Alm Meca Turbines
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Skunkwrks (11-29-2022)
11-28-2022, 12:38 PM
#103
11-28-2022, 06:58 PM
#104
Member
Definitely some interesting points you have highlighted, I would say this would make you the minority not the majority when it comes to the higher end gear such as the Core you mentioned.
However when it comes to radios Spectrum do cater more to this demographic and maybe Jet Central when it comes to turbines (both make great products but keep simplicity in mind when making products for the end user).
However when it comes to radios Spectrum do cater more to this demographic and maybe Jet Central when it comes to turbines (both make great products but keep simplicity in mind when making products for the end user).
See I'd go for the older vehicle too but only if it was priced as such.
example: I have zero interest in all the telemetry stuff in today's radios such as the powerbox core. That being the case I struggle with paying the price for so many features I won't use. If they brought out a core with the same quality radio link and the basic features I need, mixing, dual rates, etc but none of the telemetry or internet ability I'd buy that radio BUT! Only if it was significantly cheaper. If the full feature core is $3000 I'd expect a basic one without all those features to be $2000. If they were both the same price I'd buy the one with all the features.
I love old tech turbines because nobody wants them anymore so I can buy them for dirt cheap compared to a brand new current engine. If I was being forced to pay brand new money you can bet that I'm going to buy the latest and greatest.
But as I say, the consumer will decide with their wallets. There is nothing innovative about this engine to make someone choose it over the xicoy or king tech etc. If you want to pay extra for old tech hey, good on ya. But man people are giving feedback about this engine and you are trying to argue with what the market actually wants.
example: I have zero interest in all the telemetry stuff in today's radios such as the powerbox core. That being the case I struggle with paying the price for so many features I won't use. If they brought out a core with the same quality radio link and the basic features I need, mixing, dual rates, etc but none of the telemetry or internet ability I'd buy that radio BUT! Only if it was significantly cheaper. If the full feature core is $3000 I'd expect a basic one without all those features to be $2000. If they were both the same price I'd buy the one with all the features.
I love old tech turbines because nobody wants them anymore so I can buy them for dirt cheap compared to a brand new current engine. If I was being forced to pay brand new money you can bet that I'm going to buy the latest and greatest.
But as I say, the consumer will decide with their wallets. There is nothing innovative about this engine to make someone choose it over the xicoy or king tech etc. If you want to pay extra for old tech hey, good on ya. But man people are giving feedback about this engine and you are trying to argue with what the market actually wants.
11-29-2022, 07:52 AM
#105
I know I live in the minority 😀
i still fly AMT turbines, several of which are still air start. But they work every single time. I still use my JR12X and it has remained flawless. I still much prefer air retracts and have never had a gear up landing.
But the point I was making is, I personally love the older simpler technology (by simpler I mean more user friendly for me) but if I were faced with buying brand new and there was a current tech turbine (xicoy for example) vs this old tech alm mecca turbine, if they were the same price I'd buy the xicoy without question. For 500 euros less I'd absolutely buy the xicoy. If the alm mecca was 1000 euros cheaper then it would likely get my money but I'll never pay more for less.
i still fly AMT turbines, several of which are still air start. But they work every single time. I still use my JR12X and it has remained flawless. I still much prefer air retracts and have never had a gear up landing.
But the point I was making is, I personally love the older simpler technology (by simpler I mean more user friendly for me) but if I were faced with buying brand new and there was a current tech turbine (xicoy for example) vs this old tech alm mecca turbine, if they were the same price I'd buy the xicoy without question. For 500 euros less I'd absolutely buy the xicoy. If the alm mecca was 1000 euros cheaper then it would likely get my money but I'll never pay more for less.
Definitely some interesting points you have highlighted, I would say this would make you the minority not the majority when it comes to the higher end gear such as the Core you mentioned.
However when it comes to radios Spectrum do cater more to this demographic and maybe Jet Central when it comes to turbines (both make great products but keep simplicity in mind when making products for the end user).
However when it comes to radios Spectrum do cater more to this demographic and maybe Jet Central when it comes to turbines (both make great products but keep simplicity in mind when making products for the end user).
11-29-2022, 12:17 PM
#106
Senior Member
But a friend in Phoenix who's just about ready to go with the Atom from a JR28 radio because of the programming it offers and its price.
11-29-2022, 12:26 PM
#107
Senior Member
I know I live in the minority 😀
i still fly AMT turbines, several of which are still air start. But they work every single time. I still use my JR12X and it has remained flawless. I still much prefer air retracts and have never had a gear up landing.
