BEWARE I JUST HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH SOME FRUITLOOP FORM OVER SEAS THAT IS TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE ON ME, HE EMAIL ME TO PURCHASE A BOB CAT XL THAT I HAVE LISTED ON THE SITE . HERE IS HIS RETURN EMAIL THAT HE JUST SENT ME[>:][>:]

Hello
Thanks for your response on the enquiry.
Concerning the shipping ,i have a made a solid arrangement
on how my shipping agent will come to your location and make the
arrangement with you to pick the BVM BOBCAT up.i will need the
title of recognition and other valuable documents.
So i will like you to understand my method of payment very well.
I have a client who is owing me the sum of $9,500 and has agree
to pay me in check, before i saw this BVM BOBCAT , i have discuss
everythingwith my client and he has agree to send you the
check,you may wonder why i am sending $9,500 ,it was because he
his owing me that his why i ask him to send the amount to conclude the
shippers,clearers ,freight cost to all cos we have to settle the
port authorities and the Government of that country.
I will need the balance which you will need to send to my
shipper for the shippping and clearing,so,now for him to send you the check ,he will
need the following information..
FULL NAME
FULL ADDRESS
FULL PHONE NUMBER(HOME,WORK AND MOBILE)
ZIP CODE
THANKS



----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:33:28 EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BVM BOBCAT

I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM OF THIS SCAM BEFORE JUST KEEP A EYE OUT FOR THIS AND BE AWARE OF ANY ONE TRYING TO SEND YOU MORE MONEY THAN YOU AGREE ON . WHAT HAPPEN NEXT IS THEY COME AND PICKUP THE PLANE AND THE SPARE MONEY THAT YOU NEED TO GIVE THEM AND LATER FIND OUT THE CHECK WAS NO GOODS NOW YOUR OUT OF A PLANE PLUS THE $4500 YOU GAVE FOR SHIPPING.
I KNOW THAT THIS HAS HAPPEN BEFORE TO SOME FELLOW JET GUYS DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU.
BEWARE[:@][:@]

I too have seen this before. Unfortunately, the banking system , by law, has to clear any deposited checks within a certain number of days. That's not to say that once you retrieve these cleared funds, that it won't bounce and come back to bite you later. I should know, it happened to me. Luckily, it wasn't for much money, but it happens. Bottom line?
DON'T ACCEPT CHECKS FROM ANYONE FOR ANYTHING!!! Unless you absolutely know and trust the other party. Good lookin out Ramaspot.

Always ask them to wire the money to your account. This is the best method dealing oversea customer you don't know.

Tam

Manny glad you where wise up to that scam as it has been around for a couple of years. Another guy that has raised my eyebrows right now is rcjets2002.
Now it might be nothing, but then again this might be another to watch out. Now this is not confirmed or anything, but I thought it was funny how one guy can be getting out of the hobby and have three Very nice jets. Now all are kits and the picture of the BAC 146 appears to be form RCJI and the F-16 is directly from the adjets website.

Jetworld BAC 146 Strikemaster (Kit)
Item Number 6162
Quantity 1
Price $4,000.00
Location Cambridge N/A UNITED KINGDOM
Jet World BAe Jet Provost
Jet World Scale Retracts and Struts
Robart Air System
Wheels
Wheel Brakes
Cockpit Set
RAF Decals
SPS 54 Turbine
Hi Tech 8 Channel R/c Gear with extra servos.
Shipping is free and insured.


Aviation Design F-16 (Kit)
Item Number 6161
Quantity 1
Price $4,500.00
Location Cambridge N/A UNITED KINGDOM
Spring Air Retract Set
Wheel Brakes
Wheels
Gear Door Set
Cockpit Set
Danish Annivesary Decals
Simjet 3000 Turbine
Futaba 8 Channel R/c Gear with 10 extra servo's
Shipping worldwide is free and insured.


