cause it to leak like a siv?

I would suggest getting help. From the sounds of it, its too late to save that one, but he can show you how to get parts to fix it and then run it right.

Man, definately get help flying and setting up that heli. If you fly the heli with the same attitude, your going to kill someone.

grittykitty

Want a good clue about his attitude towards helis?

Check out this thread.....

[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Radio_Setup%25%25%25_PLEASE_HELP%21%21%21%21/m_1503311/tm.htm[/link]

siclick33

I think that we need to help out here! I agree that Pathogen really needs someone to help him/her.

However, what is really obviously dangerous to you and I may not be to a newbie. In my job I am forever asked 'why did you not ask before you did that?' well, because I didn't know it was wrong so why would I ask.

If we are not careful then this guy may give up on the forum and really go it alone. This could have bad consequences for safety.

As distant observers we don't really know what is wrong with his engine. A clanking to you might be a clonking to someone else might be a sweet sounding engine to another person.

Pathogen, let us know what you find. I for one am interested to know. If you still need help, keep asking!

Pathogens

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for everyone that has helped..

Why would I run an engine like this. As stated above, this engine is new, why would I have any other reason to think that something was wrong with this engine? Its an OS.

Secondly, grittykitty, I would like to know what exactly my attitude is??


To close this out. I took the engine to a professional. We came to the conclusion that the head had came over torqued right from O.S. and caused the piston sleeve to smudge down on the crankcase. So, whenever the piston would come up, It would have to fit in an already small shaft. now made even smaller by the smudged piston sleeve. hence the metal on metal pinging sound that i was hearing.

Weird Huh?

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

the head bolts will break before its over torqued. and what is the torque rating for those head bolts and do you have a torque wrench to tighten the the ne head and stuff?

FHHuber

By definition... you have to overtorque a bolt to break it. Try again.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

ok what i was try to get across is that with those bolts/screws you will not be able to tighten them enough to force the sleeve down against the aluminum cylinder.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Ok, looked at the other thread listed, I have a question for you Pathogens. First, how old are you? I am guessing between 14 and 17. That doesn't matter to me, I am just wondering.

Ok, as far as setup, have you gone through the manual and set every pitch linkage in it to the exact lenght the book says. It gives you a very good list that states exactly to the mm what lenght each should be at. The radios books usually suck to set up the radio part. It sounds like you got some help with that which is good.

If there is a problem with the engine making strange noises, I would send it in before messing with it so you don't void the warrenty. Hopefully from the sounds of it, someone helped you get that fixed.

As for flying it, don't try to fly it right away. After you have gotten everything set up, tie it down to something heavy so it can't fly. Then start it, and you can let everything spin and make sure things are lined up right. You want to make sure the blades track propperly, which means one blade doesn't fly higher int he track than the other. If one does, you adjust the link on that one to make it come back in line. Most people put a piece of colored tape on one tip so they can see which one is doing what. then you want to make sure the cyclic pitch goes in the right directions, left makes the left tip of the disc drop, right goes right, forward makes the leading edge of the rotor disc go down and so forth. Then you can check the tail rotor to make sure it goes the right way. You can move it left with the stick and the nose should show that it wants to rotate left.

Once you are sure everything is set up, then put training gear on. I have my students use kids bike flag sticks. Get two, cut each in half. Put one on each skid pointing front to back, then one cross ways like a tic tac toe board. Use zip ties to hold them on. Put wiffle balls on the end held on with fuel line on each side.

Get the thing just light enough on the gear to move. Don't lift off. Learn to move it around on the ground (clean pavement) and get to where you can put it where you want to. then lift it about an inch and do it again. After you can get it to move where you want in all directions, then lift about a foot and do it again.

Have patients. Don't try to go too fast. If you try to lift it too high too fast, you will break it. If at all possible, have someone that knows helis check your setup. You will be glad you did.

Hope that helps some.

Good luck. Remember, if you get impatient, you will break it.

Pathogens

My Feedback: (1)

How old am I, do you think that I am some stupid child.... Come on.. I work on H-60 Helos in the real world for a living. I just dont know alot about the setup of radio controled ones.. and Instead of going out there and just throwing some crap together and hope that It works, I post on here and try and learn but I get dogged and talked to like a little child.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Not dogging you intentionally, you just sounded like a kid that used to come here who was overly enthused, but usually did things without thinking. Was just wondering if it was him again under a different name.

The reason you came across that way is he wouldn't look at the instructions.

As I stated in the other post, make sure the linkages are all set to the correct lengths, and then follow the rest. That will help at least get you started. Yell if you need more help. Hope that helps some. Hard to set it up for you over the computer. Thats why you have to get it set up per the book first.

The linkage lengths are given in mm in the book.

polyhedron_12

Well, Ill tell you what I just did. I tried to start my heli the other day and had some problems. I took my os32 engine out to inspect, turned it over a few times and heard a clank when the piston was fully extended. Played with it for a while and somehow the clank went away, then I went to bed. Picked up the engine and then the clank was back???? What was wrong. Nothing!!!!!

OS32's, from what I understand, are ABC engines and the tolerances are very tight. This sometimes leads to the clanking noise and a "hitch" in the motor when the piston is fully extended, it's perfectly normal, just run it. As long as you didn't have any metal shavings or anything in your engine, or have an oversized glow plug that hit your piston, I'm pretty sure you are okay.

Also, what you can do is set up a test bench and run the thing for a while to make sure everything works well. That's what I did since I was not sure that the advice I had been given was actually true.




The above engine illustrates where I felt the hitch in the motor when I turned the crankshaft, and when I crossed these hitches, I sometimes heard a clank.

To mount the prop to my engine, I took off the clutch and fan, then put a brass washer, 2" spinner base, prop, steel washer, then the nut. Then I put the spinner cap on. Used the torqmaster to start the engine. Also I made a linkage to control the throttle from a safe distance from the prop, MAN THAT THING SPINS FAST! Make sure you put the nut on tight! If you don't, when starting, you will unscrew the nut with the starter by accident. Also be very careful. I used a 9-7 prop.

siclick33

The ABC engines are tight at the top. The tightness reduces as they heat up and the materials expand.

Pathogens

My Feedback: (1)

I now have 2 OS 32 engines...One, my old one, is the one that I started this for. My new one, is just fine.. Even after my old one (the broken one) warms up, the engine still sounds terriable compared to my nice smooth purr of my new engine.

no metal shavings.

I have mixed feelings on this.

I am telling ya.. the engine sounds like crap..but it runs!!!