I tried to post this info about all the problems I am having with the FC Mig29 and the moderator deleted my post 2 months ago.
I cant get the lock valve that was supposed to be in the kit. We did find a way to get the gear to work but it requires another channel and a speed control. The gear will stay down if the motor is constantly running at a slow speed. It requires a lot more electronics but it does work. I got an electronic sequencer from a guy in Japan that I am trying to adapt. I will let you know how it works
On the topic of Superman , does anyone know what happened to Dino DiGiorgio's 2 jets? I never saw him have radio troubles before.

Hey, Bill, it's Curtis. Did you try the Clippard catalog for a lock valve?

(post # 26)

I tried to post this info about all the problems I am having with the FC Mig29 and the moderator deleted my post 2 months ago.
I cant get the lock valve that was supposed to be in the kit. We did find a way to get the gear to work but it requires another channel and a speed control. The gear will stay down if the motor is constantly running at a slow speed. It requires a lot more electronics but it does work. I got an electronic sequencer from a guy in Japan that I am trying to adapt. I will let you know how it works
On the topic of Superman , does anyone know what happened to Dino DiGiorgio's 2 jets? I never saw him have radio troubles before.


Friday evening, shortly after take off, the Talon went into failsafe, Dean regained control , and was setting it up to land when it went into failsafe again causing it to crash. The Talon was set up with CJM's Radio gear TX and RX. Dean did not want to risk useing this gear just in case there was a problem so he had his personal TX and RX overnighted to him to use in the F-15.

Saturday after noon the F-15 again shortly after take- off went in to failsafe and control was never regained. Causeing it to auger into the ground a total loss.

Now, 2 different airframes, 2 different radios, tx and rx, only connection both were channel 26. I checked there was at least 9 other pilots useing channel 26 and asked some if experienced radio problems with a negative reply, no problems one fella got the pin from Dean right after the crashof the F-15, I ask you, is this coincidence?

Jim

No ideas, but a strangely close personal experience on channel 22. Flying on different fields, I had totally random and sporadic glitches (FM dual conversion MPX receiver). Went to PCM, and totalled my Maverick (ex Bob Parks) on the 11th flight due to failsafe (had NOTHING the 10 flights before). Since then, I went to IPD and have rock solid reception, BUT, I have flown for about 20 years in France before, in 72mhz, without any single glitch on normal FM !

There is some strange 'pollution" on some channels here.....

Bernard

I don't want to make any accusations but just tell what I saw with my own two peepers---

Jack Diaz had the pin for his lunch time demo. (BVM Rafale w/ TWO P-160's---WOW!!!) Jack and his spotter checked the frequency scanner and there was interference on his channel. Jack's spotter relayed the problem to the impound area. Jerry Caudle then got on the P.A. and made a stern announcement that if he caught the person(s) casing the problem that he was going to run them off. Actually he was so angry that I believe that he would have done more than just run the person off. As soon as he got on the P.A. the interference stopped. Jerry, as well as several other people believed that someone was screwing around. There were several other instances of the scanner showing frquencies in use but the pin was still in the impound. These were not spurious "hits" but a hard and steady signal.

After reading this you come to your own conconclusions as to if there was deliberate "frequency tampering". I don't know the fellow that lost the two aircraft but he claimed that they were on two different radios and both planes went into failsafe. As a result of this foolishness I only flew two times on Saturday, stopping after witnessing Jack's problems----- Kevin

I flew at least 30 times this past weekend with 2 different planes both on the same channel with absolutely no problems. I know Jack did have a problem but had solid radio link the rest of the weekend. I don't think there was deliberate tampering but I do believe that there may have been a few problems with frequency control. There were also a mutitude of problems with people getting the pin and keeping it for a long period of time working on their airplanes in the pits.

DR

David,

I totally agree on the frequency control problem but it was NOT the fault of the guys running the impound. Who in their mind would turn their radio on when they did not have the pin?!? (That is what happened to Jack) And as for the fellows working on their airplanes---invest in a friggin' DSU cord!!! There are some real nimrods out there---I chose to just put my plane away and save it for another day. When are you and some of the other Mississippi gang going to take a day off and come fly with me and Ed? We have access to 4500 feet and no a**holes with no regard for frequncy control!!! Kevin

Kevin.

I know nothing of Jack's case, but in the case of Dino, Lewis Patton was monitoring the frequency scanner during the flight and was getting strong sporadic signals. It was not constant as if a radio was on and left on. The signal would be strong one second then fade and come back strong again.

I did witness several radios out in the pits and down the flight line being turned on & off to make checks. Hopefully they all had the pin for their channel.

