I am wondering about the slow speed characteristics of this plane.....Does it slow down to a respectable approach and landing speed ( I know it's not a trainer) while still maintaining decent stability, or does it rock alot and get "tippy" when slow.....Thanks....

Keeping power on during the approach is the key to landing the BVM F-4. Nothing less than 1/2 to 3/4 in the final turn and mostly 3/4. Once you are rolled out on final, over the runway and about 10' or so, you can reduce power (assuming you are not slow). If flown this way the plane is solid and predictable and you can drive it right on to the runway (scale), or you can hold it off (close to the ground) for a smoother touchdown.

Here is how you tell if you are getting too slow; if the nose begins to rise as you attempt to maintain a normal glidepath and the ailerons quickly begin to loose effectiveness, you're too slow. If not corrected immediately, the plane will wallow off heading, plop onto the runway in a nose high attitude and most likely run off the side. The correct response is max power, reduce AOA (if able) and try to regain flying speed/control.

The above scenario has only happened to me a few times in nearly 200 landings but it is usually unexpected. As a result, I tend to fly my approaches a little fast and take advantage of whatever runway length is available.

Craig

Do you (or anybody else) have airfoil data for the BVM F-4? A picture auf the wing root would be sufficient, also. Just want to know, as i'll be starting a large F-4 project next year and want to go all scale.
Thanks a bunch
Hank

I have one of these babies and they fly great. The airfoil at the root is mostly symetrical. I haven't had mine apart in years so I can't give you the exact shape. It slows down nicely and there are no nasty stall characteristics. It will get cocked up nicely in the pattern (slow) but requires significant power correction when slow.

Keep it light if possible. It can handle heavy weights but the lighter the better.
Sorry about UAL. We are all going down the toilet.

Enjoy!

Craig, I too have a BVM F-4E and am curious as well if its best to flair the "Rhino" upon touchdown or should I let it land on all three gear? It seems that most of the F-4 sort of "plop" to the ground. As you know ........if you try to land a Super Bandit on all three it will bobble. You have to sort of flair before touchdown. (this probably wont be much like a Bandit right?) I also am very interested in attaching a drag chute. Is this hard to do? I have read over my manual to see how its done and seems kinda complicated. Thanks -Patrick

Patrick,
You would have to be pretty fast to land on all three gear and you don't want to do that. The "plop" landings you have seen almost certainly touched down on the mains first (i.e the nose was up at the point of touchdown), quickly followed by the nose gear. But to answer your question, the F-4 has almost none of the Bandit "kangaroo hop" tendency if you should happen to land a little hard and/or fast. This is why the minimum flare method works well with the F-4. However, having been an Air Force pilot (not Navy), my instincts are always to flare for a smooth landing. You need to be properly positioned (i.e. close to the runway) but you can hold the F-4 off as long as you have stab authority and I have even touched down with full Up stab.

I have never installed a drag chute but I agree it looks a little complicated as well as a tight fit. I know a few guys use them and maybe they can comment.

Craig

Craig, I also received my wing tanks and pylons yesterday from BVM. Seems like the pylons are gonna be some work. Any tips on doin these babys? Do I need to glass them or anything? Do you guys use the AIM 7 missiles on your F-4s? Looks neat with them on. I will have it at Forida Jets so I may ask for your help. Thanks - Patrick

The chute is not a diffucult installation. John Redman makes a nice chute "kit" that works very reliably and is easy to install and rig. As far as landing the F-4 goes once you figure it out it is one of the most predictable landing airplanes out there. I definetly would not try a full stall landing with it but you can actually drag it in pretty slow. Nose up, in the power and you can spot land it every time. I don't know exactly how many flights I have on mine but its a bunch.

David, Sweet! Sounds like this jet will be a keeper. Thats funny cause I got this jet from Uncle Redman! Mine is done in the Camo scheme similar to yours. Are they hard to see? -Patrick

The F-4 is one of a kind. I think it’s better to set up your approach angle and speed on down wind and control altitude with power all the way to touch down... Drag chutes are sweet even when you hit the switch to soon as I did here. I just added power (to full) and she touched down sweet..Made for a cool pic..

That chute looks awesome. Where can you get it, and how much is it?
Cheers
Hank

I have the chutes and they are $200 each shipped.