But the point I was making is, I personally love the older simpler technology (by simpler I mean more user friendly for me) but if I were faced with buying brand new and there was a current tech turbine (xicoy for example) vs this old tech alm mecca turbine, if they were the same price I'd buy the xicoy without question. For 500 euros less I'd absolutely buy the xicoy. If the alm mecca was 1000 euros cheaper then it would likely get my money but I'll never pay more for less.
i still fly AMT turbines, several of which are still air start. But they work every single time. I still use my JR12X and it has remained flawless. I still much prefer air retracts and have never had a gear up landing.
But the point I was making is, I personally love the older simpler technology (by simpler I mean more user friendly for me) but if I were faced with buying brand new and there was a current tech turbine (xicoy for example) vs this old tech alm mecca turbine, if they were the same price I'd buy the xicoy without question. For 500 euros less I'd absolutely buy the xicoy. If the alm mecca was 1000 euros cheaper then it would likely get my money but I'll never pay more for less.
Guess you don't fly around high-power 2.4G transmitters near your field, as they cover the landscape!!!!. Your equipment isn't great at separating signals from other sources which will cause a loss of signal and possible crashes. I refuse to chance an Imac plane or a Jet with subpar equipment.
Maybe others have alot of planes in their hangar they don't want any more !!!!!!
11-29-2022, 12:32 PM
#108
It's very hard to do with cutting telemerty or other options that the BIG boy has. Jeti did this by issuing 12, and 14-channel radios don't know how much was cut out from, say Jeti 16G2 radio.
But a friend in Phoenix who's just about ready to go with the Atom from a JR28 radio because of the programming it offers and its price.
But a friend in Phoenix who's just about ready to go with the Atom from a JR28 radio because of the programming it offers and its price.
The Atom binds 2 receivers per model memory (though really this is 4 receivers using a D series receiver because they are 2 receivers in one housing) versus 4 with the Core.
The Atom is 2048 versus 4096 resolution (can you tell the difference? I can't)
And of course the channel count, 18 vs 26
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Canadian Man (11-29-2022)
11-29-2022, 12:36 PM
#109
Senior Member
They really didn't cut much, the main differences are:
The Atom binds 2 receivers per model memory (though really this is 4 receivers using a D series receiver because they are 2 receivers in one housing) versus 4 with the Core.
The Atom is 2048 versus 4096 resolution (can you tell the difference? I can't)
And of course the channel count, 18 vs 26
The Atom binds 2 receivers per model memory (though really this is 4 receivers using a D series receiver because they are 2 receivers in one housing) versus 4 with the Core.
The Atom is 2048 versus 4096 resolution (can you tell the difference? I can't)
And of course the channel count, 18 vs 26
Ya i run to receivers using four antennas for the two receivers. Jeti it's been excellent for seven years an I'm sure PB is the same.
11-30-2022, 05:00 AM
#110
Guess you don't fly around high-power 2.4G transmitters near your field, as they cover the landscape!!!!. Your equipment isn't great at separating signals from other sources which will cause a loss of signal and possible crashes. I refuse to chance an Imac plane or a Jet with subpar equipment.
Maybe others have alot of planes in their hangar they don't want any more !!!!!!
Maybe others have alot of planes in their hangar they don't want any more !!!!!!
What is with the arrogant ignorant comment anyway? It really wasn't that long ago that the 12X was the gold standard amongst rc jet pilots. I still have a number of friends that use the 12X and never an issue anywhere.
11-30-2022, 05:23 AM
#111
My "subpar equipment" has had zero issues anywhere I've ever flown.
What is with the arrogant ignorant comment anyway? It really wasn't that long ago that the 12X was the gold standard amongst rc jet pilots. I still have a number of friends that use the 12X and never an issue anywhere.
What is with the arrogant ignorant comment anyway? It really wasn't that long ago that the 12X was the gold standard amongst rc jet pilots. I still have a number of friends that use the 12X and never an issue anywhere.
Result, perfect operation, all confirmed by the data logging and I have flown it in Australia, NZ, Switzerland, Germany and UK. And of course the Weatronic radio is the basis of the Core Rf system.Nothing sub par and still in use on two Airworld Hawks, a SG Hawk, Mig 29, Dg 303, jet, and a BobCat. Core will eventually replace this ageing but still perfect equipment,
As well as Core ( in use in two jets ) I also use my 28X which has also been again, faultless, controlling both a jet and my 1/3 Cub.Nothing sub par.
but the Core is state of the art. I know little about Jeti although its also a very good radio.
