What's to stop them from sending a photo of a perfectly built part.

Well,

That's not the point. If they took the trouble to take a photo of a perfectly built part, then that means at least they've built a perfectly good part!

If the internals of the F-14 wing from that previous thread were photo-documented before closing up the skin (especially if the buyer could see them in advance), don't you suppose he would have said, "Hey, guys, I'm not satisfied that this wing will hold under load." Then maybe they send the factory some suggestions (like they did subsequent to the failure test) and the product gets better.

Under what circumstance would they deliberately take a pic of one thing, then send another? If that did happen, and there was a failure, the buyer is still left on a much better footing for a refund if he's got photographic evidence that he was sold something different than he thought he was buying, right?

The point is not just what's in the pic, the point is that they'll HAVE TO do a better job in construction if they have to account for what's on the inside BEFORE a crash.

I know of several here in California that have been flying for years with no issues.
Also Know Pablo has put the smack down on this plane for many flights, with no problems...

This is what lead me to buy mine.. I used thread lock on the elevator u joint set screws and also noticed going through the build thread that my new version did not look like what I was seeing in the older threads. It had extra nylon washers and was a very tight nice looking unit.

I have three flight on mine and it's a very good flyer, I have had power system issues. But no fault to the plane.
Maybe there is an issue, but all planes can have an issue.... it may just be a few planes that had the problem. How can you through a blanket statement that they are all crap when so many are flying well?

I have looked mine over and it feels very solid to me, I'll fly it and hope for the best just like any other plane... shxt happens.
For $950 bucks this is still an amazing plane, you get a lot of plane for the money. It's a great flyer and has proven many many flights from other pilots.

I'm sad to see this happened but don't feel it's fair to toss Jet Legend under the bus when only they really know what is under the skin.
I hope for many flight from mine


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkSYmYvkTQo[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVXJKfagL10&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]

This is the first thing said that makes sense. You get what you pay for, and if you can't pay then maybe you shouldn't play. Your dealing with the Chinese here, they are notoriously dishonest and only if there is a solid American company behind the product do you stand a chance of having something made to an exceptable level of quality. And you thought wallstreet was bad?

Jet Legend does provide a nice set of plans with the plane.
I used this to add a hatch to the top of my wing in the saddle area for access to do the gear doors. I can tell you that based off the plans the ribs were exactly where stated on the plans.
I also used the plans to find the hardwood in the flaps and ailerons to install the control horns and these again where dead on... the dashed wood on the plans is harwood. I found the hardwood in the flaps and alierons to be very hard and not soft at all.

Here is some pics of the structure from the plans on the stab
I'm not saying the plan doesn't have an issue, just that many are flying safe...and this may just be a few that had issues or linkange, servo issues

Sorry...

You don't get what you pay for. That's the whole point... You're paying for a model airplane that you reasonably expect to be designed properly. You often get far less than that.

Im bout to say something I thought I would never say lol. As much as I dont like Bob Violet, I have to admit, I dont think he ever had an issue like this with his jets. The man has spent the time and money to put fourth a quality airframe. OMG. I cant believe I just defended the man.

I also have to say, Ive owned two YA F-4's and both with flying stabs. I never had an issue with either. If its done right, it wont fail.

Now, Im going to go and drink a beer and find some reason why I just complimented BV LMAO

Seriously, R & D is costly, but, if you want to create a name for yourself and your future, it has to be done. If you do it right, you do it just once The rest is reaping the bounty.

Think about that next time you order a $900 ARF that someone buit that probably hasnt even seen a real jet before let alone an RC model

WBG

All opinions aside, I am curious as to the reply from JL.

What JL rep are you using? Are they also aware of what you "think" is the problem?

Was the airframe inspected post crash to try and determine the exact cause of the crash?

It happens to BVM too, electra fails:

http://www.bvmjets.com/pages/kits/el...al_failure.htm

fly eagle fails:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_92...tm.htm#9236143

BVM Bandit fails:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_30...tm.htm#3022822

Ultra bandit wing fails:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10490123


It happens to them all, it's a high risk hobby... but well worth it to me. I'm not defending jet legend, just showing that this can happen to any plane, no matter who built it



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgQQiyWmLH4[/youtube]

The Jet Legend T45 is designed for 12 to 18 lb thrust per the manual published on the Jet Legend web site. A 31lb thrust turbine is just asking for trouble. In no way is the airframe designed for such a power plant. If no one was hurt in the accident, you were lucky.

Paul S

We do run the throttle on a proportional channel you know. This means full power was used for take off or bailout from a low flyby or vertical.
Now if you insist,bring me one for a ride with a P60 , give me one minute till i get airborne and i can give you a failure.

Is unfair to highlight engines max thrust specially when you see engines as an investment this days.
If i had a plane of that size... IMHO any engine rather than the new p100rx would be wasted money.

I have seen at least two JL Hawks go in due to elevator failure. In both cases the tail broke in some way in flight, one of them loosing the whole elevator. On the other the incidence pegs, as previously described, were into balsa! That said the original SM Hawk did exactly the same thing. I lost mine in exactly this way and another guy in the club did too. I then Bought a FB Hawk (basically the same model with more paint on it). I took the tailplane apart to prevent it doing the same thing. Junk building inside.
All the chinese brands have issues, and there is some rolling of the dice when you buy.
That said, there are a lot of JL models in my club, and other than the above mentioned Hawk, and the F20 discussed on this Forum last year, there have been no fatal failures.

