Whadda guy!

That surprising because I thought none of the dealers or manufacturers paid any attention to the internet......

The raising of the Jetcat prices again has me looking at other options...but I have to say this: Jetcat's service is beyond superb. They have reps at every major rally and are always willing to help you get flying, even at the expense of their own. Is that service worth the extra dough? Well...that's for each person to decide.

I just skimmed through this post, and just have to chime in ..

I have never been treated better by anyone in the hobby business than I have been by Bob Wilcox and his JetcatUSA gang ... So far I have purchased over 1/2 dozen turbines from JetCat or their dealers, and have never had a single complaint .. Bob has ALWAYS been very straight up and honest about pricing, and has gone above and beyond any of my expectations as to service and warranty work ! Bob or anyhting afiliated with him would never lie about any pricing changes, the client always comes first to these guys ..

Hey, with a 40% slip in margin values between the eur/dol, it should tell you a lot about how JetcatUSA treats their customers, as they have not hiked the prices by even close to the 40% loss in profit THEY are being hit with.


Wojtek

Planecrazy,

That does not matter a bit to me, I don't hold grudges, and certainly am not picking at you for your frustration. Believe me I have been there as well. I ordered a P-160 at Superman 2001 right after Jetcat USA was formed. I waited 16 months for it but I did get it and it has been a great engine. I have had a few problems with it but the service I got from JetCat USA has been excellent. I blew it up (FOD damage evidently) on a Saturday red freighted it to JetCat on the Monday and got it back Wednesday before leaving for and event in South Carolina. I have never felt like Bob Wilcox has every been anything but straight up with me. I can't speak for any of the dealers as I have always dealt directly with JetCat USA. We all want instant gratification, we want our engines and we want them now. This was one thing that in my opinion was the death of RAM, they started shipping engines before they were truly ready. It's frustrating but it will be worth the wait, and if you want the straight poop talk to Justin, or Bob.

As for doing business in the hobby industries. I totally understand Jetcat UAS need to raise their price to stay in business.
The expense each year go up. There is alot little fee here and there.
I wish able to raise my price too. My business are growing in the last 2 years. But my expense also go up. Now I had 3 worker helping me to kept things running smooth. I try my best to cut down expense. But I still have the hard time balance my business.
There isn't enough money in this hobby industries. The profit is very low and the time put in to support customer is unreal.
It's very sad that we had to paid more for Jetcat engine. If Jetcat USA had any other way to kept the price down. I think Bob Wilcox
already do it. I wouldn't think Bob raise his price because of high engine demand. If it is. I'm the first one hitting on his knee.

Brg,
Tam Babe

Dont be affraid to voice your opinion on something and sign your name. People will respect you for it.
No name behind a complaint really has no substance.
And yea I think it sucks that the prices go up. If they dont go down if dollar recovers, then its time to start *****in. Paid for my 200 today.
Scott

Maybe I am just lucky, but I dont get all this complaining about not being able to get engines. I ordered a 120 a year ago and had it in a week. A couple of months ago I ordered an 80 and had it in a couple of weeks. So what is the problem?

As far as prices go, the 120 cost me $3000 even, the 80 was $2850; not too bad, I think. These were bought thru dealers.

Man... You'all got it easy... Try to get a JPX 250 to run right.. Back then it was one of the only engines
around and you could drain a diving tank just in one day, starting that thing...

From what I saw the first turbomin had just as much trouble.. Don't get me
started on the Sophia 450 with the CAI stuff.. Now we have
autostart and all the engines run..

I started a JPX 250 with Jumper Cables and a Ford Pento.... I jumped
one of the spark plug wires right into the JPX, started the Pento up
(it ran ok on 3 plugs),, heard a spark inside the JPX and lit up.

There was yellow fire every were, but this was the norm..
then flew the plane for 4.5 min...

So think about waiting all this time, then getting a POS.

Eddie Weeks

You guys seem to forget something. The CONSUMER sets the price of a product. If you don't like the price.. you don't pay it.

At the same time.. Bob is in this business to make money. He is not a philanthropist, and JetCAT USA is not an outreach program. I can't fault the guy for wanting to put food on his table and clothes on his back.

Their is a lot of different makes of turbines out there. I'm sure that at least some of them are as good as JetCat and that is where I am looking. JetCat seems to be the "cadillac" of turbines and are asking the going price for their product. I have done a lot of investagating(s?) and will probably buy something that is not so expensive. I know I will get responses as to how good JetCat is and how much they test their engines, etc and I am taking all that into account. But at least some of the high price is based on perceived quality and certainly on demand. My .02 worth.

