...and 5ooo down to the drain.

Starting from here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10281800
this was my friends toy and he had fun with it for 10 flights until the elevator deside to leave the aircraft a week ago.


Why i made this post?...i think as a modeler i owe feedback/advice to modelers as when i started and had it from them.
The ones you will find diferent reasons from that because i represent another manufactor,go ahead and nock your self out...i realy dont care.


..forgive my poor english

George, what engine your friend was using?

So what failed, this is a full flying stab, did the stab separate from the pivot pin?

Do you have any photos of the failed stab?

If the pin separated from the stab this has been an issue will other flying stabs from some of the other China built model manufacturers, in the past they have used soft balsa blocks to contain the pivot pin.

I have made a decision that from now on I will not trust a flying stab unless I investigate the internal construction either by getting an X-Ray or cutting the structure open...

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="line-height: 115%; font-size: 10pt">My T-45 Jetlegend had a K80 kingtech inside and as RCISFUN wrote the pin separated from the stab in mid air with 10 people from our club watching and trying to understand what happened.
Please note that the plane was flying with moderate speed puling up after alow speed dive and as you can imagine with no stab the plane crashed to the ground an nothing was saved including all servos 3x7955TG,3xJR3421,power box, airpower EVO multi function valve and My K80 turbine.</span></div>

Hi Kordi

I am sorry for your lost[sm=disappointed.gif]

Your elevator mechanism was the modified one (from Global jet club) or was the included from Jetlegend?

Regards

Miltiadis

This is a photo before and after the crash:

before
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/beforey.jpg/


After
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/afterbh.jpg/

The mechanism was the modified one from Global jet club and it did not fail after the crash the servo that was used is a7955TG

I have hear two other cases with the same problem and result...

the problem, as they told me, was that the two Anti Rotation Pins werent secured into the wood work, which was light balsa (not adequate enough for the elevator), very little glue on any joint has results in the 8mm Shaft twisitng out of the stab structure.

hope this help you understand what went wrong...

Regards

Miltiadis

Manufacturers should pay for this kind a thing when it is manufacturer related and can be proven. They make a product and do not do adequate testing and use the public to do there testing at the customers expense . When and aircraft is released for production rigorous testing should be done to eleminate all problems then sell it to the public. I beleive sometimes some of these people who design do not fly and do not understand the power of some of our models. I had a problem with a mufacturer from Germany one . They release a kit and mix the clevises metric and standard threads . The aircraft crashed but the company replaced it with a brand new model .

Only my view on this incident.

This is exactly what was meant by my post

So to prevent this from happening you ("you" meaning anyone who purchases a model) need to cut open the stab to inspect/repair, now I realize that this shouldn't be required by the modeler and the manufacture "Should do it right the first time", but it has been proven in the past to be a week spot.

With that being said, IMHO due diligence as a pilot of "YOUR" model requires you to verify this potential weak spot before flying said model.

You got my vote for "best rc joke ever"


....RCISFUN , IMHO this spot its manifactures rensposibility.I dont open my receivers to check the welding spots or my engines to check the bearings.I have already paid to receive them "ready to run"!

I have recently lost two Jet legend jets with what I believe due to structural problems. One Mig 29 & their large F15. I cannot prove anything, have no photographs, so I will ensure that it never happens again by avoiding purchasing anything from this company.
I will not get further involved in this discussion, just wanted to mention my experience.

This is really interesting. I had a Jet Legend T-45 that I lost on flight number two. It was flying level at a good speed and medium-high power setting when it just rolled over on its back and when in. It was *not* a tip stall and I figured it was either an aileron or elevator servo failure. I had the modified stab control mechanism from GJC with one servo per stab. My main thought on cause was a stab servo failure - I was thinking that heat might have played a role, but I was very careful to insulate the stab servos as others had done and shown here on RCU.

Now I'm thinking that its likely that I had a failure on one of the stabs that caused the death roll... Oh well, not much I can do now, but its good to know that there may have been a cause that I couldn't control (I had no idea this was a problem with these jets way back then...).

Bob

This was not meant as a joke as suggested, this is very serious, there is a situation that there is doubt with the construction of a component of a model.

I agree in a perfect world the manufacture should not be producing sub standard components and should take responsibility; however, we live in a far from perfect world!

What should the modeler do if they already own the model? Do you think the manufacturer will take it back... I don't think so!