Thank you JohnMac you have just confirmed my post #3 in this thread
I will definitely cut mine open and post photos when I do!

[quote]ORIGINAL: Ron101

It happens to BVM too, electra fails:

http://www.bvmjets.com/pages/kits/el...al_failure.htm

fly eagle fails:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_92...tm.htm#9236143

BVM Bandit fails:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_30...tm.htm#3022822

Ultra bandit wing fails:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10490123


It happens to them all, it's a high risk hobby... but well worth it to me. I'm not defending jet legend, just showing that this can happen to any plane, no matter who built it




Ron in your post you put the perfect example of why you fly BVM. On the elctra link is the fix for the problem. JLs website says nothing about the elevator failures and how to fix them.

Also keep in mind the electra failure was with a faster then stock fan at faster speeds flown by a BVM rep to test the limits so the cutomer does not have to.

On the ultra bandit that was a unmaned drone that was flying at a much higher weight then our planes fly at. So a very poor example. If BVM has a problem with something like that he will make a fix for it and publish it on his website. Other manufactures should take note and do the same.

I rememeber when the Ebandit first came out. Did BVM take it around the patch a few times then start selling them like the chinese manufactures? No he gave it to Pablo and let him beat the dog snot out of it to find problems with the plane before it was into production. (BTW He did find problems)

Hi Rich,
I dremelled out the tailplane root without damaging the skin. Then I wiggled the tailplane pivot until it broke free. After that I removed all the balsa bits inside. Then I used the JL mechanism and tailplane pivot rods as (provided the bolts are tightened up), this mechanism is much better than the crap SM/FB system. I drilled new holes for the anti rotation pins, horizontally not vertically. This meant I could make them much longer. I then laminated a new plywood root rib with the long anti rotaion pin buried inside. A small ply internal rib was added at the tip of the rod and then the tailplane was slid over it like a glove. Finally I made some card templates for the tailplane dihedral angle, centred and locked the servo with the rods clamped in, and hysoled the tailplane in place. That never failed.
Good luck with it. Well worth doing.
BTW, I should make it clear that the FB Hawk was the same as the early SM Hawk, not the JL one.
John

Just been lurking and reading here, having no prior knowledge at all of JL T-45's, but all I can say is HOLY CRAP!!!!!

I assumed the 'anti-rotation' pins were horizontal from the get-go. I cannot believe a manufacturer would think a vertical orientation in a thin stab would allow for adequate length of the anti-rotation pins and sufficient support from the wood mount blocks for the pins (especially if the wood is balsa!) Good grief.

Seems to me John's mod here would be a mandatory "Airworthiness Directive" for the JL T-45. Horizontally oriented anti-rotation pins that can be made nice and long seems like a no-brainer.

Sluggo

If you look at my plans from jet legend that I posted above they show a horizontal anti rotation pin

Maybe that's the way they are, then. I based my comments on JohnMac's post, thinking JL has been orienting the pins vertically.

I'll go back to lurking....

A vertical anti-rotation pin, consisting of a hardened M3 metal bolt with penny washers on each side would have probably worked better !

Thank you very much for the explanation John, I was going to cut a section out of the skin, make the repair and then replace the skin.
I'll look at your way first


Randy, sorry for the confusion, John and I were talking about the FB Hawk, not the Jet Legend. If FB is using vertical pins..SHAME on them!

However his approach could be applied to the JL parts i.e. remove the balsa and replace with plywood and Hysol

Rich, yes, I see that now. I didn't read the post carefully enough. Sorry for creating any confusion here, gents.

What you can't tell from the plans is if the rib (between the blue lines)is balsa or plywood.It should be plywood but ifit isbalsait should have plywood doublers to absorb the load. The plans don't show a root rib either. Is there a root rib? If so, is it made from balsa or plywood?

Also, the pin doesn't go through the full length rib (denoted by yellow circle). Because of this, the loads aren't transferred across the chord of the stab and the area around the balsa block is taking the full load which doesn't look strong enough to handle the load.

If it were me, Iwould get rid of the balsa block, build a plywood box around the rotation pin tieing it to the root rib, full length rib, andspar. Iwould make sure the root rib and full lengthwere ply or at least had plywood doublers, andmake sure the pin went through the full length rib.

Kirk

Paul S,
<style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }</style><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">If your are talking about my plane that crashed it was flying on a Kingtech K80 as I wrote in my first post wich gives max 18 lb of thrust in the limits of what the airplane manufacturer suggests.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">Were did you see the 31 lbs of thrust</p>

kordi:

Not refering to your set up. 31lbs is in post 49 on page 2.

Paul S

Here's a drawing of what I descibed above for how Iwould fix what the plans show,

The black denotes the plywood ribs and box around the rotation pin. The blue denotes a plywood plate on the top and bottom tieing the plywood box to the spar. The plates would encapsulate the rear section of the anti-rotation pin. Ileft the pin visible for clar ity.