Toki 18 thread!
10-10-2002, 11:28 PM
#1
Toki 18 thread!
Since there were several threads poking around about the Toki 18 fan unit and the planes for it, namely the Pilot DJ3, the Hotbodies A7 Corsair, and the Kyosho Sabre, I thought maybe one thread to compile all the useful info in one place...
Soooo...
I went down to America's Robbery/Hobby Center today, and that discerning gentleman of great manners and taste, Marshall Winston, showed me all the various buggy engines.
There are two basic sizes of car engines, and the big block 21 sized engines will NOT fit. Too much of the engine mount on the fan unit would need to be hacked away. No dice.
So, I selected the most serious-looking 15 car engine that there was, the Fantom 15. This thing actually comes in a CAN, so it's got to be good. Reputedly will do 41,000 RPM. No typo. The car geeks there took a look at the stock Toki/HPI 18 and immediately recognized it as a mediocre car engine, good for 24K, tops.
The catch with this Fantom is it is side exhaust. I got a 180' header that I plan on cutting down, but when I fitted it all together, I realized I will have to get a second one with a 90' bend, and cut off just the elbow and work it all together with couplers to end up with the pipe going straight back where I want it to be.
The Fantom fit right on the mount, no problem, as all of the 12-15 class engines share the same mounting specs.
It comes with an enormous gold-anodized heat sink head, looks like Marge Simpson's hair. I hacksawed off half the head, then squared off the sides of what remained to get it to fit.
The fantom's carb, like most buggy carbs, has a needle valve coming out at a 45' angle, so I swapped out the carb for the one that came with the 18. They look to have the same barrel diameter, though the Fantom carb is 2-needle. Doubt if it is going to cost me much, if any, revs.
So far, so good. Engine fits, just need to work out the header configuration. In THEORY, we will have the toki fan spinning up to 40,000 revs.
This little black and gold monster set me back $200 with the header. Should have it all together soon and fitted into an airplane.
Soooo...
I went down to America's Robbery/Hobby Center today, and that discerning gentleman of great manners and taste, Marshall Winston, showed me all the various buggy engines.
There are two basic sizes of car engines, and the big block 21 sized engines will NOT fit. Too much of the engine mount on the fan unit would need to be hacked away. No dice.
So, I selected the most serious-looking 15 car engine that there was, the Fantom 15. This thing actually comes in a CAN, so it's got to be good. Reputedly will do 41,000 RPM. No typo. The car geeks there took a look at the stock Toki/HPI 18 and immediately recognized it as a mediocre car engine, good for 24K, tops.
The catch with this Fantom is it is side exhaust. I got a 180' header that I plan on cutting down, but when I fitted it all together, I realized I will have to get a second one with a 90' bend, and cut off just the elbow and work it all together with couplers to end up with the pipe going straight back where I want it to be.
The Fantom fit right on the mount, no problem, as all of the 12-15 class engines share the same mounting specs.
It comes with an enormous gold-anodized heat sink head, looks like Marge Simpson's hair. I hacksawed off half the head, then squared off the sides of what remained to get it to fit.
The fantom's carb, like most buggy carbs, has a needle valve coming out at a 45' angle, so I swapped out the carb for the one that came with the 18. They look to have the same barrel diameter, though the Fantom carb is 2-needle. Doubt if it is going to cost me much, if any, revs.
So far, so good. Engine fits, just need to work out the header configuration. In THEORY, we will have the toki fan spinning up to 40,000 revs.
This little black and gold monster set me back $200 with the header. Should have it all together soon and fitted into an airplane.
10-11-2002, 03:32 AM
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Toki 18 thread!
you're not kidding, these guys really did do some testing...
cant wait to hear how the new engine works out.
I hope that this engine can get into the powerband with the fan, if it does than it will really scream.
This O.S. .15 RX looks like a good engine, except for that weird crankshaft end. I wonder if a crank from another o.s. .15 can fit, and if the crank porting is different. If only it had a pullstart and regular crank....
cant wait to hear how the new engine works out.
