Jeti USA

Please let's keep this civilized, we all are learning things that have not been tested before.

After reading thru few posts and trying to understand what you guys are trying to achieve and mainly talking to Jeti chef designer this is what I was told. There is no problem with PPM Jeti output but more with Powerbox PPM interpretation of the protocol (Tested by Jeti engineers). Officially there was never request from Powerbox side to go over PPM and EX Bus protocols and make sure integration is 100% up and running. Also Powerbox never officially requested EX Bus protocols, more likely they reverse engineered all the data. Unfortunately because of that Jeti cannot/will not guarantee compatibility with any third party devices.

I am sure the new Central Box 400 will take care of all the problems and requests.

Zb/Jeti USA

Mark Vandervelden

Hi
With Jeti RXs from the simplest 4ch to the 18ch are all in fact like multi ch programmable "Matchboxes"
We can configure all of these RXs outputs independently to complement the TXs settings.
You could for instance pick 4 of an RXs outputs to all be Aile and match each servo independently with no need to mix and match on the Tx.

You can also use a combination of the RXs in series to give say 12ch in total from 2x 6ch RXs or any combination you like.

Or "and" evan run RXs in parallel to give you both RF path diversity and more or as many servo ports as you could ever need.

It would seem its only our ability to imagine what we want or need to do that is the only real limit to the Jeti system

I guess you could put an Rx in each wing, tail plane, fin and another in the fuz if you wanted to and just run a power lead to each component.
I'm not suggesting you do but you could .

Jeti USA

Pretty much any combination of receivers will work, if you need to have more than 18 outputs (R18).

For Dual Path as well as Antenna Diversity you need 2x receivers talking to 2x RF modules.
But if you need more outputs you have to assign pins to different channels and this is where Rx diversity comes into the game.

Hypothetically
#1 R11 pin 1-11 assigned to channel 1-2-3-4-5...11
#2 R11 pin 1-11 assigned to channel 12-13-14...16 (Multiple Servos Assigned to 1 channel)

You set in Dual Path RF:
Module #1 communicates with #1 R11
Module #2 communicates with #2 R11

But you are missing Rx Diversity, this is when Satellite receivers enter the game
You set in Dual Path RF:
Module #1 communicates with #1 R11 AND #2 R3 set as Satellite/Clone
Module #2 communicates with #2 R11 AND #1 R3 set as Satellite/Clone

I hope it makes sense.

Zb/Jeti USA

Blancr

Mark

Just a little confused by you reply here. The Competition SRS works fine but the iGyro doesn't? Would you clarify please?

Thanks

Bob

Mark Vandervelden

Hi Bob
The I-Gyro works fine with the Rsats and all the Jeti RXs just like the Competition dose but only on the EX-bus setting not the PPM output.
This is relevant because one of the few hiccup's I've found with Jeti is when you select EX-bus on an Rx the servo output sockets on that Rx are switched off.
I found this out when I tried to use the I-Gyro as a stand alone unit with a Rx not a Rsat hopeing to get 5+ch ports (no main Powerbox unit with which it all works fine) .
I was left with only the 5 servo ports of the I-Gyro itself despite the I-Gyro (18ch) and Jeti (16ch) being able to map in theory any of there available ch.

It was a few weeks ago when I tried it but now I'm more ofay with the system I'm thinking I could perhaps use one or evan two Rsat on the I-Gyro to run the 2x Aile, 2x Elev and Rudd and second independent Rx pos with its own sat to give me more ports to run the other functions?
I will tinker on the bench later and get back you.

Blancr

Great - thanks Mark

Bob

Downwind3Zero

My Feedback: (10)

Thomas, you are quite the treat accusing me of something like that!
#1 you are wrong - I wish I was affiliated though!,
#2 I actually use 2x 14EX receivers in dual path with Powerbox RRS Royale in my GJC L-39 and it works fine. I posted pictures of it on RCG,
#3 I'm not defending anything, I actually sent my CB 200 back in favor of the Powerbox,
#4 I would kindly ask you not accuse me of anything you can't back up
Chris
PS: My german is better than yours

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks. So I get 8 aerials to position? I presume I need to double up on batteries switches regulators etc?

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

Chris,

I am German, so if you are not, I doubt that your German is better than mine I was in fact under the impression that you were affiliated with Esprit, because you took the time and wrote lenghty in detail articles about their products. No other regular user would do that in this great depth. So I take this part back. But being affiliated with either company was not meant as an offense, I hope you didn't get it that way.