MB339 For Sale (Kit)
Item Number 6163
Quantity 1
Price $4,000.00
Location Cambridge N/A UNITED KINGDOM
Jet Team MB339
Jet Team Retracts and scale struts
Wheels
Wheel Brakes
Cockpit set
Wren MW44 Turbine
Frecce Tricolori Decals (Italian Display Team)
Futaba 8 Channel R/c Gear with extra servo's.

Tam,
to wire money into your account, you have to provide your account number to the buyers bank. I wouldn't give out you account number to anyone. I just sold a very expensive car and had the same problem of exchanging funds. The way I dealt with this problem was I had the buyer send me a bank certified check and deposited it in my account. Once my bank cleared the check (10 working days) I could draw on the amount. Then I had the person pick up my car, who by the way was from another state.
After talking to my bank, they said that even certified checks are not certified anymore.

CHris

Ralph,

That is a scam.. He tried to sell an Avonds F-15 w/p200, Avonds F-16 w/P-160, and Yellow F-15 with DF units/engine etc.. just recently

Chris,
I'm worry about giving account for someone to wire the money.
If someone try to get money out of my account.
Whom pay for it?
The banks right. Their had security systems not allow theft to get in to your account.
If that system fails. The bank be out of business. We all kept out money some safe place instead the bank right.
If theft try screwing around with your bank account. Is the bank job report to the Fed.
You just said is the bank false to allow this activity on your account and the bank take 100% lost. You still won't loose any money. Trust little time talking to the bank.

Bank cashier check also can be counterfit. Sometime the fund was deposit to your account. But the bank can take it back if the check was bad.

Don't forget our family still own 2 liquors store with check cashing business.
We encounter this problem very often. Our average lost due counterfit bank check and payroll check about 10% of the money we earn from cashing check.

Tam

Just us the old rule..

If it sounds too good to be true.. it probably is..

-Doug

Its a scam the check most likely is from a bank in Nigiera on a non existant account
A friend of mine was trying to be sucked into the same deal in selling a car "An agent
of the purchaser would pick it up" and the same check BS storyThe check was from
Nigiera she turned it over to the scam unit at the poice dept

Tam,
I hear you, but if you do the transaction my way, there's 0% loss on your end. In my book 0% loss is always better than 10%!

There is at least one persistent scammer who keeps trying to use RCU to hoodwink users. We've closed down numerous accounts that he has set up over the last year or so here, but it's not exactly hard to sign up again.

If you suspect that you may be dealing with this individual, ask him for a highly staged photograph. e.g. if he is offering to sell a package including a Jetcat P120 and a Kingcat, ask him for one photograph of the engine showing his left index finger pointing to the serial number, and another photo showing him holding the engine in one hand and the Kingcat canopy in the other. Since he does not have the goods he is pretending to sell, he will not be able to deliver the photos you asked for.

If the person is genuine, and does have the goods, then he should be willing to put up with the inconvenience of such a staged photograph if he is expecting several thousand dollars out of the sale.

The above is a little trick that I learned from good old EasyTiger.

Also, if the seller is in another country, and you are definitely interested in the deal, consider whether you can find someone who lives close enough to the seller, that they might go over and inspect the goods, send you pics, and take delivery (or supervise the shipping) on your behalf. Even if you have to pay that person some token travel expenses, it may be worth it for the peace of mind.

Gordon

They will also send an authentic looking Bank Cashiers Check drawn on a US bank. Had a friend selling some exercise equipment. She sensed the scam and the scammer sent her the check. It was drawn on a major bank from Ohio. She called the bank and the bank confirmed it was bogus.

Funny, the spammer never contacted her for the check back!!!

Be most careful....

Dan

I had this fellow from Nigeria try the same scam on a car I have for sale. I egged him on to the point where he sent the check. I gave him the address of the the State Dept. of Consumer Protedtion and the name of one of the state employees. The check was a bogus cashiers check written on the Wells Fargo Bank. The FBI and bank examiners are now after him!!