I hope that this engine can get into the powerband with the fan, if it does than it will really scream.
This O.S. .15 RX looks like a good engine, except for that weird crankshaft end. I wonder if a crank from another o.s. .15 can fit, and if the crank porting is different. If only it had a pullstart and regular crank....
10-11-2002, 02:36 PM
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Toki 18 thread!
Hey Easy,
Looks great. Can't wait to see how this will work out. Make sure you post the results.
Looks like the pull starts are the way to go for these smaller DF's. Anyone have any idea how it might work on a .91?
Russ
[email protected]
Looks great. Can't wait to see how this will work out. Make sure you post the results.
Looks like the pull starts are the way to go for these smaller DF's. Anyone have any idea how it might work on a .91?
Russ
[email protected]
10-13-2002, 07:21 PM
#10
Toki 18 thread!
A pullstart on a 91? I guess you could...
The OS looks good for a conversion, just ASK if they have a pullstart version, often(like the Fantom) it is available either way. I do not think RE and pullstart is used much, but there may be some out there. What RPM are they claiming for that OS?
More news on the Toki front...
Here is Joe Beshar's TwinCat. He says it flies great, have not flown it myself...
The OS looks good for a conversion, just ASK if they have a pullstart version, often(like the Fantom) it is available either way. I do not think RE and pullstart is used much, but there may be some out there. What RPM are they claiming for that OS?
More news on the Toki front...
Here is Joe Beshar's TwinCat. He says it flies great, have not flown it myself...
10-13-2002, 07:28 PM
#13
Toki 18 thread!
I cut off that portion of the head you see with a hacksaw, then shaved down the sides of the head with a table sander. Took about half an hour.
The black Fantom carb has the needle coming out at a weird angle, so I used the toki carb...
The black Fantom carb has the needle coming out at a weird angle, so I used the toki carb...
10-13-2002, 07:30 PM
#14
Toki 18 thread!
The header was a bit of an issue, as model cars exhaust in a totally different direction from DF models.
I bought two standard car headers. The first thing I did was open up the inside of the first header, as it was definitely too small to let the Fantom breathe...
I bought two standard car headers. The first thing I did was open up the inside of the first header, as it was definitely too small to let the Fantom breathe...
10-13-2002, 07:38 PM
#16
Toki 18 thread!
And bound it all together with a silicone coupler. I think that flexible metal tubing headers exist for model cars. There are any number of different ways of skinning this cat. I have seen some model cars that had rather serpentine exhaust piping, with no ill effects.
The DJ3 is almost done, will post some pics in a day or two. I think I will put this Fantom Toki setup into that first. It will be easier to set up the pipe length on that particular plane than the others.
I might add that if you have a doggy Kyosho Sabre, I'd be reasonably sure you could get a significant power increase just by dropping in a buggy engine.
A fellow I know put just the Toki engine, not the fan itself, into a Kyosho Sabre, and had a nice increase in performance. And the Toki 18 is not a really hot engine. It's just the OS15 is even less so!
The DJ3 is almost done, will post some pics in a day or two. I think I will put this Fantom Toki setup into that first. It will be easier to set up the pipe length on that particular plane than the others.
I might add that if you have a doggy Kyosho Sabre, I'd be reasonably sure you could get a significant power increase just by dropping in a buggy engine.
A fellow I know put just the Toki engine, not the fan itself, into a Kyosho Sabre, and had a nice increase in performance. And the Toki 18 is not a really hot engine. It's just the OS15 is even less so!
10-15-2002, 05:04 AM
#17
Toki 18 thread!
I put SEVEN flights on the HotBodies A-7 today. Not bad at all! NOT fast. It seems to hit a top speed of around 55.
But a very solid flyer. Three consecutive loops from level flight, rolls, even slowish-looking snap rolls. Very steady.
Kind of Byron-like, seems geared for torque, not speed. Maybe necking down the tailpipe will change that.
At any rate, it is a HUGE improvement over the Kyosho Sabre. I like it!
Again, it's not fast. But it's not struggling, either.
