Remember,
it is HIS aircraft -he can put his choice of engine on - why do you have such a problem with it ? What's REALLY going on here ?


Jackjet

Jacjet

wat du yu knowd or card? yu fly not muoch hum?

Bangedup,
actually I fly a lot. Since this IS a free country - you can do as you please -as long as you do not hurt anyone else. So it Wojetk wants to run a P200 in his King Cat - please do not " trip " on it. Just go fly and have fun. Read my post about using a P200 in the KingCat and tell me what you think.

Jackjet

Hi Wojtek, Some years ago, a local guy installed a Amt Olympus in a nomex-built F-15, (same size of P.Avonds kit) and it flew fine, (the acceleration and sound at take-off was amazing!) the only issue was the "heavy" feeling of the plane at the beginning of flight . Please post a flight report of the P-200 on the KC to us know how it flies and if the residual thrust is a issue too.

Regards, Enrique

My turn to upset some people.

No where in the AMA safety code does it state the regulations only apply at chartered clubs or sanctioned events. If you accept the membership and the benefits is offers (say good bye to most model field in the US with out the AMA) you accept its regulations. Regardless of where you do it in the US, violating the regulations is violating the regulations.

The notion that you can do as you wish at a “non AMA� site, if you are an AMA member is BS. If you have a major accident and lawyers start looking for who all they can get money from, you can bet they will go after the AMA. You cannot choose who they sue! If you do have the accident without the waiver they might get out with only paying tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, if a Judge and/or Jury decide that way, but it is not up to you.

If you are honest with the IRS and your spouse, why not be honest with the AMA?

Steven

P.S. I do not care what engine someone puts on their model, just operate within the regulations.

Check out Wojtek's other posts. Seems that recently he purposely destroyed a plane (182 I believe) and bragged about it.
Some people.........................geeze

Ron Ballard

[/quote]

Wojtek,
Eben in India we do not have camels as stupid as you. Putting a P 200 on a Kingcat is like putting a big block V-8 on a go cart and then driving around with the brake on. You are not to bright.
Mr. Whitchman you not bright eiber.
AMA and fellow modellers should pull plug on you before you burn down camel watering hole
[/quote]


I hate to intrude on the thread but I must point out I find your comments absurd and tasteless with your mockery. First of all Bangkok is not in India but in Thailand. By showing such open iggnornace you offend those with decency. Your reference to camels and purposely mispelled words is insulting. Having heritage from that region I find it offensive. Respond to the posts accordingly in a manner consistant with who you are otherwise go away. Admins are aware of you and you will be dealt with.

On a side not I find you would never act or say what you say here in public, at least you wouldnt get away with it around me.

regards

matt

I doubt you guys have ever been to Tailhook (back in the old days)?

Rave on, please (you know who I am talking to).

Are you referencing: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/spee...1888016/tm.htm

Gentlemen, please read the whole thread and make up your mind.

I rest my case.


Regards

Ben

I have been flying an Isobar with a 42 lbs of thrust for years... Its no big deal
Its just one more level of responsibility you assume when you take to the air..

All though I tested my plane at full power, strait and level years ago, it has not
been at those speeds since.

The only problem I see with a too big an engine is you may exceed the V_MAX of the
plane. This can easily be fix by grinding a small notch on the ratchet of your throttle
stick at about %85 power. (i.e. 30-35 lbs of thrust)..

As we fly our planes we can't look down to see where the throttle stick is and can only guess at
our power setting by the airspeed or how many click off full.

This will give you more info to help you fly your plane at a know constant speed..

I don't see what the big deal is. When we fly, our job is to "Not crash the plane"
I don't see how adding "Don't go full power in a dive or straight and level too long"
is going to make flying any more difficult.

BTW... Flying RC jets has no purpose... Its just fun.. Everyone on this list has fun in different ways.
How can anyone on this list tell someone else HOW to have fun is amassing.

