HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks guys, it's not the Tx I am referring to as I can cope with programming that no bother and I read the manual over a year ago, but it's the CBs and RSATs. The thread has a lot of posts trying to work out what path system to use, whether or not it recognises an rsat is off line and so on. Goose and others seem to be having to experiment to find out how the system behaves and then come back and write the rules. That's not a safe way of dealing with a complex system that might have some hidden behaviours! Nobody seems to be referring to a Jeti manual about setting the CBs and RSATs, hence my question.

Mark I wish I had realised you were using Jeti, i would have had a look at your setup at Merryfield on Saturday.

gooseF22

Harry,

If one were new in RC, he/she could program and operate this radio using just the manual effectively..

We started this thread specifically to cater to the jet community, who are advanced users by definition..

As we began to use the system in the US, we found additional ideas and capability from the system, as well as ways to further enhance reliability and safety..

When we find something to look at, we contact Jeti and our reps to discuss.. Those things do go into the manual at the next revision if necessary.. If you download tx 3.0 manual, you will see expanded explanations.. as well as the Jeti notes..

Our job as field reps and beta testers is do just that, figure out what can be done, how its done, and request minor tweaks of the system.. I have been in involved in avionics development for most of the latter part of my previous Career, and thats how its done there.. the operational community provides feedback, and the engineering group looks at the implementation of it..

This radio is an amazing accomplishment.. they raised the bar so high in one shot, then did it again, and recently again.. the regular contributors of this thread were hardcore brand F and J for many years, but we saw value for ourselves, and agreed to help educate our buddies in the process..

I think the biggest change in this radio programming over others, is the decoupling of the functions from the output.. All the fancy mixing is done via functions, then the output is mapped to the free mixers, then to the servo outputs.. in that order.. So you don't have to worry about outputs until the end of programming.. It also allows any switch to control any function, and any function to control another.. It allows switches to be logical, additive, mixed, or proportional.. with all those options, our imaginations can be unlocked.. Finally having duplexing telemetry that can also be used to switch things, is icing on the cake..


All fair questions, Keep reading and asking.. goose

LA jetguy

Excellent Goose.... I could not have said it any better.... Until you actually have a Jeti system you will not appreciate the information on this thread or others...

Make a move to professional grade system and leave the consumer grade systems behind.....

David

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

It isn't new, it's copied from how the radios I have been using for decades (Multiplex) have been programmed, but that's not the point of this thread.
My point was that you seem to be doing far more than tweaking some obscure edges, there are so many posts about the CB and rsats and lost signal alarms and how to get them to work and why aren't they working etc, and no-one has referred anyone to page X of the manual that it reads as if there is no clear manual from Jeti that you plug X into Y and it works, and that you go off and do lots of experimenting to find out what CB and rsat settings make what behaviour.

Mark Vandervelden

The Tx manual and the manuals for the CB, RSats and RXs "Do" tell you were to plug X into Y, give recommendations and options of how you can have them communicate with each other always resulting in a solid and reliable RC link. Its then up to the end user to adopt these options and tweak the system to there liking and that's were guidance from forums like comes into play as the variable's are then personal choice. The bottom line is Jeti gives a very solid RF link in its basic setup with all the options to control and monitor as many of the bells and whistles as you could wish for.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

So if I just plug 1 or 2 rsats into a CB or the rx that take rsats, it works and the Tx gets clearly understandable telemetry warnings about which one has lost signal or got low signal, if that should happen?

Does the telemetry recording show the signal per rsat or even better per individual aerial wire thus allowing you to review how each position behaves after a flight, or just an overall level?

flymanjg

My Feedback: (18)

Has anyone set up crow on the Jeti DS16 yet. If possible a step by step would be helpful. Thanks.

gooseF22

use the butterfly menu to set up crow.. I also use it for flaps and elevator adjustments.. all in one function.. I use the flight modes switch to control flaps and crow.. just map the butterfly function to the same switch used for flt modes/flaps

gooseF22

Harry, Yes to both.. In a central box setup.. all the telemetry that the Cbox generates plus all the telemetry that the receiver receives is available for the transmitter to display.. The central box shows up under the explorer for the primary transmitter, and the secondary receiver shows up under it..

The receivers and Cbox have built in alarms, but the transmitter can intercept any telemetry stream and alarm from it as well.. I prefer to use mostly transmitter generated alarms..


good questions.. and yes the jeti has some roots in the multiplex system

flymanjg

My Feedback: (18)

Thanks.

Mark Vandervelden

Hi Harry
You would have to configure and bind the sats but that's all done on the Tx, takes about 2 minuets.
Its not like Spektrum were you just plug in and bind but then the sats are not "dum RXs" and have far more capability's.
Once any RX or sat is bound to your Tx it will remember it in whatever setup you make in the future and just ask if you want to use it.