It would be truly sad to think that someone was trying to intentionally down someone else's aircraft, and I "Pity The Fool" if he is ever caught.

Kevin

I totally agree with you!!!. I grounded myself and did not take any chances. I brought my entire airplanes home. It is a shame that some people will stoop so low and cause their fellow modelers to loose $k.

Dean has been on channel 26 for almost twenty years or better and has not had a problem like this weekend before. The radio he used in the F-15 was his personal gear. the very same radio gear he used to win at Top Gun in team scale with his Mustang. Dean is very meticulous about the care of his radio. He made good and sure all was well with it before the flight of the F-15.

Being guilty of hoggin the pin in the past, after useing a DSC cord I could never see doing anything else but useing a DSC cord. It is good peice of mind.

Jim

I too would like to think that everyone would be responsible and not turn on their radio, but---. I'm glad to hear that Dino's problems could be of some other nature. I did see with my own eyes that there were a few instances where the frequency scanner showed the freqency to be in use but the pin was still in the impound. That's all I'm going to say on this matter.

On a lighter note, I had a great time and got to see a few friends that have been away from the hobby for a while. I spent WAAAAAY too much money but isn't that what usually happens when there are so many new toys to choose from?!? I wish that I could have come earlier and stayed longer. Aside from Friday the weather was great!!!! Kevin

Our club hosted the a IMAA gathering at the waxahachie airport
about 3 years ago. There was frec control but the guys were letting so many channels out we believe it started causing trouble
as for as cross modulation. We got hold of the situation and the problem of hits and crashes stopped.


? Interesting ?


David Hudson

I was not implying that the guys at the impound were the cause of the problem. I was at another event earlier this year when the frequency scanner patrol came out and a scare went through the event that there was a frequency/interference problem. There is a lot of misinterpretation of the ICOM scanners. Even very very small signals that do not affect your RC link can show up on that unit. If it is a strong signal maybe. If Lewis was monitoring the frequency while Dino was flying how would he ever tell if there was interfernce on Dinos channel??? Dino's radio was on was it not? Was a through range check done on the radio and recievr in the airplane that crashed? If the CJM radio in the airplane was suspect why was it suspect? There are too many variables not to suspect other problems.

Cross modulation? Tom Dodgen and I fly together at a lot of the events, we are on adjacent channels and we fly standing side by side often, and never have had a problem. Maybe another transmitter close to the image frequency of your reciever "might" cause a problem but it is just so unlikely.

DR

David,

Sorry if it seemed that I was implying that your remark concerning frequency control was the fault of the guys running the impound. I just made my statement to clarify that the guys in the impound did a good job. Superman has always been run professionally and this year was no different.

I,too, agree if Dino's radio was on then how could you check for interference? I was just too lazy to type in a response earlier. The remark that has me questioning Dino's TX is that the scanner showed a varying degree of signal. This could be normal, though. I once got a hold of one of my father's frequency gizmos (He was a radioman in the Navy) and as I moved the sticks the audible signal that was produced changed pitch from high to low. I wonder if these ICOM scanners react the same way as the sticks are moved or do they just put out a monotone "static" audible noise? Kevin

I don't know what scanner was being used, but I know my Icom is not narrow enough...it will read signals that are spaced inbetween our frequencies as interference.
Also, as I understand it, 3rd order intermodulation is/was a myth.
Most likely somebody turned on. Or a bad charger. That would cause two airplanes with different radios to go in.

When a PCM radio gets interference from some source, if the interfering signal is strong enough, it will go into the pre determined fail safe??? am I correct?

Now when I was at superman the only thing I witnessed was the rough landing. I was told this rough landing was due to someone turning on.

I was told that when someone turns on their radio while some one is flying a plane, the plane will go crazy and not into fail safe. and that the plane will only go into fail safe if the interference singnal is something other than a r/c radio. This makes no sense to me!

I feel that people don't know what fail safe is. I thought if you fly turbines, fail safe meant the engine would be cut or at least brought to idle.

I sometimes wonder how many times fail safe gets blamed on other issues, such as getting behind the power curve and stalling. Or maybe some unstable air that may have gone through. I think a hurrican could cause some air disturbance.

There are almost infinite reasons why our planes have problems, but claiming someone is intentionally shooting people down, just because some scanner gets a blip is sorta foolish. How about installing glitch counters??

Hopefully if someone was turning on they have had their fun.