Eddie Weeks
http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_16...tm.htm#1666606 seems to answer your question about mounting the engine without cutting the fuz and without causing a CG issue.

Gordon

Wow this got ugly quick! Even managed to make 3DHELI-NUT (one of the nicest guys at field helping everyone with setups) upset. On a more + note, 3DHELI-NUT did you make it to Madras? I got caught up in family stuff and weather looked iffy. Will make it next year! Looks like you actually have the Kingcat, so whats your impression on the better flyer, Kingcat or Eurosport?

Mike

Go to BVM's website and see what he says.

Gordon, thanks for the link , i appreciate it ....



dont let the ignorance kick you on the way out the door .... this is not the case, if it was, you would have to have a field set up as per AMA regulations wherever you fly, in terms of pits area placement, flight line etc .... just because i hold a NJ state license, does not mean i cant go to the race track and drive my TT at 150MPH !! same with the AMA, i can not be governed or regulated by them outside of their juristiction (ama fieldsand events) ... lawyers will sue everyone and anyone anyway ... go do your homework forst , and then maybe you can speak a little more knowledgeably .. for now, you are aparently confused ...


also to all you critics of the 200 on the KingCat, why are you not bashing everyone else that has a 200 on theirs ???? hmmmm is it because they are reps to certain vendors ??? what ? the cat bit your balls off ??? im sorry if you can not handle your planes well , and a p120 even too much for you to handle ... if you cant handle 1.5 lbs of residual thruse, a higher landing speed, and more weight, then it does not mean i can not !! If in your opinion i am such an idiot for puthin the P200 on the KC, then i guess a lot of the major manufacturers and their reps are idiots too .... One manufacturer in fact personally told me that the plane/engine combo is absolutely "awesome" ...


as for what i do with my stuff, as some of you have brought up, it MY BUSINESS !!! what i do on pribate property , with myt private belingings !! yes !I felt like puting a 91 on a 40 sized cessna, and pulling full up elevator after i got borred ... so what ???? I did this on PRIVATE property, and was on not way endangeting anyone except the worms in the dirt .... and yes !! i did shoot up a RC scale heli with paintballs for target practice !! again !! on private property !! and without endangering anyone or anything !! and guess what !!! I will do it again !! , and guess what ... i take my Mercedes Benz off roading !!! rally car style !!! so ! what !! its on pribate property, and its my damn car !! who are you to determine what i should or should not do with my property ? im sorry, but i do not want to or have to be like you !! this is not communism here !! you are acting like a bunch of communists here !!

yet again, in a public forum, i am coming to realize that the majority of the public is DEFICIENT AND SIMPLE !!

I started this thread to discuss technical and light issues and solutions with a KC with a p200, not to be bashed ... i tank the people here who provided info, or links to info that was pertinent to the topic , I ended up privately contacting people who have p200s on their KCs .... the forum got to miss out on what could have been a productive discussion .....


im out of here , and probably off of RCU for a while ..... im fed up with all this stupidity, ignorance, and arrogance ..........

Wojtek

Eddie, i like that idea with nothchin the throttle for knowhin what position you are at ... i think i will nothc 1/2 amd 3/4 on my aiplane transmitters .. I am puting a speed limiter on the airfram so i do not have to worry about exceding its structaul capabilities, or taking it to its maximum aerodynamic drag level ... the only time 45 lbs will be usefull would be for super fast acceleration to the speed limiter setting (around 200 - 210) and for straight up verticals ...

as goes for that notch idea, i think it will be usefull no mattter what i fly , prop, jet , whatever (except helis) ....
thanks !!



Wojtek

Thanks Steve for your comments........This "AMA Field" nonsense has been coming up ever since the AMA started insuring site owners and every new bunch of guys that come along fail to review history and thus are doomed to repeat it.......