Without any extra ancillary's you would have available for display, Rx voltage or in the case of the CB both inputs and the amps used.
With Rx aerial telemetry you would have the choice of each sats signal strength displayed in %. and each aerials strength from 9-0
Regarding loss of signal alarm you get "std" a choice of none, one sat, or both sats.
According to a earlier post you can configure the sats so you get signal loss or strength individually with different alarms sounded for each but I haven't tried that yet

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (4)

I took a vacation day today as Goose was in town for a 20 hour layover and we thought this would be a great time to 1) Experiment with the built-in wireless buddy box system, and 2) burn some kero. Neither of us had used the teacher/student mode so we tried it out first on a couple of foamies before trying it on a jet. Setting up the radios is fast and simple (it took a lot less time to do it than to type out the steps). The jet was a bit more complicated because we first had to clone a receiver (more about that below). We did find a couple of things of note, so we figured we post the procedures and some suggestions.

Setup Both Radios for a plane with a Single Receiver (eg foamie T-28 with R5).
- The transmitter and receiver have previously been bound in Default mode.
- With the plane OFF....
1) Turn on both transmitters and in both go to Advanced Properties -> Wireless Modes/Trainer, select
2) Change the mode in the instructor's transmitter to "Teacher" and the mode in the Student's transmitter to "Student"
3) In the instructor's transmitter, scroll to "Pair secondary TX module". In the student's transmitter, scroll to "Pair primary TX module". Press select on both transmitters to bind them to each other.
4) In the instructor's transmitter, scroll up to trainer switch and select to choose what switch you want to use to pass control to the student. We recommend a two-position spring loaded switch. I used the long 2-position spring loaded switch installed in the Sd location on my DC-16 which is normally used to tell me the time remaining.
5) In the instructor transmitter, scroll down so that the aileron line is highlighted (in black), press select, press select again to put a check mark in the box to enable passing aileron control to the student. Press esc. Scroll down and repeat this procedure for Elevator, Rudder, and Throttle to enable these functions for the student.

Option: You can also pass the Emulated Controls (any other channels, knobs, switches, etc) to the student but we don't recommend it. Frankly, it's easy to envision a case where a switch (like retracts, flaps, or gyro mode) were in different positions on the two transmitters and this can be confusing. We found it was simpler for the student to call out "Gear Up" or "Heading Hold" and for the instructor to flip the switch.

6) Test the setup by holding the trainer switch and have the student provide stick input on each axis. You should see the little bar graphs (to the right of each check box) move showing the student's inputs.

- Now you can turn the plane on. The instructor's transmitter will link up with the plane. Test all of the controls using the instructor's transmitter, then flip the switch to pass control to the student and the student move the controls. Rather than just wiggling the sticks, test that up gives up, down gives down, left gives left, and right gives right. Have fun!

Setup Both Radios for a Plane with Two Receivers (eg a jet with R14 primary and R5 satellite)
- The plane had been previously bound in Dual Path with the R14 bound to the primary TX module and the satellite bound to the secondary TX module. Because the wireless buddy box system uses the secondary transmitter module in the instructor's transmitter to communicate with the student's transmitter, you can no longer bind the instructor's secondary transmitter module to the satellite receiver. As such, we decided to turn the satellite receiver into a clone. While you lose the telemetry from the satellite, at least you maintain antenna diversity and a PPM stream from the satellite just in case your primary receiver loses it's link.

Before you can perform steps 1) to 6) above, you first have to set up the satellite receiver as a clone. Here are the steps...
1) In the instructor's transmitter, go to Advanced Properties - > Wireless modes/Trainer, and change the Mode to Default
2) Disconnect the servo wire that carries the PPM signal from the satellite output port. Insert a bind plug in the satellite EXT port. Use a spare battery to power up the receiver. Bind the transmitter (in Default mode) to the satellite. Using Applications -> Jetibox or a separate Jetibox Profi, put the satellite receiver in Clone mode. Remove the bind plug and battery to power off the satellite.

- Now Turn the plane ON.
3) In the instructor's transmitter, go to Advanced Properties - > Wireless modes/Trainer, and change the Mode to Teacher. Bind the primary TX module to the R14 (primary receiver) in the plane. Since you haven't yet reconnected the PPM servo wire t the satellite, the R14 receiver will be giving an S-Alarm (loss of PPM stream) from the previous setup. Work through the alarm, it will be over soon enough.
4) Reconnect the PPM servo wire back into the satellite receiver's PPM out port. The S-alarm will stop. Note, if you had a sensor(s) connected to the satellite receiver, the telemetry data will not be sent back to the transmitter because the satellite is in clone mode.
Turn the plane OFF.

Now that the plane is set up with the clone receiver connected, you can now bind the radios to each other and test per steps 1) - 6) above.

Regards,

Jim and Goose

P.S., It's easy to take a "selfie" while flying a jet as long as you are holding the trainer switch. If your finger slips off the switch, it gets "exciting" very quickly and the phone gets dropped.