But now back to the facts. You are stating that you are using two 14 channel receivers with a Powerbox Royal. Are you using the PPM variant or are you using the EX bus? I have the same config of a Powerbox Royal SRS and two Jeti RX's in a Carf Tutor and a combo of the Powerbox Cockpit SRS with an iGyro and two Jeti receivers in a prop plane. With both planes I had the same trouble that Mark also desribed above and that the German forums are full of. If using the PPM output instead of the EX bus you'll always have the same issue: The greater number of channels you need, the longer the latency time you have to set in the receiver to get a half-way decent signal that the Powerbox can use. I ended up with settings of 26 to 30 mSecs, this adds up to a lot of delay. This increase of servo response time is sensible, the plane also feels sluggish and synthetic. With lower settings (12 mSec is the default) you'll notice a slight jitter or servo glitch. All these problems are gone with the EX bus signal. If you haven't tried it, then test it yourself and you'll notice the difference immediately. All you have to do is set your receivers to EX bus in the device manager and connect them to the Powerbox through the "EXT" labelled port and not the "SAT" port.

Unfortunately the EX bus protocol is not supported by the first Royal SRS that came out at Nall time this year (the first series had the silver housing). I also had to send mine back to Germany to have it updated.

Thomas

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

Harry,

yes you have to. That's why I recommended to go with just ONE Jeti central box and use matchboxes for the less important functions connected to the channels 16-20. To save you some money I was trying to suggest a combination of Jeti and a Powerbox Champion SRS. With this combo you would also have two fully independent RF links and full antenna diversity with just two receivers. The Powerbox gives you all the ports you need and two built-in regulators. If you want to connect telemetry sensors you'll need a third receiver though, but this could be the smallest 3 channel RX.

Thomas

Mark Vandervelden

​Hi again Alex, further to my last answer I have tinkered further on the bench this evening.

A wile ago I tried to setup my Jeti RC to use the PB I-Gyro in a smallish airframe that did not warrant the features and cost of a full blown PB SRS unit. These units costs in excess of £325 and would need sensibly 2x Rsats to work at £49 each, so around £425 for the Rx system on top of the I-Gyro it self!. I planed and hoped I could simply bind instead the I-Gyro to a normal Jeti Rx and use its channels/sockets along side the I-Gyro. Unfortunately when I bound an Rx and hooked up the I-Gyro I found that in its PPM mode it did not work well at all that all the servos were glitching and jumped about badly. This left me with only one other option which was to use the newer Jeti X-Bus output. This worked very well and all the servos were now running smoothly "but" I then found I now could only access the 5ch sockets of the I-Gyro itself. This is because when Jeti RXs are in EX-Bus mode the sockets of that RX are inhibited so I gave it up as a bad plan.

That was in September when I first got the DS16. Now having played with the programing and becoming more ofay with the systems I thought I would have another go, this time using the Tx in "Duel Path" mode. This allows me to use a single Rsat with the I-Gyro then a separate Jeti 6ch Rx for the additional chs giving a total airborne Rx saving over the SRS of £325 of course I would need a power supply that would have been included in the SRS unit.

Using this time a Rsat on the I-Gyro I found as before it worked fine but again only on the EX-Bus setting. This gives me 5ch through the I-Gyros servo sockets that I can map at choice through the software within the I-Gyro to any of its built in 18chs.
I then bound a 6ch Rx to the second of the DS16s RF outputs and checked The Rx could be remapped so as not to clash or overlap with the 5 chosen/assigned within the I-Gyro. It worked!
Although I have only played with this setup quickly on the bench this everning it would appear I now can have all the chs I need, 5 stabilized through the I-Gyro and the remaining chs with as many output sockets as any Rx or RXs I choose to use, mapped accordingly.
Regarding power supply I am thinking I could use as usual in this size airframe the PB duel reg switch to supply both the I-Gyro and the secondary by using its two leads one to the Rsat and one to the 6ch Rx giving good redundancy.
This now gives me a sensible and cost effective setup for smaller airframes were the I-Gyro is arguably more useful.

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

ZB,

I was keeping it civilized and I apologize if you misinterpreted my postings. I was just trying to help another user who was asking to use a combination of products that I used before and which are proven to not work together flawlessly.