Also, I have just sent Marc (RCAdmin) a proposal that we have a "Suspended pending verification" moderator-private forum that we can move any genuinely suspect ads into. That might help ensure that no-one gets taken while we are working behind the scenes to verify that the seller does have the goods.

No doubt there is a down-side ... we may sometimes temporarily suspend an ad that is genuine, thereby upsetting the seller - but I'd rather appologize profusely to someone who's ad I was wrong about, than risk seeing RCU users get ripped off in responding to the ad while we are still trying to verify it.


Last but not least - I am happy to pass on the good news that Wren have offered to try to help any prospective purchasers of second-hand equipment check on the history of the engine being offered for sale. The following quote comes direct from Sara Parish of Wren.

I'm sure most of the other turbine manufacturers would likewise be willing to help verify the authenticity (etc) of any of their engines, given a serial number.

While the mod's will do what we can to weed out any suspected scammers, please take the time to do your homework so as to help protect yourself.

Regards,
Gordon

Exactly,
Bank cahier check can be counterfit. We had it happen to our business. The check was deposit to account and post the fund. The reason for the bank to post the money to your
account is the account on the check is real. But the check is counterfit. The account that was taken money was belong to someone else. That person report it. Than the bank go back to check it out. So is not the bank false to proceed the cahier check. It the person whom deposit it. So the person deposit the counterfit check take the lost.
Bank teller don't get pay enough to pay attention to this. So there just ran thru deposit and didn't bother took look the check and the account holder.
Electronic wire is the best method.
It made impossible for theft to scam.
To do money tranfer. It had to be done at the bank. So ID was ask and signature need to be approval.

Chris,
That why I told you cashier check can be counterfit. Sometime it take more than 10 days to find out.
Sometime the funds was release in couple days. You though everything is O.K. and release your good.
Proffesional scam doing this very often to check cashing business.
That why the bank need 50K CD account for us able to do check cashing business. We had to take the lost. Bank don;t do anythings. We have to report to police ourself too.
Is always better let the bank handle the transaction.

Brg,
Tam

TAM: Hey buddy I don't mean to rain on your day but this is how I was ripped off with wire transfer up till a few months ago when I was selling jets I used to accept this means of payment. The scam works like this, you the seller give the buyer your account # the buyer deposites a fake check into your account you the seller then look at your account and notice that bingo you have funds into your account ( wrong) Mean while you think that the funds have been wired into your account you ship the airplane
and a week or two later the check bounces and you get nailed for the insuffant funds and you loose your aircraft. Guy's do not give anyone your account # for bank wire transfer unless you can verify and talk to a banker on the other end that can verify that the person has cash on hand. Its to easy to go to your bank with a supplied account # with a fake check and deposit it into your own account.... Take care Randy

Hi Gordon

We're more than happy to help prospective buyers with any SimJet engine purchases. Which brings to mind that George's 1200 is still AWOL.

Good luck with the anti-scam campaign.

Ed

This type of scam is rampant, I export medical imaging equipment and we get the same exact con artist proposals every week. It is just a shame that you cannot even enjoy your hobby without the scam artists ruining your day. I guess that it is really very simple, they follow the money! Right now there is plenty of dollars associated with RC, especially jets.

I think with all the payment method variables nowadays the photo request method is a pretty quick and fuss free way to tell how legitimate any 2nd hand model sale is...
When already talking about secure payment methods options or not you are already presuming model or equipment etc. are legit and as advertised correct? And you may have already decided to go ahead with the deal. Before reaching that point I always ask seller for numerous photos of various angles and parts of a sale subject. I think this is about as much fail safe a method as any....

For example- Some time ago (approx 6 months) I responded to an ad here on RCU for a RTF Graupner MB339 as advertised by a fellow named Richard???? supposedly located in London, U.K. Richard was offering me an awesome deal on his ready to fly Graupner MB339 complete with P-160.... he rang me straight away upon my email inquiry and was very anxious to sell me all sorts of 'great stuff'
'Off the bat' I was very skeptical I must say, so I asked for pics showing complete model, turbine installation, underside of model, gear, close up surface detail and radio compartment.
Some days later I receive stock pics of Cermark MB339 and separate stock pic of P-160....
Say no more eh!!!!
I already new it was a scam in this case from the outset as at that point I personally new the Graupner MB339 had not yet hit the market....