LA jetguy

Jim... Have you figure out how to pass flight modes to the student... I have setup everything exactly like you described.. Flight mode switch is Sa which also controls flaps.... When I bind teacher / student, the student Sa switch controls the flaps but other controls associated with flight modes do not get executed from student TX ... Teacher Sa switch has control of flight modes... What I do is I ask the student to trigger Sa switch at the same time I do ( while student still has control) so the student has flight mode trims executed

Please see if you can duplicate that and if so any suggestions ...

Thanks


David

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (4)

David, what "other controls are associated with flight modes" are not getting executed?

Jim

LA jetguy

In butterfly menu I have elevator compensation when flaps are deployed (each flap position has different elevator trim). as well as crow... Those will not get executed when student triggers Sa switch (flight mode switch)

Thanks Jim

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (4)

David,

It's likely a stupid question but I have to ask; did you pass control of Sa to the student via the Emulated Controls selections on the Wireless Modes/Trainer page. My understanding is that the student's transmitter simply passes the switch position back to the instructor transmitter (like the positions of the gimbals) and that all processing (rates, expo, mixing, modes, etc) is done in the instructor's transmitter based on those inputs.

Regards,

Jim

LA jetguy

Jim... I did not explore the "emulated Controls"... I have to see how that works and how to pass on full control of Sa switch to student...

That could be the answer I'm looking for...

gooseF22

Ok..
With Joe Nall complete.. I unfortunately did not get to go this year due to my daughter graduating from Purdue, however as far as I know, Jeti equipment operated at all the flight lines..

None of the reps and flyers using the equipment had any issues that I know of.. I have polled the team members and flyers and as far as we know, everything was flawless..

Thats great news, not that I was expecting anything, but just confirmation.. Joe Nall had 1300+ flyers from what I heard.. That is an extremely RF hostile environment..

gooseF22

Had a little time today to check out MSpeed Gryo control.. Its actually much simpler than previously discussed..

MX1 should be set up as a proportional control as follows:

-Pick your speeds, and convert to m/s.. I wanted my gain to reduce by 50% overall from about 100mph to 200+.. so I used 45m/s and 90m/s
-Set up the speeds in the mspeed as 45, 68, 90
-Set the filter to 3 for now
-Set default to zero
-Don't assign a switch

If you blow air on the tube, it will show a proportional value from -100 to +100, so it acts like a knob..

Gryo Gain..

-Assuming you have your gain set up already, for each gyro mode, you select MX1 under the tuning menu FOR EACH MODE you want to reduce..
--Use the proportional switch mode on the switch selector (deselect center)
-Then pick your reduction value, I used 50% positive because Im using cortex with negative gain..
-then using the gain in the left window, say 60%, it will gradually reduce that gain to 30% as your speed goes from 45m/s to 90m/s..
--It will reduce the amount and you will see it reduce in the bold number, and servo output as well..


--Its too easy, but remember when you adjust the reduction, you have to adjust it for each gyro position, 1/2/3 if set up that way.. In my case I only used cruise to reduce it because with flaps down or full down, I don't want reduction, just when going fast

Remember I put out a gyro kill switch earlier, if anything happens, it will kill ANY gain because it is a post gyro control mix onto itself.. so thats my bailout switch in case anything happens

Oh, one last thing.. If the Jet is turned off, the default value of the Mspeed MX1 is Zero.. when you turn the jet on, it goes to -100m or you can set the default to -100, and it will show correctly with sensor off

cheers
Goose

LA jetguy

Dave... Can you post some pictures from you screen.. Would really help to understand the concept above better...

Thanks

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (4)

LAjetguy,

One of the alleged advantages of the iGyro is that it can be connected to a GPS module to provide for automatic adjustment of the gyro gain based on the ground speed of the model (high speed - low gain, low speed - high gain). Now that we have firmware version 3.00 which allows data from sensors to be used in programming/mixes, Goose's post describes how to program a Jeti to use airspeed data from the MSpeed sensor to automatically adjust the gain of any gyro such as a Cortex.

This really shows the power and versitility of the Jeti radio system and, frankly, I'd much rather use airspeed data (not ground speed data which doesn't account for winds) to adjust gain.

Regards,

Jim

LA jetguy

Dave.... Thanks for posting pics.... Jim. I just installed Mspeed on one of my bandits and will try the cortex gain, flaps deployment, retract deployment all based on speed.

Simply brilliant.....

LA jetguy

I have my cortex gain based on flight modes... Will setup my cruise mode as Dave explained above but for take off and landing I want a constant fixed gain.... Got to test to see if that possible with MX1 switch...

gooseF22

SMOKIN deal on a DC16 on the other forum.. move quick if you want a tray radio

gooseF22

Dave if you use telemetry to move something, make sure your switch has override capability in case something goes wrong.. don't totally count on the tele..