….and I do wish these guys would stop knocking the Alm Meca engine, if you don’t like it don’t buy it. The review in RCJI was not exactly rave, but it was found to be a good engine.Give the guys a chance, we don’t need a string of sarcastic remarks, from people who have have an, often uninformed, opinion of absolutely everything !
Last edited by David Gladwin; 11-30-2022 at 05:29 AM.
11-30-2022, 09:51 AM
#113
Senior Member
The JR 12X is STILL a superb radio. I have had two in operation since its introduction, latterly fitted with Weatronic RF sections.
Result, perfect operation, all confirmed by the data logging and I have flown it in Australia, NZ, Switzerland, Germany and UK. And of course the Weatronic radio is the basis of the Core Rf system.Nothing sub par and still in use on two Airworld Hawks, a SG Hawk, Mig 29, Dg 303, jet, and a BobCat. Core will eventually replace this ageing but still perfect equipment,
As well as Core ( in use in two jets ) I also use my 28X which has also been again, faultless, controlling both a jet and my 1/3 Cub.Nothing sub par.
but the Core is state of the art. I know little about Jeti although its also a very good radio.
Result, perfect operation, all confirmed by the data logging and I have flown it in Australia, NZ, Switzerland, Germany and UK. And of course the Weatronic radio is the basis of the Core Rf system.Nothing sub par and still in use on two Airworld Hawks, a SG Hawk, Mig 29, Dg 303, jet, and a BobCat. Core will eventually replace this ageing but still perfect equipment,
As well as Core ( in use in two jets ) I also use my 28X which has also been again, faultless, controlling both a jet and my 1/3 Cub.Nothing sub par.
but the Core is state of the art. I know little about Jeti although its also a very good radio.
A lot has changed since then, it's like say the old JR10X is still good in today's environment of cultured frequencies .
Hard to believe the thought pattern of some RC pilots, they have more money than they know what to do with or just have a hard time adjusting to new technology.
Just my opinion!.
11-30-2022, 10:29 AM
#114
Senior Member
I'm amazed that guys like you think equipment that was created in 2009 is still as good as the new Equipment. Guess it's your money and plane, sad.
A lot has changed since then, it's like say the old JR10X is still good in today's environment of cultured frequencies .
Hard to believe the thought pattern of some RC pilots, they have more money than they know what to do with or just have a hard time adjusting to new technology.
Just my opinion!.
A lot has changed since then, it's like say the old JR10X is still good in today's environment of cultured frequencies .
Hard to believe the thought pattern of some RC pilots, they have more money than they know what to do with or just have a hard time adjusting to new technology.
Just my opinion!.
I do apologize for my ignorance of how good these JR radios are and if I offended anyone.
11-30-2022, 02:35 PM
#115
No, it’s just a way to make sure they have some kind of business coming in. I already told them it needs to be changed to be longer then 2 years and I do believe there will be some revisions coming.
12-01-2022, 04:18 AM
#118
My Feedback: (53)
So is ALM a basement business?
12-01-2022, 07:28 AM
#119
the manufactures know the odds of a crash or fod damage is far more likely than warranty issues so the required to send in service intervals guarantee that there is income coming in. Even on engines being sold second hand, the warranty transfer fee is a great way to ensure further income even from 2nd hand sales.
Its clever marketing, the difference is unlike warranty on a vehicle, you are required to send it into the manufacture for service, it can't go to an independent tech for service. I can take my truck to any mechanic for service like oil changes, brakes, etc without voiding warranty. Turbines have to go back to manufacture for the designated service interval, again, is guaranteed income.
12-01-2022, 08:21 AM
#120
My Feedback: (53)
Like I said before, lifetime warranty is a great marketing gimmick. Doesn't matter who the manufacture is. It's prepaid service. Guaranteed income. Just like the "warranty transfer fee".
the manufactures know the odds of a crash or fod damage is far more likely than warranty issues so the required to send in service intervals guarantee that there is income coming in. Even on engines being sold second hand, the warranty transfer fee is a great way to ensure further income even from 2nd hand sales.
Its clever marketing, the difference is unlike warranty on a vehicle, you are required to send it into the manufacture for service, it can't go to an independent tech for service. I can take my truck to any mechanic for service like oil changes, brakes, etc without voiding warranty. Turbines have to go back to manufacture for the designated service interval, again, is guaranteed income.
the manufactures know the odds of a crash or fod damage is far more likely than warranty issues so the required to send in service intervals guarantee that there is income coming in. Even on engines being sold second hand, the warranty transfer fee is a great way to ensure further income even from 2nd hand sales.