Patrick, I agree the F-4 looks good loaded up with missles. The fuselage mounted Sparrows are relativey easy, just a screw through the missle into some hardwood blocks inside the fus. The pylons are a different story which I describe as similar to building 4 little airplanes. I fiberglassed mine for strength and finish. One of the challenges is getting the pylons/tanks perfectly parallel to the fus centerline and you just need to measure carefully.

Joe Grice showed me this attach method for the tanks...brass tubes glued to the tanks that extend into brass tubes in the pylons and secured with 2-56 bolts. Very clean and secure.

Craig, Thanks for the great info. That seems to be a good way to mount those Wing tanks. I will try that. I guess you could do them the conventional way to where you mount them through the aluminum tubes inside the wing tanks right? Do you use a TITAN for yours? I will be using one for mine.

Phil, Do the chutes some complete with spring loaded hardware to deploy the chute? If so I would like to buy one. Tell me where to send the money or do you want C.C? I will post some pictures here shortly. Thanks guys! -Patrick

Patrick, Yes, you can mount the wing tanks through an aluminum tube but I have found that method leaves the tanks a little wobbly. My brass tubes run all the way through the tank and are glued top and bottom for more rigidity. Either way works.

I have a Netherlands Pegasus HP in my F-4 which gives me great vertical. The Titan will do likewise and is an excellent match.

Hope to see you at FL Jets.....Craig

Justin Sands also makes a very scale drag chute in yellow or white. The one for the F-100 really looks *****in'! It's worth the effort on either jet.

I had one of John's first chutes in mine, it worked better than the one I made (I tried to make mine a break away, so that an in flight release would cause it to off) I guess Phil proved that may have not been as dangerous as I was worried about!

Anyway, the door release mechanism is pretty tricky, just some fine hand work. And the spring was hard to find, but if John is doing the kit the same way he used to, you get the tube and the spring with the chute. Worth it! Also, I could not taxi with mine, more power just caused the chute to pull harder the other way! If you have the channels a chute release would be very cool.

I had a JetCat P-160 in mine, incredible performance, I personally had not seen one with that much performance (speed and vertical). It used the RAM 1000 bypass from BVM and the hydroformed pipe. It ran MUCH better than the original Walti pipe. I would STRONGLY suggest the hydroformed BV pipe. And BTW, it still burned through after 65 flights, so keep a close eye on the pipe.

I finally got mine dialed in after I moved the CG way back, probabaly an 1/8 behind the plans. THis and I reduced the high expo I usually use on elevator. This made the flare infinitely better. I fought that thing for 50 flights before I got the CG back far enough. I lost mine on a failsafe safe after 65 flights. Still sick about it. I attribute it to karma, I had seriously considered selling it (a ton of money for those back then) and that is what got me. I never sell them.

You have a long nose version right? This is the one Redman built? If so you got a superlative model.

Ill second the Sands Chute, here is his on the topgun F100

I have one of Justine ringed chutes in my F-100 and it is sweet. Give him a call. The nice thing about a ringed chute it will take up less space in the tube which is a tight fit to begin with.

Sorry all I have are the ringed chutes I made the other parts per the F-4 plans. I am sure you will be happy with one of Justins chutes as well. I have 10 ringed chutes on hand you can reach me at 225-572-3723.

Phil, I will call you this week and order one. Do you take food stamps? [sm=bananahead.gif] Thanks - Patrick

No but I do take FEMA cards

I had the BVM chute tube setup in my first F-4 it worked OK but Redman's design in my current airplane is flawless. The attachment point for the chute is right on the chute tube and the chute tube is tied into the rear stab crutch very strong and as a bonus the way I setup the chute mechanism I can pickle the chute on taxi back to the pits. I have only had it fail to deploy a couple of times mostly due to my chute packing. A little baby powder helps and gives you the extra little "poof" for dramatic effect. Like Phil mentioned I slow mine down on the downwind and through the turn on base and final. By final approach I am at my landing speed with the nose up and pwer it to the runway.


DR

How effective is the drag chute at slowing the aircraft down?

Mike Danchak

I have another question for Craig, Phil or David................Can I use one 8611A on the stabilator or should I use the recommmended 8411s ganged together per BVM specs? Has anyone done this yet? Right now I have 2721s on the stabilator but will replace them with digital. Thanks -Patrick