1. There is no such thing as an "AMA Field". There only are fields used by chartered clubs that have supplemental insurance provided by the AMA to cover the site owner. The AMA requires all rules to be followed at that field in order for the SITE OWNER to be covered in the event of an accident, i.e. all flyers must be AMA members, and all turbine flyers must be waivered. That is where their influence ends......in no way do they "require" a site inspection or demand specific layout parameters before flying can be authorized at a field......they only make suggestions in that regard.......and publish these suggestions in the AMA Handbook each year.....

2. If you are an AMA member, you are required to abide by AMA rules for your PERSONAL liability insurance to be in effect.......if you have an accident leading to a liability claim, it makes no difference whether the accident was at the Muncie HQ Field or in a remote part of Death Valley.......the AMA's Insurance Company, as your insurer, will be named in the suit.....if an AMA member was flying without a waiver or in violation of any other rule, the AMA and it's Insurance company will make every attempt to disqualify the violating member's insurance and get the AMA removed from the suit.....but that will often require years of expensive litigation in a typical liability suit.....but..... if they lose, all rule-abiding AMA members lose, as, inevitably, it will make our insurance more expensive and more difficult to obtain.....

3. The only way the AMA is ever going to stop members from violating the rules is to have a clear cut policy of revocation of AMA membership when turbine waiver rules are flagrantly violated. None currently exists, unfortunately.....until such Draconian rules are instituted, we will continue to have AMA Members touting their inalienable ability to do whatever they damn please at fictitious "Non-AMA" fields.....

4. If an individual has an insatiable, deep-rooted desire to fly turbines while violating one or more AMA rules, I would strongly encourage them to surrender their AMA membership and then go fly at their "Non-AMA" fields.....that way the "Group and Several Liability" legal concept can't be invoked against the AMA, it's insurers, and it's rule-abiding members.....

5. If the above statements still bamboozle anyone, consider that AMA member liability insurance is much like automobile liability insurance.......IT COVERS THE DRIVER, AND NOT THE CAR!!!......makes no difference if you kill someone on a public highway, or on your own PRIVATE 100 acres in the middle of the Mojave desert.....both you and your insurance company WILL be named in the suit......and the outcome will have an indirect influence on all the other members insured by your company......

That is the nice thing about AMA Personal Liability Policy......it covers you whereever you choose to fly.......as long as you abide by the rules........

Tom

wrong again !!



as for the AMA thing, if i fly at a field that is not chartered by the ama, yeas, i a not covered by their insurance .... as gos for people suing the AMA anyway ... hey, this is America and people sue for everything ... its a sad fact and everyone has to deal with it ... belonging to an organization like the AMA does not automatucally mean that you have to abide by their rules at every point in your life !! If the AMA decides to pull my membership because i have violated thir regulations, while on private , non AMA in any way related flying area, then i tell you what I will be the one suing for rights and privacy violation !! what you are saying is like having a drivers license in a state with a 55mph speed limit, and then when your home state finds out you went 75 in another state which permits it, you get your license pulled ... get with the logic here you people ..... the AMA also says that no part of the plane should toutch the ground except for the landing gear (intentionally) ... so if i fly my foam electric inside my house and start tapping the rudde on the ground .. will the AMA have the right to cancel my membership ? how about it i have a private airport and i fly a 90lbs RC plane without having specific AMA "experimental" exemption ? what about then ?? the AMA IS NOT A FEDERAL AGENCY !! it is not more than a glorified club, which acts as an interest group, and a rather crappy insurance company ....

So, I will keep flying over 200mph if i please and if the AMA wants to pull my membership, they can see my and my lawyer in court !!


now going back to my original post, it in itself does not even indicate any violation of the AMA rules as it is !!!! i am puting a 45lbs engine on a plne which is within the legal limit, and sice i am exceeding a 1:1 t ratio, i am using a speed limter !!!

going back to another point .. why are none of you muppets bashing everyone else that flies over 200 regularly ?? is it because they are product manufacturers, distributors and reps ??