The point is that YOU are now learning things that YOU didn't test before, but I did and so did other users in Europe where this radio is available since 2011. In this case you should be more careful with your statements by not denying other users' postings in general. By doing that you made me look like an idiot and liar!

To me as the end-user it also doesn't matter whose fault this incompatibility is, but just for clarification, I had the same discussion with Richard Deutsch, who is the owner of Powerbox Systems. He will claim just the opposite, meaning that the signal clarity problem is on Jeti's side! The higher number channel receivers have a lot of internal programming to process, this causes delays in computing the sum signal. It is also a fact that these signal problems do not appear with a combo of Futaba and Powerbox, Graupner and Powerbox or Multiplex and Powerbox (all other brands do not offer a sum signal).

I also understand that first of all you want to sell your own products, but you should not try to silence other users like me who are trying to suggest alternatives. For this user's application of more than 15 non-HV servos there are cheaper ways to realize a redundant system. With Jeti products only you would need 4 receivers ($65 for the smallest RX x 4 = $260), two central boxes ($215 x 2 = $430) and two regulators ($89 x 2 = $178) adding up to a total cost of $868. The other combo would be more than $200 cheaper ($549 for the Powerbox plus $130 for two receivers) plus the added benefit that the Powerbox gives you a few addtitional features. If this user would not have had the requirement of more than 15 servos, I would have also recommended the Jeti central box and two RX's.

Thomas

Downwind3Zero

My Feedback: (10)

Thomas,
As stated I use 2x R14EX receivers with Powerbox Royal RRS. They are setup as dual path, not connected to either Sat or Ext, one is connected to FS1 the other to FS2 on the Powerbox. This enables dual redundancy of the first 5/6 channels. It works great, obviously no lag and if one receiver is disconnected it retains the most important functions (in my case turbine, elevator, aileron, gear). It's flawless to date and I would recommend it to anyone. There may be some confusion in the above discussion due to the SRS or iGyro versions.

On another note, you must be confusing me with someone else; I have never written lengthy articles on JETI or any other products, I occasionally will answer questions posted if I feel like I can contribute knowledge or experience but that is it. Again you should check your references first. I will admit to being a fan of the JETI system but still learning the ropes and I have also met Zb and purchased products from him/them since he did business out of his Garage in Palm Bay.

On yet another note, there are 2 other countries besides Germany where german is spoken, I happen to be from one of those, specifically the one which the Germans were not able to invade in WW2

Chris

bluelevel

My Feedback: (39)

Chris,

you explained your wiring, but not the output protocol you are using which is the most important point in the previous discussion. If you are not sure, use the device explorer of your radio to access the RX settings. There you'll see if you are using the PPM out (that was claimed to be working so flawlessly without even testing it) or the EX bus. Another way of finding this out is by looking at your wiring. If you are using the "EXT" labelled port to connect your receiver(s) to your Powerbox, then you MUST be using the EX bus signal, because the PPM out is the "SAT" port.

If you don't have any glitches or delays, I highly doubt that you are using the PPM out, as this verifiably causes communication problems between Jeti and Powerbox.

Grüße in die Schweiz

Thomas

auggie622

My Feedback: (39)

I been looking for a new radio and came across this thread. Knowing very little about this system but from reading this thread, it seems this radio might be one to consider. Question, the receiver for this system, are they universal in servo usage or are they design for certain servos. Thanks , steven

xxspeed

My Feedback: (5)

I really like the Jeti ds-16 on mine I have turn the gimbals so there straight with my thumbs and also crossed the trim tabs that make it easier to reach, I enjoy the way you can custom the transmitter to what you like, attach picture of gimbal. Has anyone done this?

PowerBox-Systems GmbH

Sorry Jeti USA, this is not correct:

1. PPM output from Jeti receivers don´t offer constant framerate. The signal is flipping between 20ms-30ms, independent on what framerate you have set. Only R-Sat receiver´s PPM output is constant.
2. We requested three times to get the EX protocoll from Jeti, on the Nuernberg fair I had a talk with a Jeti engineer and he promised me to get get the protocol in summer 2013. But unfortunately seems there is no will to work together like other transmitter manufactures (Futaba, JR, Multiplex, Graupner...) do.
3. It´s not necessary that Jeti guarantees the compatibility of 3rd party electronics - we do!