Its clever marketing, the difference is unlike warranty on a vehicle, you are required to send it into the manufacture for service, it can't go to an independent tech for service. I can take my truck to any mechanic for service like oil changes, brakes, etc without voiding warranty. Turbines have to go back to manufacture for the designated service interval, again, is guaranteed income.
but I have many jets so it’s a lot harder to hit 25hrs…..time is spread over them
12-01-2022, 04:27 PM
#121
The most shocking thing in this entire thread is the ALM rep’s stubborn attempts to gaslight the community into believing that the wares he’s selling are competitive with -let alone superior to- other offerings.
The 180 for example, which has been INDEPENDENTLY tested by RCJI, has NO material benefits over the other two competing units tested in this decade- namely the KT Gen4 or Xicoy units. If one generously overlooks the A-180’s unproven reliability, warranty, service, manufacturer, operations on the as yet unseen ECU, and even (or especially) the seemingly questionable credibility of the US Rep, the A-180 might be sorta comparable to the KTG4 if…..the KT did not clearly have more evolved electronics, fuel pump, parts network, etc…
The A-180 is a full generation (or two) behind the X-180 and as a result makes less power while weighing a LOT more. The extra weight issue is all the more serious when one considers that extra turbine weight behind the CG translates to extra compensatory weight ahead of the CG for most installations. The extra weight of an A-180 over an X-180 for my next build would translate to at least 1.5lbs higher gross weight. Ouch.
In fact, the only engines which are objectively outmatched by the A-180 on a basis of performance (thrust/weight/Fuel Flow etc) are from tests conducted 8-9 years ago.
I will be buying a 180 in the very near future, basing that purchase decision upon a combination of independent test results plus manufacturer/US Rep credibility.
Objectively speaking, the A-180 offers nothing over independently tested competition in those categories. Subjectively IMO, the AML line is a total non-player.
The 180 for example, which has been INDEPENDENTLY tested by RCJI, has NO material benefits over the other two competing units tested in this decade- namely the KT Gen4 or Xicoy units. If one generously overlooks the A-180’s unproven reliability, warranty, service, manufacturer, operations on the as yet unseen ECU, and even (or especially) the seemingly questionable credibility of the US Rep, the A-180 might be sorta comparable to the KTG4 if…..the KT did not clearly have more evolved electronics, fuel pump, parts network, etc…
The A-180 is a full generation (or two) behind the X-180 and as a result makes less power while weighing a LOT more. The extra weight issue is all the more serious when one considers that extra turbine weight behind the CG translates to extra compensatory weight ahead of the CG for most installations. The extra weight of an A-180 over an X-180 for my next build would translate to at least 1.5lbs higher gross weight. Ouch.
In fact, the only engines which are objectively outmatched by the A-180 on a basis of performance (thrust/weight/Fuel Flow etc) are from tests conducted 8-9 years ago.
I will be buying a 180 in the very near future, basing that purchase decision upon a combination of independent test results plus manufacturer/US Rep credibility.
Objectively speaking, the A-180 offers nothing over independently tested competition in those categories. Subjectively IMO, the AML line is a total non-player.
Last edited by highhorse; 12-01-2022 at 05:11 PM.
12-01-2022, 07:30 PM
#123
The most shocking thing in this entire thread is the ALM rep’s stubborn attempts to gaslight the community into believing that the wares he’s selling are competitive with -let alone superior to- other offerings.
The 180 for example, which has been INDEPENDENTLY tested by RCJI, has NO material benefits over the other two competing units tested in this decade- namely the KT Gen4 or Xicoy units. If one generously overlooks the A-180’s unproven reliability, warranty, service, manufacturer, operations on the as yet unseen ECU, and even (or especially) the seemingly questionable credibility of the US Rep, the A-180 might be sorta comparable to the KTG4 if…..the KT did not clearly have more evolved electronics, fuel pump, parts network, etc…
The A-180 is a full generation (or two) behind the X-180 and as a result makes less power while weighing a LOT more. The extra weight issue is all the more serious when one considers that extra turbine weight behind the CG translates to extra compensatory weight ahead of the CG for most installations. The extra weight of an A-180 over an X-180 for my next build would translate to at least 1.5lbs higher gross weight. Ouch.
In fact, the only engines which are objectively outmatched by the A-180 on a basis of performance (thrust/weight/Fuel Flow etc) are from tests conducted 8-9 years ago.
I will be buying a 180 in the very near future, basing that purchase decision upon a combination of independent test results plus manufacturer/US Rep credibility.
Objectively speaking, the A-180 offers nothing over independently tested competition in those categories. Subjectively IMO, the AML line is a total non-player.