I just finished the DJ3 a few hours ago, will post some pics tomorrow...
But a very solid flyer. Three consecutive loops from level flight, rolls, even slowish-looking snap rolls. Very steady.
Kind of Byron-like, seems geared for torque, not speed. Maybe necking down the tailpipe will change that.
At any rate, it is a HUGE improvement over the Kyosho Sabre. I like it!
Again, it's not fast. But it's not struggling, either.
I just finished the DJ3 a few hours ago, will post some pics tomorrow...
10-15-2002, 06:11 AM
#18
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Toki 18 thread!
Easytiger,
Your report on the A7 is that compared to a stock Kyosho F86?
Just asking, you know my F86 did over 62 mph in Michigan, I need to recheck it now with my new changes.
Glad to hear a good report, maybe I will get it back off the shelf and work on the motor some more before the snow flys.
On the Big F15, the two engines are in and pipes are mounted, the wings and tails are hinged, now comes mounting the servos and running all those wires. I will paint it after we test fly it. I've got to finish this project before I move on the Mig 15 which is almost done too. My shop is really getting crowed.
Your report on the A7 is that compared to a stock Kyosho F86?
Just asking, you know my F86 did over 62 mph in Michigan, I need to recheck it now with my new changes.
Glad to hear a good report, maybe I will get it back off the shelf and work on the motor some more before the snow flys.
On the Big F15, the two engines are in and pipes are mounted, the wings and tails are hinged, now comes mounting the servos and running all those wires. I will paint it after we test fly it. I've got to finish this project before I move on the Mig 15 which is almost done too. My shop is really getting crowed.
10-15-2002, 12:05 PM
#19
Toki 18 thread!
Yes, a definite improvement over the stock Sabre. Night and day.
Don't know why your A7 won't fly, that's weird! Maybe you just got a bad engine. I think you must have gotten a particularly GOOD engine on your Sabre! Or maybe it just needs more time on it? Mine seemed to pick up a little speed as it got more time on it, but the first flight, after only minor, sloppy, two tanks of break-in, flew fine.
If you think you have a lemon, let me know, I have a spare Toki engine(no fan) you can have. You could also put just the engine into your Sabre, a friend of mine did that and got a nice boost. Just the engine change requires very little work. You will have to find a header, though, as I am shy one header. Standard car headers will fit.
Some more stuff on the A7:
I did not use flaperons. No need.
It needs some throttle for landing, otherwise it will bounce like a Kangaroo on cheap struts.
Doubt if it will get off of grass with those cheap wheels.
Stock control throws were perfect.
Duration is a bit short for my tastes. Comes with a four ounce tank, good for a five minute flight with reserve for a go-around or two. I could fit a larger tank.
There is a slight trim change as the fuel, ahead of the CG, burns off.
It balanced with zero ballast, right on the money.
It would be a great way to get your feet wet in jets without spending an arm or a leg or a lot of time.
It is still a jet, and would be a lousy second airplane.
The stall is a non-event.
Retracts are a possibility, though you would either need to find twist and turn retracts, which I do not think exist in this size, or use very small wheels, to keep the wheels from protruding into the ducting. I think retracts would up the speed a bunch. The plane seems to hit an aerodynamic wall.
55 mph is a total guess on my part. The only other jet flyer witness was Vinnyjet, maybe he can chime in with his impressions.
It's FUN.
It's RELIABLE. Seven flights, not a hiccup from the engine, zero maintainance.
I think if you swapped out the Toki engine for a hotter one, things would get even better.
Again. It's not fast!
Don't know why your A7 won't fly, that's weird! Maybe you just got a bad engine. I think you must have gotten a particularly GOOD engine on your Sabre! Or maybe it just needs more time on it? Mine seemed to pick up a little speed as it got more time on it, but the first flight, after only minor, sloppy, two tanks of break-in, flew fine.
If you think you have a lemon, let me know, I have a spare Toki engine(no fan) you can have. You could also put just the engine into your Sabre, a friend of mine did that and got a nice boost. Just the engine change requires very little work. You will have to find a header, though, as I am shy one header. Standard car headers will fit.