Larry

LOL Eddie you just brought back some not so fond memeroies for me, my first engine was a Turbomin.

tetons9,
my advise to you is don't try and save a few bucks by going with something cheaper. I have used a verity of turbines and can tell you I wish I started with something that was more expensive but worked. I like you (if you go with a cheaper turbine) purchased a turbine that was lower priced and promised to out perform everything else on the market. Well I had nothing but problems, I wanted to fly not screw around with constantly calling the manufacture for help, and sending the turbine back for a fix.
Take it from me and learn from my mistakes, if you want to fuel and fly go with something that really works!

Chris

.

I agree 100% on this one. My first turbine a few years ago was a P80. Started the first time i ran it, and I though how much easier and trouble free this turbine was compared to my gas and glo stuff ... When I did have problems or questions, Jetcat was always there to answer questions and give support. This enabled me to fly more, and fiddle less ...

I never really had any problems getting thurbines in pretty quickly from time of order, I got my 2 P80s, a 120, and 3 HP5s all within at most 3 weeks of ordering .. The only engine I had to wait for was the P160 which i ordered around 3 months back, and i think its shipping to me this week ..

If you compare the pricing, the Jetcat turbines are not all that much more expensive than most other brands .. for a 28lb class engine a Jetcat engine costs around 12% more than for instance a comprable Simjet engine, and from Jetcat you sure do get more than you 12%s price diference worth ... (so i don't get flamed, im not knocking Simjet, they are great engines from what I hear, and I almost bought one of their kit buiilt ones because i though it would be neat to put it together myself) ..

Its kind of like buying a car ... There is Mercedes, and then there is Toyota ... both reliable cars, but they really kiss your as* when you go get one serviced over the other, and one does come with a lot more efatures also .. .....


Wojtek


Wojtek

I got sucked into a Turbomin and then a couple of Rams, after that a couple of AMTs, then my last two purchases were Jetcat. My AMT and Jetcats make the sport fun the others?
I always think of what would happen to my plane if the turbine was not reliable. That thought allows me to choose the AMT and Jetcats over the others so far. I am not against other turbines, I just went with the turbines that had been around for some time and ones that had great references from the pilots that were flying them on a constant basis. This is my opinion and not meant to be negative in any way. For those looking for P-160s and P-120s I saw a couple of them for sale in the classifieds a while back, if I remember correctly at least one was new in box (NIB).
Paul

Yup, I have a Turbomin T-100 and T-60 for sale and I'll throw in the BRIDGE as a bonus !

Seroiusly, I converted my Turbomins to "auto-Start" (by use of timing relays in the start box on Air and Fuel ) before Auto-start was the catch phrase and as a result, my T-100 and 60 starts and runs with-out issue. (BTW, I wrote the operating manuals for the Turbomin and the RAM)
I have since designed a "propane start nozzel" for the T-60 and works great.

Don't be to shocked to see either engine in one of my Vampire's in the future as my 1/5th Vampire was designed to fit the Turbomin T-60 as that was all that was available in a kero burner at the time.

Gee, that was NOT that long ago(1995), what progress we have made and is a testiment to ALL the trubine maufacturers.

Chris,

I understand what you're saying. I have not ruled out JetCat but I'm doing my research very carefully. Your'e comments are a big help and I appreciate it. $3000 or $4000 is not something I have to buy something that only works part of the time and takes a lot of tinkering to get it to do so.

Thanks for the input.

Larry

I understand your point Wojtek, but to continue your analogy with some real world experience, I don't give a damn if they kiss my ass when I take my BMW to the shop, I would rather not be taking it in. By comparison I never took any of my Toyotas to the shop. To bring that to the modeling world, if I can get the same performance and reliability (or better) out of a less expensive engine, you are darn right I am going to buy it. If JetCat hikes their prices more, then Artes turbines and SimJets look that much better -- especially if the Artes turbine really does hold up as well as the JetCat and since Artes is the electronics guru who apparently feeds technology to the other companies and . . .

Antony

I don't think Artes is the electronics guru.

It is Gaspar.

I stand corrected by two people I would definitely defer to as being in the know.

What relation does Gaspar have to Artes Jet?

Antony

Gaspar, as in Gaspar Espiell, is the designer and producer of the FADEC ECU that controls, amongst other turbines, the Artes turbines. Other makes controlled by FADEC are TJT's and Wrens.