Should the modeler gamble and just fly it knowing that there is an issue... guess what that make the modeler just as liable as the manufacturer!
It's call negligence.

So my suggestion is do your due diligence and inspect the suspect components, make repairs or ground the model until the problem is reasonably solved.

Of course anyone who has not purchased a kit yet from said manufacturer who is worried about the quality, it's very simple "Don't Buy It!"

Rich ,

my "joke"coment was for " quote:ORIGINAL: Squirrelboyblue "if you carefully read my post .

As for your suggestion ..ill bite.
How often you suggest and how you inspect the stracture IN your wings and IN your elevators?..since i see in your gallery you own the same jet?
What procedure you follow?

Sorry George
I must have misread your post, but now I'll quote you "if you carefully read my post "

What I was trying to convey is if there is a known issue brought to light then the inspection would be once to verify if the structure is sound

Let me be clear, I'm not trying to defend any manufacture, however the sad truth is they most likely will leave you standing holing the bag of broken parts when something fails.

Unfortunately I do not have my JL T-45, it crashed due to my own fault, tip stall when I tried to turn after a flame out...duh![:@]

The airframe had around 100 flights on it prior to that as it was owned by Maj. Woody who put a ton of flights on it.

Now what I do have is a FB T-45 (early production kit, actually it is the very one shown in the manual) and believe me I will be inspecting the flying stabs, I have personally witness a FB F-5 crash due to the pins being placed into balsa (An early production Kit), this is what lead me to decide to inspect the T-45 stabs before I fly it even though this airframe has been flown by another RCU member.

It's funny to me because obviously none of these companies have been involved in any sort of civil litigation. If there is a known structural defect that causes an accident that was operated in the mannor for which it was designed and it causes injury it would fall on them. It amazes me that these companies find they have an issue and rely on the end user to fix.

They do have a lot of outs though being able to redirect blame due to any other cause.

As far as I'm concerned the plane should be sent back to the manufacturer for a refund.

Sorry you loss your jet.May I suggest a bore scope for your inspections.I use them all the time at work and they are a great aid.You can drill a small hole into the root forward and aft of the pivot shaft and take a peek in side.Again sorry to hear about another crash caused like this.

Hi,

Post after post; thread after thread. Same problems. Same results. Why, oh why do these guys get away with this? Wait... I know... because we keep buying.

We (the jet-modelling community) should formulate and sign an electronic petition and deliver it to every major overseas manufacturer of jet-powered ARFs. The notice should basically state that from now on, a detailed, progressive photo-documentation of the installation/fabrication of the critical structures (that we can't see without an x-ray) is considered a basic, REQUIRED item and we want it in the box with the ARF. When they get ready to glue that top skin onto the wings and stabs, they take a pic first. When they get ready to close up the area that contains the stab shaft, they take a pic of the anti-rotation pin in all its structurally adequate glory FIRST. Same with the gear mounts, etc. It won't cost them more than a few extra minutes during the construction and a few pages of color copying. Heck, we can even stipulate that they may jack the price up five or ten bucks to cover that (as it's a small price to pay for a little extra peace-of-mind).

This way, if you were interested in ARF "X", you could ask for an emailed file with those pics and know BEFORE you buy that there's glue on your ribs/spars and that your shaft isn't going to crack a glue joint and start rotating in the stab. If we, the end-users, collectively demand that, then wouldn't that motivate them to build it properly?

Just a thought...

Great idea, and some do to a certain extent.

http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...omponents.html

Exactly why I bought my latest plane from CARF.

I love my Eurosport and my Flash (when I had it) too. However, when I originally got my Euro (5 years or so ago), it had a design flaw in the gear plate mounting such that any non-perfect landing would knock the plates loose and drive them up through the top of the wing. Sure enough, it happened to mine. I applied the fix that Todd published on his web page and its been a super jet ever since.

Trust me though, I've been inside my Euro wing and you could not see the required reinforcement in the picture below, so nice as it is, it doesn't tell the story - and even good manufacturers like Comp-ARF and BVM are not immune...

Bob

Not saying CARF is perfect, no company (regardless of industry) is, but the perception is that they have much higher standards than other ARF companies. I don't think that is by accident.

Agreed. I don't think though that the pictures that they provide are enough to prove that their structure is sufficient and I'm not sure that even pictures to the level that Sean suggests is enough.

Bob

How would you know for sure if the pictures sent are of the same airframe you were purchasing?

The only real way to have piece of mind is to build the plane yourself.

Kirk