A lot of the guys who have also been in this hobby for a long time have told me to just do what i do and keep my mouth shut ... i just cant do that, i have no problem doing somehting that is not wrong (even though some sellect ignorants think it is ) and speaking about it .... why should i succumb under your communist like theories and opinions ??


Wojtek

Then the above is a perfectly good reason why the AMA should stop coming up with stupid and unnecessary rules. A lot of people fly at non-AMA chartered fields in order to get some freedom from the "You mustn't fly at 200.01+ mph" or "you mustn't fly at 55.01+ lb AUW" turbine-only restrictions. If the AMA were more interested in inclusion than exclusion, and treating all segments of the hobby equally fairly, then there would be less reason for people to sometimes choose to fly outside of the AMA's influence, and consequently more influence would be available for the things that really do matter.

Since the AMA already claimed to have clearly defined policies for revoking waivers, yet steadfastly refuses to actually do anything when other AMA waiver holders, TCDs etc file written complaints that meet the AMA's guidelines for requesting a waiver revocation... I don't see the above ever happening (at least not while the current mismanagement team is in place).

I can tell you for sure that that aint gonna happen, especially while there are so many hypocrites around ... people who go out of their way to publicly defend the current AMA rules while privately admitting that they have no intention of obeying those same rules.

Gordon

Perhaps things are different in New Jersey, but elsewhere in the United States, CLUBS ARE CHARTERED, NOT FIELDS.....

If you wish, I will fax you our club charter, front and back....there is no mention of a field charter.....as club treasurer, I have been submitting the paperwork for the last 3 years and have NEVER chartered our field.......

As noted in my prior post, the only paperwork involving any description of the field is in the SUPPLEMENTAL SITE OWNERS POLICY and that actually is an optional policy....some site owners carry their own liability insurance, like one of the local airports I use to fly jets ....in order for the SITE OWNER'S policy to be in full effect, the AMA requires that only AMA members are allowed to use the field, and that the Natiional Safety Code is enforced....

If you really think about your above quote, that would mean that whenever I fly my electric at a park, my glider or lightweight power plane at a local college campus, or my jets at a local airport, WITH THEIR PERMISSION, of course, and abiding by AMA rules, I would not be covered by AMA Liability insurance......makes no sense, right? Why? Because I am covered!! That IS the beauty of our AMA personal liability policy....it is portable and sticks with us whereever we fly.........as long as we abide by the AMA National Safety Code.....

Enough said on that topic.....A quick call to AMA HQ Insurance Division will add further clarification if you still don't get it.......or if you want to save a dime, carefully read the condensed policy explanation we all get with our membership renewal, or ask one of the JPO Safety Committee members for a copy of the Master Policy.....

As I noted above, until the AMA decides it is time to let the other shoe fall and starts revoking memberships, there is nothing to prevent you from conveniently using your AMA membership to fly at fields maintained by Chartered AMA clubs, while at the same time feeling no need to abide by the National Safety Code when flying your turbines at a field that is not maintained by a chartered club.....just takes balls on your part, knowing that your activities may well affect, at least indirectly, the future insurability of those of us who do our best to abide by the rather simple set of rules we now operate under.....

In regards to P-200 on KC.......old news.... Redman, Reid, and Marr have done it......not a good choice...Save that ugly mutha 200 for a 50 lb scale project, not a 28 lb ARF......I've had the chance to see David Reid and Scott Marr put allot of flights on their KC/P-200s before the demise of David's engine and Scott's plane......all it does is add weight, and make it more difficult to land due to significant increased residual thrust.....IMO, the P-160 on my KC, or Scott's previous engine, the BMT 120/160, are a perfect match, although you can extract essentially all the aerobatic capabilities of the KC with a P-120, if you are sufficiently skilled, of course, as evidenced by the demos put on with the KC/P-120 combo by Jason Somes, BV, and David Shulman.....


Tom

Gordon:

Your replies echo one I used to use regularly with my mum and dad when I was a teenager, and my kids used on me......."Why are you hassling me.....Geez everyone else is doing it"........