Chris

Bob and I were talking last night in between runs of the P-200s (BTW you guys had better have strong F-100s!). Since we don’t like being called liars and crooks we got to talking about pricing.

First, the price (in Europe) for a JetCat P-80 and P-120 has never changed since the products were introduced. The P-80 (introduced in Dec 1998) sold for 4930 DM (no euro back then, but now 2520 euros). The P-120 (introduced in Jan 1999) sold for 5867 DM (now 3000 euros). These are the same prices today, years later, no change at all.

So lets take the P-120 as an example. The last time Golden West sold one, I think they where charging $3695, back in 2000 (not sure when they sold the last one there). At the exchange rates at the time, the motor cost $3750 in Europe (remember, same 3000 euros)

When JetCat USA started in Sept 2001, the US price of a P-120 IMMEDIATELY DROPPED to $2795, as the euro had come on line and was weak. The price was the same in Europe, 3000 euros. So the equivalent price in Europe was $2700, so you were paying a grand total of $95 for all of the additional support we have with JetCat USA( but of course our European friends always pay massive VAT (tax) so their out the door price was MUCH more than you pay here).

Now go forward 2 years to today…the price in Europe is still 3000 euros….. no change. That is equivalent to US$3666. We are currently charging $3595 with the price going to $3695 in January.

If the euro drops we will drop the prices, if it goes up we might have to raise them more. But as you can see, this US price has always been tied to the European price. We made the immediate drop the first day JetCat USA opened, and price increases have come sporadically as the euro climbed and hurt our business. In the meantime all of the costs have gone up, spare parts, salaries, rent, equipment. We have new employees to help run the business and support the customers. We must find efficiencies of scale to succeed, that means expanding the market, developing new products (P-70, P-160, P-200, HP5), all the while maintaining very high levels of support. As Tam said, the expected support level in the hobby business is very high and companies are severely punished if they do not provide it.

As someone said earlier, it is really up to the marketplace to decide whether JetCat USA and the product are worth the money. In all honesty, RAM raised the bar with their service commitment…our chief competition helped mold us as a company. JetCats have been available for a long time, I had one of the first 5 in the US in 1998. But the sales were low…. RAM was a big competitor back then. When JetCat USA formed, we knew we had to provide a level of support and service at least on a par with them or we could not make any inroads.

So of course there are other business models in the turbine world that say “don’t worry, you do not need service cause the motor is so scary great”, or “it is OK to send the motor back to Timbuktu for a repair”, etc. We can actually_build_the motors in California, and believe me it takes more than screw driver and clearing off the kitchen table!

Like they say, you pays your money and you takes your chances!

Turbomins??? JPX 250's???? Man, you guys had it easy!!! My first turbine was a JPX 240....

My buddy has been a flyer of JetCat turbines for a loooong time and owns several. (He has the ninth P-80 in this country) I have seen first hand how Bob Wilcox and company has treated him as a customer....Nothing but first rate!!! Due to the good treatment he has received from JetCat USA he will ONLY deal with them even when other dealers are offering a "free" jet with the purchase of their turbine. Now THAT'S loyalty!!!! This loyalty stems from excellent customer service, but most importantly.....HONESTY!!! JetCat USA are not a bunch of liars...Quite the contrary!!! Many things are out of the hands of JetCat USA and are in the hands of the parent company in Europe. All of this griping is just going to cause JetCat to keep any new developments or release dates in the future very secretive....Then you'll hear the gripes from those that weren't informed of a new product being released and bought the older one just a week prior-----Matt, I guess you guys will never win.......

Kevin

All I have to say is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!!! I got a P-160 from BV about 3 months ago and out of the box It just didnt run right. I sent it right back to JetCat USA and within a week it was back with an apology and an upgrade..NO CHARGE!!! They admitted it should ahve never left the shop and for that I got a sincere apology. That right there guys honesty and integrity will keep me coming back every time I will not purchase any other engines than JetCat. If the price guys up 500 bucks and the engines are bulletproof and your 10,000 dollar jets are safe in the air because the engines run flawlessly, thank them rather then b..ch at them. I feel that there price increases are justified and I applaud them for trying to keep the same profit margin as before the decline of the dollar. Thanks for being honest guys, you have me as a customer for a long time.

Pete Faller

PS buy the way for those that will ask, I was on the phone with BV and he said he can get me one right away and did. He had no idea that it had a problem. Nobody did till I ran it.