Some more stuff on the A7:
I did not use flaperons. No need.
It needs some throttle for landing, otherwise it will bounce like a Kangaroo on cheap struts.
Doubt if it will get off of grass with those cheap wheels.
Stock control throws were perfect.
Duration is a bit short for my tastes. Comes with a four ounce tank, good for a five minute flight with reserve for a go-around or two. I could fit a larger tank.
There is a slight trim change as the fuel, ahead of the CG, burns off.
It balanced with zero ballast, right on the money.
It would be a great way to get your feet wet in jets without spending an arm or a leg or a lot of time.
It is still a jet, and would be a lousy second airplane.
The stall is a non-event.
Retracts are a possibility, though you would either need to find twist and turn retracts, which I do not think exist in this size, or use very small wheels, to keep the wheels from protruding into the ducting. I think retracts would up the speed a bunch. The plane seems to hit an aerodynamic wall.
55 mph is a total guess on my part. The only other jet flyer witness was Vinnyjet, maybe he can chime in with his impressions.
It's FUN.
It's RELIABLE. Seven flights, not a hiccup from the engine, zero maintainance.
I think if you swapped out the Toki engine for a hotter one, things would get even better.
Again. It's not fast!
10-16-2002, 12:03 AM
#21
Toki 18 thread!
Here's the DJ3, the pride of Swiss Naval Aviation!
I had one short flight on her today, before I got wise and realized it was almost completely dark outside, and the plane was nearly invisible...
It took off with no problems, looks like a winner, but I won't file a real flight report until I get a real flight on her.
I am using the Fantom 15 setup, but it won't hold a needle setting just yet, I have only about 30 minutes of run time on it, it needs substantial break-in time.
I forgot to mark the spinner, so I could not tach it...
It's a work in progress, both the engine and the plane.
Some notes about the DJ3...
Somewhat complicated model, has 150 or so laser cut balsa parts.
Takes SEVEN miniservos. Not micros, and not full size. Why seven? Two for the ailerons, and TWO retract servos, a seperate one for the nosegear.
Has OK brand (that's the other name for Pilot) mechanical retracts. I prefer air. For sure. Maybe those mini springairs.
The nosegear retracts, but is not steerable. Bizarre, I know. And of course, there is absolutely zero ground handling because of it. I don't like that. You have to put the plane on the ground pointing into the wind and take off.
More after dinner...
I had one short flight on her today, before I got wise and realized it was almost completely dark outside, and the plane was nearly invisible...
It took off with no problems, looks like a winner, but I won't file a real flight report until I get a real flight on her.
I am using the Fantom 15 setup, but it won't hold a needle setting just yet, I have only about 30 minutes of run time on it, it needs substantial break-in time.
I forgot to mark the spinner, so I could not tach it...
It's a work in progress, both the engine and the plane.
Some notes about the DJ3...
Somewhat complicated model, has 150 or so laser cut balsa parts.
Takes SEVEN miniservos. Not micros, and not full size. Why seven? Two for the ailerons, and TWO retract servos, a seperate one for the nosegear.
Has OK brand (that's the other name for Pilot) mechanical retracts. I prefer air. For sure. Maybe those mini springairs.
The nosegear retracts, but is not steerable. Bizarre, I know. And of course, there is absolutely zero ground handling because of it. I don't like that. You have to put the plane on the ground pointing into the wind and take off.
More after dinner...
10-16-2002, 12:06 AM
#23
Toki 18 thread!
The quality of the kit is superb. It's not for the first time builder, though, and you can't just grab the glue and whack away at it...the methods of construction are quite unique, and you have to follow the photo illustrated directions on the plan carefully...
10-16-2002, 12:57 AM
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Toki 18 thread!
Looks good, after you get the engine sorted out you'll have to stick the stock toki back in there and try it to see the difference.
P.S. Your jet kit is just about ready, will PM you when I ship it.
P.S. Your jet kit is just about ready, will PM you when I ship it.