Time to move to a higher logical level on the decision tree and leave that one for the teeny-bopper set......


Tom

Tom,
Are you in favor of procedures that could revoke any AMA member for safety code violations or just turbine modelers?
I'm really getting fed up with turbine modelers having to walk point for the AMA bureaucracy and for insurance coverage. The insurance is the stick that AMA uses to force compliance, just like the FEDS; they can't force states to enact laws, but, oh by the way, if you don't reduce the speed limit in your state we're going to cut off all your millions of dollars in federal highway funds. I just wish AMA would get rid of the insurance all together, let the local clubs deal with the field owner, or by the property themselves and let each modeler be responsible for their individual coverage.
If Johnny Clemmens could see how his suggestion so many years ago for some insurance coverage has turned into this monster, well, I'm sure he would just shake his head in disbelief.
I guess it just proves the old adage that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Jon

iwould rathert use a P160 any day, but JetCat does not carry these currently and wont for some time .. in fact, those engines mighr even get pulled untill the engineers in Germany redesign them, ... as for me, no a p120 is not wnough , so, the p200 is the next thing up. This is my 8 th JetCat turbine, and i intend to stick with that brand ... I thought of the AT400 when the P200s availability seemed delayed, but that engine is actually heavier than the P200 as per web site posted specs .... I do not wish to look at other brans ....


as for flying at non AMA fields or no, what is so against the rules from using a P200 on a 27lbs plane ?? I clearly stated that i will have a speed limited and will be going no more than 210 ..... are you telling me you are causing the hell over 10mph ??? grow up ! as goes for the heavier weight, if you have a p120 in your KC, and devide to use a clear cockpit and deck kit with a pilot .. guess what !! you will need to add a P200s equivelant of weight to the rear end anyway !!! as for residual thrust, i can deal with it .. its my problem and not yours !! One of the guys I spoke to that has a p200 on his KC says its absolutely "awesome" and flies great ! the same was told to me by product reps and distributors ... (im not naming peopl because i dont want to be dragging others into this mess you people have made of this thread .. ) I have another p200 also on order for a plane that actually "needs" it , but i intend to be going over 200mph with that one also ! [>:] ( again for all you savants ! AT NON AMA CONTROLLED SITES )


stop your crying and your moaning !! you people complain about the AMA's regulations all the time, but when someone does not to have to follow them, and does not follow them , outside of the AMA juristiction you complain about that too ... what gives ?? plus , this 200mph thing has no safety significance anyway !! its a number made up out of nonsese and geriatric stupidity !


when i am going over 200, it by what ? 10 - 20 mph ? if even ??? 200 is in fact very fast ... and for how long ? 2 seconds ? 3 ? befor i have to pull up, and immediately loose speed ?


I will be showing up at a couple of jet rallies this year (and yes, i will have a waiver ! so dont start that crap) , so if you want , stand there with a speed limiter, and see if i break any reles then, thats when it will matter ... or should i now be afraid of some of you bitter old fart of shooting me down when im flying ???


going back to my original point, if i am insured, licensed and regitered to drive in a state with a 55mph speed limit, does this mean i can not go 75 in another state which permits that speed limit ?

I spoke to my lawyer/friend about this issue today (this is a guy i use to deal with some of my large clients, some of whom are in the fortune 1000 range, and he is as good as it gets ... ) The way federal and state laws are written, an agency like the AMA can not enforce you from following their rules when not under their juristiction (sch as a chartered field or sanctioned event), doing so would be violating privacy and civil rights regulations !! if i violate the regs (again, at a non AMA site) and the AMA pulls my membership this is ILLEGAL !! doing so would b preventing me from using facilities which are very often funded by my tax $$ which i am legally entitled to use (such as a flying field on state/county land) the ama pulling my membership would cause me not to be abole to fly a 40 sized prop job at the local county operated field ... guess what, if i filed a complit to the county, they do not care if i did not violate the rules under AMA juristiction ... this could even lead to a state or county to have to shut a field doen to avoid paying out in a dicrimination case ...