All in all superman was a great time! I always enjoy meeting new people, even if i scratch my plane!
Dustin

Dustin,

It has been my experience that when two radios are on the receivers go into failsafe due to the receivers not getting good PCM information. The receiver is looking for a good signal and when it gets corrupted the RX will go into failsafe. The plane will go into failsafe and not fly erratically as though it were on either FM or AM modulation. I know that PCM is carried on an FM signal but the difference is the PCM info riding on the FM signal.

Not everyone programs their failsafe parameters in their radio. This is just asking for it. When the RX goes into failsafe and the radio has not been programed, theRXwill lockout and will continue on with the last command given. At the very least you should program the engine to go to idle. If the engine suddenly goes to idle then you know you have a failsafe condition. Kevin

Yes, you understand properly, or close...I don't think it has to do with the strength of the signal, it has to do with the decoding from the receiver. If, for whatever reason, the receiver is not able to decode the coding from the TX, it will go into failsafe, after a certain delay.

Now, what happens into failsafe, depends on how it has been programmed, or not. On my case I related previously about the Maverick, it's partly my fault, as too new to PCM I had NOT programmed servo positions in fail safe, and as it was a second hand receiver, I am pretty sure my servos went into whatever was programmed previously ( or not).

With my actual IPD receiver, it's so easy to do that it is done...

Bernard

On two occasions i was told that planes were lost when they supposedly went into failsafe, then the plane went "crazy". One person who told me what happened was the pilot of one crashed plane. I think unless you program your tx it will default to last position hold.

Question for ya. Now if a plane in true fail safe flies erratically how is it really in fail safe??

On an Icom scanner is the tone and signal strength from a "good" radio some how displayed? Is their a meter or a bar graph?? If the Good radio is reading full scale you really don't know how strong it really is. The signal could be twice as strong as the meter or tone shows, but when it reads an interfering signal it may read 7/8 scale thus we think it is super strong. I just don't believe all the hype with these scanners.

I am not a radio expert nor do i claim to be so guide me if I am wrong here.
Hypothetically speaking;
If someone was trying to shoot someone down. Why would they deliberately pulse their radio on even after they successfully put someone in??
I really think these little pulses the scanners see are nothing very crucial. Just like Easy said
"I don't know what scanner was being used, but I know my Icom is not narrow enough...it will read signals that are spaced in between our frequencies as interference."

What do you guys think???
Dustin

A pretty well known flyer was asked not to come to Superman, and the word on the street was he was not happy and had "observers" there to watch things.

Anybody know anything?

Vic

Depends on the nature of the interference. The RX will go into failsafe only after a given number of consecutive "bad" frames. (Frames in which the transmitted checksum does not match the checksum calculated from the received data). As soon as a single valid signal is received by the RX, the servo positions represented by that signal will be acted upon. Further bad frames following the good frame will cause a "hold" until either a good frame is received again, or the number of bad frames again exceeds the threshold for initiating failsafe.

In this way, the RX can be switching back and forth amongst the 3 states (reacting to the TX, or holding, or going into programmed failsafe) continuously if the interference is sporadic enough. This switching may generate "erratic" flight as you described. This is pretty unlikley, but is a possibility nevertheless.

Gordon

If you have something to say, just come out and say it. All this hinting and inference of sabotage makes me sick. If you think somebody did something, just say who and what. Otherwise, don't imply anything.

Guys,

I was grounded, flying in NY, this weekend (I am still upset). My Icom was lit up with a signal that varied in strength all day long. My range check was less than half of what it normally is on both of my radios (10x & 8103). No one was on my channel, no one was turning on and I have been flying at the same field with the same radio(s) for years. I think this will fall under the category of "stuff happens". The problem is how do you ever trust that channel at that field ever again?

Also, 3 order modulation does exist. The Icom lit up at my local field and I waited until the signal stopped and watched to see who was turning off. It tuned out, of the three guys who were on, none of them were on my channel. I only got a signal when all three of them were on at the same time. Once again, enough to cause a failed ground check.

Lesson learned: A scanner will save your planes, if you use it.

Mark M.

My self being new to DSC cords> I have a question. If I am right could this be the problem.
When you plug in a DSC cord you leave the tx switch off. If you turn the tx on with the module in and the DSC cord pluged in does the radio transmit? Or does the DSC cord turn that part off.
Myself not knowing. I always pull the module when using a DSC cord.
Is there any way to use a DSC cord wrongly? That may cause Radio interferance>

Thanks

In the Multiplex Profi 4000, one of the things that the DSC cord does is it shorts out two pins. Whenever these two pins are shorted, there is no RF output. I made myself a dummy plug that I can insert to prevent RF output in case I just want to power up the transmitter for programming but do not want to pull the module.