To the questions of the Jeti/PowerBox pilots:

You can use the PPM output of the R-Sat receivers with all PowerBox SRS products (iGyro, Royal, Champion, Cockpit, Competition). With the iGyro only a restricted amount of channels is working- max.10 - 11, because of internal calculation time. Else glitches can happen (no danger - if it´s working on ground it´s o.k.). All other products with latest software release are working with PPM signal, and you can use the EXT output of the R-Sat (or other small receivers) for telemetry.

A more precise and faster option is to set the receiver to EX-BUS output. This signal is digital, contains all 16 channels and has a high resolution (2048steps). The disadvantage of this signal: it uses the EXT output of the R-Sats, so no telemetry can be connected. This is the reason why you need an extra receiver for telemetry if you want to have this feature.
Another problem with EX-BUS: if you have a normal receiver R8, R10... and you turn on the EX.BUS, the servo outputs are deactivated- I see no reason for that, but Jeti decided to do that. So unfortunately you cannot use the receiver outputs for throttle or gear and the EX-BUS for the iGyro. You need R-SATs (or another small receiver) for the iGyro and a seperate receiver for the AUXilary channels.

So in sum: there is no problem using the very high quality Jeti transmitters with the benefits of PowerBox features and functions. If somebody is not sure what parts are necessary or how to setup his individual plane, don´t hestitate to ask me. You get quick support in the PowerBox Forum.

Best regards
Richard Deutsch

jrtal

Hi Bob,
I have been using this unit on a P-47 running on 8S .
Quite illuminating to read real airspeed whilst flying!
This and a 150 mui thro expander 4.
John....

siberianhusky

Impressive piece of kit! Too bad they will always be out of my price range.
My only question is why does it look vaguely like something homemade from the 70's?
I WOULD consider something like this if I had the need/funds, I really don't place looks over functionality, but man for that is one ugly tx!
Guess it is kind of like what my dad used to say "Want to be happy? Marry an ugly woman!"
Until I win the lotto I'll just have to make do with small planes and the radios for the masses.

gooseF22

Hey guys,
Im on board now too.. I have decided to migrate over to DS-16 radio from the DX-18 over time.. Knowing the limitations of both radios I am sold on its flexibility.. I should receive it in a few days.. I ordered 3x5 chan rx, 14rx, 9rx, Vario, and GPS.. I also plan to integrate the cortex gyro into it. more to follow... keep the info coming..

Goose..

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Goose,

I spoke to Jim Oddino the other day, that is the set up he is flying.

For those of you that don't know, Jim Oddino wrote the Radio Spectrum column for RCModeler magazine for years and he was the "O" in S&O radios. A legend, he was a chief engineer at Hughes for a long time too.

http://www.rchalloffame.org/Exhibits/Exhibit22/

xxspeed

My Feedback: (5)

Goose I did the same thing from DX-18 to DS16, great move your love it I also use a Cortex gyro and it all works..enjoy ;}

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

I was just expounding on the Cortex Gyro with Goose. Nice setup xxspeed.

Blancr

Hi John,

Thanks for the feedback - I'll give it a go

Bob

gooseF22

Special thanks to Jim McEwen..He is/speaks engineer and pilot well... He explained what I could do with this new system.. The very things I have been pushing for.. I have been a close minded spektrum customer and active from the beginning of its existence.. I got one of the earliest DX7 and Tx modules for our lab, and have had just about every transmitter/receiver combo. Some of you may remember, I did a lot of lab testing, and wrung out independent testing for DSM and X, did a lot of the early testing for Fromeco/spektrum power compatibility to make sure its linear PS was stable enough to provide quiet power, and there were no resets, sent in several bug reports, and found the counter problem in the DSMX telemetry, and provided the inputs to HH and John to address it.. We even dissected a DX7 and retrofitted several parts with switching PS's and jacked the power for UAV override capability.

Also thanks to Bob Belluomini, for walking me through the hundreds of telemetry/gyro questions, along with the electric setups..

Besides being a pilot, I have been involved in avionics and electronic development for most of my adult life, so I appreciate a good project evolution, and am looking forward to this.. Its nice that the developers and reseller/repair people are online and listening and answering questions.. Things will evolve faster this way, and software issues will get addressed quicker..

So this is wasn't an easy decision to open the door..but times change, and i look forward to flying this new radio, and learning and contributing to the Jeti DS/DC-16 community..

goose