Also, for your information, i have been threatened via 2 anonymous emails that some of you readers of this thread are going to report me to the AMA for "dangerous and wreckless behavior" purely based on this thread !!! One of the email addresses has been traced to AOL and a report has been filed. otherwise, if the AMA were to report any complints to me, they are under the legal obligation to release the identities of the complaintants if suppenad !! If anyone makes any false acusations or reports , im tellin you now, you will be sorry !! as i will drag this through the mud just for the hell of it !! i have the money, and time to do it, and am agravated enough !! Dont threaten me based on false facts and your geriatric assumptions !



Wojtek

come on !!! try to take my AMA card away !!! I dare you !!! ....

Jon:

Our insurance is really not that bad, though some may think otherwise......AMA members and citizens alike have collected allot of money from the programs each and every year......

The site owner coverage is my big bugaboo as Treasurer and one of the Board Members of our local Club.......the first dollar coverage offered by the AMA for the almost neglibible premium charged is one great deal........our club of 65 members has looked into alternative coverage, but there is none offered that has the relatively seamless coverage offered thru AMA........and at prices starting about 2500 bucks a year....and up to stratosphere......if we lose our AMA site coverage, we lose our field......like next day express.......

As far as our personal liability coverage, well, that may be fraught with more problems with it's hookup with homeowners, but still lots of money is paid out each year for claims, so it is serving some members.......many of us back it up with a relatively inexpensive Umbrella, so it is less of a problem for most of us flying big iron, either Giant Scale, Pylons, or Turbines......

As far as this thread goes, what started out as a reasonable question about a P-200 on a KingCat, turned into another rant, one is a series of Wojtek rants, filled with misconceptions about outlaws operating turbines on the "non-AMA chartered field" which does not really exist.....what exists, and where Wojtek presumably flies is a field where the owner doesn't know or doesn't care about liability and allows a non-turbine-waivered AMA member to fly turbines, essentially naked of any AMA insurance coverage for the site owner or for the pilot due to flagrant National Safety Code/Turbine Regulations violations......that's fine if Wojtek and the landowner want to play the game that way, but only if he were not an AMA member...... but since he is, if he screws up, which by his own admission seems to more than infrequently by the number of planes he crashes, all of us in the AMA membership can get dragged into his outlaw crap by further exposing our insurance coverage to more uncertainties.........I doubt AMA's insurance underwriters really dig hearing about NON-WAIVERED AMA pilots flying turbines wherever, whenever, and as fast as they damn please.......knowing full well that, in the event of an injury accident, the plaintiff's attorney will drag in the AMA and it's insurance carrier without even so much as asking "Please"......

Wojtek knows all this.........I mean, he can't really be serious, calling moderators communists.......it's gotta be a Wojtek-Brand of humor......I would hope he would have a little more insight into a political regime that murdered 40 million people in the 20th century and imprisoned for life almost as many........Wojtek's attempt to establish a moral equivalency with commie behavior, when a moderator deletes a post....but he is not alone....now we got another thread here about Fascist moderators.....now which is it, Fascist or Communist......do either of them know the difference?? Or care?

Wish Wojtek would study hard, learn to fly, and get a waiver......then come to some of this summer's great Jet Meetings and show off his MACHO RENEGADE STUFF....always plenty of Redneks and Jerkoffs like me around for some verbal jousting......

Anyway, just being the usual devil's advocate while I try to solve my basement water problems after nearly 30 inches of rain the past month (average is about 3-4).......


Later......Tom

Wojtek......you did it again.....you said "Chartered Field ".....man, it's worse than fingernails on the blackboard....if you keep it up, I am going to have to sever our Forum relationship once an for all......there ain't no such thing.......no matter what your $250.00/hr. lawyer told you......say after me, Clubs are Chartered, Clubs are Chartered, Clubs are Chartered........The End......

Tom