The 180 for example, which has been INDEPENDENTLY tested by RCJI, has NO material benefits over the other two competing units tested in this decade- namely the KT Gen4 or Xicoy units. If one generously overlooks the A-180’s unproven reliability, warranty, service, manufacturer, operations on the as yet unseen ECU, and even (or especially) the seemingly questionable credibility of the US Rep, the A-180 might be sorta comparable to the KTG4 if…..the KT did not clearly have more evolved electronics, fuel pump, parts network, etc…
The A-180 is a full generation (or two) behind the X-180 and as a result makes less power while weighing a LOT more. The extra weight issue is all the more serious when one considers that extra turbine weight behind the CG translates to extra compensatory weight ahead of the CG for most installations. The extra weight of an A-180 over an X-180 for my next build would translate to at least 1.5lbs higher gross weight. Ouch.
In fact, the only engines which are objectively outmatched by the A-180 on a basis of performance (thrust/weight/Fuel Flow etc) are from tests conducted 8-9 years ago.
I will be buying a 180 in the very near future, basing that purchase decision upon a combination of independent test results plus manufacturer/US Rep credibility.
Objectively speaking, the A-180 offers nothing over independently tested competition in those categories. Subjectively IMO, the AML line is a total non-player.
Im confused where you are getting these numbers from? The A-180 is 2000g rtr while the X-180 is at 1640g. 2000-1640=360g; the A-180 is .7 pounds heavier not 1.5 pounds heavier. Thrust are both at 18kg which means both put out same power. Might have older technology but puts out same power.
Not sure why you are trying to put dirt on my name? I haven’t done anything to you. You don’t know me and talking about my credibility shows what kind of character you are. I have done nothing but good to everyone who has dealt with me, I have never burned anyone or did anyone wrong ever; not once so you making those dumb and truly immature comments shows what kind of person you are. Please go buy the X-180 I am happy for you, please go buy that because obviously you have your mind set on it.
Last edited by peter 098; 12-01-2022 at 07:33 PM.
12-02-2022, 05:29 AM
#124
Here you guys go, got a message of new things from Alm-meca. New alm meca batteries. New ecu/fuel pump box has been made a lot smaller than original, still in development to be made out of aluminum but this is in the right step. And biggest of all the all new ecu from alm meca, this ecu will be made in France. 
12-02-2022, 11:25 AM
#125
Im confused where you are getting these numbers from? The A-180 is 2000g rtr while the X-180 is at 1640g. 2000-1640=360g; the A-180 is .7 pounds heavier not 1.5 pounds heavier. Thrust are both at 18kg which means both put out same power. Might have older technology but puts out same power.
Not sure why you are trying to put dirt on my name? I haven’t done anything to you. You don’t know me and talking about my credibility shows what kind of character you are. I have done nothing but good to everyone who has dealt with me, I have never burned anyone or did anyone wrong ever; not once so you making those dumb and truly immature comments shows what kind of person you are. Please go buy the X-180 I am happy for you, please go buy that because obviously you have your mind set on it.
Not sure why you are trying to put dirt on my name? I haven’t done anything to you. You don’t know me and talking about my credibility shows what kind of character you are. I have done nothing but good to everyone who has dealt with me, I have never burned anyone or did anyone wrong ever; not once so you making those dumb and truly immature comments shows what kind of person you are. Please go buy the X-180 I am happy for you, please go buy that because obviously you have your mind set on it.
A tip in attempt to help you out: The “in development” stuff is no selling point, because what you have NOW is way behind the market. Even if the new ECU came out tomorrow, it’s still a first-effort, untested unit which will still be linked to a heavier engine than its competitors. Also, posting a pic lipos…is just…pointless, imo, as I doubt that anyone will care about the lipos.
You’d do well to stop this hard-sell nonsense until you get 1) the weight down, 2) the fuel flow down, 3) the thrust up, 4) the warranty fixed, 5) an ECU from this decade, and 6) some independent testing of the future engine that you hope to sell vs the units currently available.
We would all welcome a new manufacturer with competitive advantages to the marketplace, as that moves the hobby forward. Your current efforts however to gaslight an educated marketplace into accepting your as-yet under-developed engines as equals or even superior to competitors’ units are doing both you and ALM more harm than good.
Some free advice which I am 100% certain you’ll ignore: Stop, regroup, and come back when ALM has products with a true competitive advantage vs the gimmickry and obfuscation currently offered. Then take a much softer approach. Touting questionable “benefits” such as custom harnesses, colors, felt clunks, lipos etc comes across more as an inexperienced carnival barker than a serious and reliable Rep.
Last edited by highhorse; 12-02-2022 at 11:58 AM.