Theres always an element of risk involved when purchasing anything site unseen!
So far I have been 99% lucky so far using the simple photo request method when inquiring about any models. As previously mentioned in this thread anyone in the hobby who is legitimate and seriously interested in selling their expensive models will send you numerous photos and on request from any angle with pleasure from my experience....

IMHO Always request plenty of detailed photos before anything else is discussed....

Cheers-

Randy,
Electronic wire is not a deposit. The other party must had the fund in the bank to do the transfer. I transfer my money to other vender oversea. It a hassle process. But it is good for recieving party.

Your case is different. You give account to someone. They took their check and put in your account for deposit. That consider deposit.
So that is the same thing accepting bad check. The bank will take those money out of your account for none IFF.

That wide I like to accept money transfer from customer that I don't know. Specialy outside of the country.
Once the transfer was done. The money is in my account. The sending party can't reverse the transaction without the bank and my approval.
Creditcard is risky too. Their can reverse the transaction just by saying the never got the products.

Brg,
Tam

"i have a made a solid arrangement
on how my shipping agent will come to your location and make the
arrangement with you to pick the BVM BOBCAT up." (Nigerian scam)

Is this a joke? The guy can barely speak the English language! He also probably doesn't even know what a Bobcat is...except for the fact that it's worth a lot of money. I agree, it's a shame that these scumbags have weeded themselves into the RC genre. It just goes to show, you always have to keep your guard up...even on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
//////////////////////////////
Hi Gordon,

I respectfully disagree. The tone and grammer of the scam in question is distinctly Nigerian. If you read enough of these, they begin to stick out like sore thumbs. I agree that many jet and RC modelers have serious problems with spelling and composition. However, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a NIB Byron F16 from "Billy Bob in Nebraska" just because "he don't spell his English too good". Re-read the top sentence; "I have made a SOLID arrangement ON HOW my shipping agent...." Billy Bob would never write like this. The scam is obviously written by a non-native English speaker, who's attempting to sound more intelligent than he really is. However, if Billy Bob kept emails going with me, bad grammer and all, fully intending to deceive me, then yes, I'd probably be taken for a ride. But, it'd be in the manner of him not sending the plane or a crashed plane etc... Billy Bob from the good ol' US of A isn't the type to say," Uhhh, I have a friend who's going to meet with you after I get your bank account number, which I'm going to deposit a large sum that you can hold for me in exchange for your BVM model aircraft representing the General Dynamics Corporation, that I intend to return to my country blah, blah, blah. " Next thing you know, your entire bank account is wiped out. In my opinion, these kinds of statements have NIGERIAN written all over them. -Steve

What does one's command of the English language have to do with scamming ? There are numerous people here on RCU whose command of English is less than perfect, but whose trading ethics are impeccable.

BTW, the most persistent scammer to frequent RCU is actually English. Consequently, if you elect to use someone's English language skills as a gauge of whether he / she is likely to be a scammer, then you are wide open to be taken by this individual.

Gordon

Hey guys i just wanted to drop a quick line and feed this forum a bit with an encounter i JUST finished up TONIGHT. His name on here is LuiG I am selling an F-18 RTF and he was interested, so we talked he changed his prefered payment often throughout a few days asked me for pics etc. I EVEN SENT HIM A COPY OF MY AMA, LISCENSE AND A BUSINESS CARD! My mistake there. Anyways it was selling for 2000.00 and he sent the "Bankers Check" i went opened up a NEW account for it and they said it could take 60-90 days to FULLY clear if you have it checked. WOW!! This would have been the SECOND time ive EVER been scammed the other was the typical i have a friend who owes me money etc. i would have been out 8000.00. And to top this whole thing off the DAY he emailed me with interest was the DAY he joined RCU!! Does that not set up a MAJOR red flag?? ANYONE?? Well i wont keep going but here is a copy of a few of our emails to eachother, he could be legitimate i dont know but i dont really want to take my chances. Ya know what i mean?? Here they are. And one more thing he was of Latin decent (spanish, mexican)?? im not racial but his english really sucked in the first couple emails, look how good he speaks english in the last two. There a little bit upside down because i wrote him and saved my sent messages so youll read my response then his:

Luis,

To me it is seeming that you are the one doing the counterfiting. Why would your RCU account suddenly be opend the DAY of your offer, sounds suspicious doesnt it?? and then you are willing to buy it as fast as you could, PLUS you wanted all this information about me and i sent everything you asked EXCEPT a picture of me which you never stated to say that you wanted one of me and the jet, that would not have been a problem, If i were a thief wouldnt you think that i would have a bad review in the year and a half that i have been on RCU?? Most would think so. When you called me at work i couldnt talk long and i said hey i have to go, so i apoligize for the sudden and abrupt hangup. As for COD with ANY COMPANY here i cannot do that due to the size of the crate i will be building for the jet. And you said you understood that when we talked on the phone a few times ago. And as for depositing the bank i opend up a SPECIAL savings account that i was going to deposit it into and the BANK, NOT A BUDDY, asked what i wanted to do. I could have them research it or just deposit it. There were a few things that made me leary of you and our deal and it was your recent subscription to RCU, the fact that when you sent you Driverse liscense, come on now YOU COULDNT EVEN SEE YOUR FACE!!! and to top it off you wanted to do almost every method of payment in the book, you know it is not hard to do a payment on paypal, and from how your emails sound you DO know how to use computers pretty well, its no harder than running a fax machine. If you call and im not busy or at work i AM willing to talk that is not an issue, so heres what I AM GOING TO DO, i will not send your money order back to you, i will 1 either have you pay through paypal for the jet and ALL MISSUNDERSTANDING WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF SO I KNOW THAT YOU ARE LEGITIMATE, or 2 i will take the money order to the police and have them research it to find out if you are for real or not, 3 we can both get on the phone with you bank and they will allow me to see if the funds are REALLY there, i cannot do this without your personal ok. If you ARE FOR REAL and not trying to screw me over on a counterfit check i will have no problems and do not mean to be rude to you but you do have to admit that there were quite a few red flags on your end that came up. So you tell me what you would like to do and we can go from there. If you do want to pay through paypal i will gladly send your VOIDED check back to you , to get a paypall account just go to paypal, register and you are allowed to do a credit card payment to me there. Or we can get on the phone with your bank and they will allow me to verify that the funds are there and they are legitimate, so let me know and we'll go from there.



\
>>>>>
>>>>>------------MESSAGE START-------------
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this F-18 still available?? if it is, I would appreciate a
>>>>>call to this # xxx-xxx-xxxx so I can find out more about it.
>>>>>this is my cell # thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>------------MESSAGE END---------------
>>>>>
>>>>>Item Link:
>>>>>http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/ite...0518&cobrand=1
>>>>>

>>>>>
>>>>>


I dont know about you guys but to me this seemed like a scam waiting to happen what are your guys thoughts?? Or was i just going off the deep end?? Let me know so i dont possibly screw up another sale?? or call me 763-439-1604 Aaron D. Sybrant

There are some creative scam artists these days. Money orders or certified cashiers checks are useless these days needing the same clearance policies as a personal check. Think about the scanners and printers availalbe to anyone to duplicate anything very easily.

Heres some advice I picked up from other various forums. Using US postal service money orders can net you another area of law enforcment involvment under the laws of US postal fraud....

Heres is a high volume dealer who has had many scams tried and posts Crook updates for all to learn and read. www.ronlund.com link to crook update....

DON'T ever give anyone your account numbers !!!!!