Hi,

I know this subject has cropped up now and again so please excuse me for bringing the subject once again.
My RAM is the full autostart version. When I bought this engine it ran on the bench without any trouble. It ran quite well and once a few cycles were made then I decided to store it until I finished the plane. Due to work commitments I took a few more months to complete it. Prior to installing the engine in the plane I ran it again to make sure everything was ok. Somehow ( and still a mystery to me) the gas solenoid was shortened out and so did not run. The ECU was eventually sent to Bob to have it repaired and upgraded to C02C version. Infact I also bought an extra ECU. However, the engine still did not run since I was getting "IGN SENSOR LOW" (on two ECUs). So, the fault now lay in the engine rather than the ECU. I was told that the rpm sensor needed degauzing by running a magnet over the front cover in a circular motion. This I did with very little success, infact, the engine still did not start. In the circumstance I thought of replacing the rpmsensor and this I did but I was still getting the same error. So next to be replaced was the spinner nut and this I replaced today but again with the same error. My starter motor is the original motor.
I am sure that those acquanted with this type of engine know that unless one has enough rpm (minimum of 250 when the rpm is at abt 5k when the air button is pressed) then ignition will not be on. When I run the engine, I can smell gas indicating that the gas solenoid is working but there is still not ignition. Glowplug is ok but at the current status is not being lit by the ECU.

To be honest, i am still not acquanted with PPW and START PW functions and their use. I mean the applicable values for the engine. As I said, prior to storing everything was spot on and engine started without degauzing, errors etc.

What I wish to know from you guys is whether anybody has had this kind of problem and how it was solved. I know what the obvious answer would be..... Carlos.... but before deciding in sending it half way round the world with the expense involved I would like to extinguish all possibilities prior to deciding whether to send it or else... a paper weight. The engine is really low time and I believe that it has less than 15 ignition cycles.

At the moment I have removed the rpm sensor and replacing it with its original one, since the fault is common to both sensors as I am still getting the error "IGN SENSOR LOW". Now that the sensor is removed would the degauzing procedure still be effective if I ran the magnet over the sensor?

Any help?

Thanks

Regards

Reuben

Try this: if you can smell the gas, then go ahead and use a propane torch to light the gas at the exhaust on a test bench. It will not solve your starting issues, but at least you can see if it runs.

Hi Reuben. You have not stated what the number in the lower left corner of the display reads. The 250 level is the minimum amplitude of the rpm sensor signal. The C03/T03 software runs the engine up to 5K RPM the first time without igniting to make sure the sensor is putting a good signal out before trying to start the engine. What reading do you get with the rpm at about 5K RPM??. Report back please. You should get a reading of at least 250 with the 1000 and even greater with the 500 unless you have a marginal magnet in the nut or a marginal sensor. I need to know what the sensol level reading is and I may have a way of increasung the gain of the sensor amplifier in the ECU. I have never had to do that in the past. Later. Bob.

Reuben,
It is highly unlikely that both rpm sensors are bad. Bob can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you could also fail the sensor check if you are not achieving 5K rpm. When you hit the AIR button or initiate the start sequence is the engine getting up to 5K rpm?

If you are not getting to 5K I can think of 3 possible causes:
- Check to see that your ECU battery is good and fully charged.
- If you hear a screeching or growling sound when the starter is engaged the o-ring is slipping or
worn. Replace the o-ring and/or put some CA in the o-ring grove to keep it from slipping.
- Replace the starter motor. It takes a speed 300 motor and is not hard to replace yourself if
you have the later level front cover.

Joe

.guys call Corlos formely worked on ram
he knonws ram1000 very well give me call

good luck

AHMET helvacioglu

If thr sensor signal low error is being displayed, the ecu has sucessfully read 5K rpm during the first runup but the sensor signal level is lower than 250. If the ecu did not see 5Krpm there would be a different error such as no rpm error or low rpm error. Again - Reuben would you please tell me what the sensor signal level in the lower left corner of the screen reads when you press the "AIR" button and the rpm is up close to 5K rpm. Thank You. Bob

"Try this: if you can smell the gas, then go ahead and use a propane torch to light the gas at the exhaust on a test bench. It will not solve your starting issues, but at least you can see if it runs. "

Hi Mark. You can not start the engine if you fail the sensor signal low test even with a torch. Bob.

OK, got ya Bob.

Reuben, forget the propane. Try anti-matter. That should get just about anything going (well, at least in our universe!).

If i can get Reuben to come back and give me the reading I asked for I believe I can solve his problem. Bob

" I was told that the rpm sensor needed degauzing by running a magnet over the front cover in a circular motion. "

Hi Reuben again. I just noticed this comment in your post. You need to move the magnet in a LINEAR motion back and forth across the area where the sensor is VERY QUICKLY and do not stop the motion right at the sensor area but at the end of your liniar motions. If you do not know where the sensor is, you need to continue this quick liniar motion across the front cover while rotating the engine. This means do this liniar quick travel at many diameter angles all around the cover. I hope this explanation is clear. Later. Bob.

Thanks for the replies guys. I will be doing what said in the afternoon. I believe the sensors are working ok because they were replaced. Bob did a very good job in fixing the ECU etc. Yes the o-ring could be slipping and I will do a bit of CA as you said to hold it in place for the time being.
I will do the tests as you asked in the afternoon and will revert back to the list.
For now thank you all especially Bob for coming back to my rescue!

If the matter persists I will have no option but send it to Carlos. For the time being I wish to see what I can do before I decide. Again thanks to everyone

Reuben

Ok Results.

1. Removed the sensor and went over it with a strong magnet for about 15 minutes or more.
Refinstalled it again in engine.
2. Cleaned o-ring and spinner nut
2. Applied CA to the O-ring grove.
3. Assembled everything again.
4. Removed battery from charger. Battery fully charged
5. Hooked everything together and go.
6. At first after I pressed air I got 234 signal level at abt 5k
7. During a normal start up operation I noticed 2 things. Screetching sound and engine
accelarates to around 004.1 (top left hand reading on main menu) and then stops.
8. Removed front cover again and looked at the starter motor. Pressed "AIR" button again
applying a bit of finger pressure on the starter. Same screetching sound. Looks like the motor
was slow on the starting mode coupled with some slippage.
9. Applied CA again, a bit of magnetic work and assembled everything.
10. Meanwhile, I recharged battery. Again fully charged and set to go.
11. Pressed AIR button and signal reading read 180 at abt 5K. I did this a couple of times and
reading never went over 200.
12. I noticed that gas solenoid was working perfectly as I could smell gas coming out.

I never started the engine with an open fire since if I did not have enough rpm to spool up it would have made it worse on the bearings as no fuel would have gone in to oil the bearings. So I would have only had gas fire coming out of the engine without adequate rpm to spool the engine up. Maybe I am mistaken but that was the train of thought of why I did not opt for that recommendation.

These were the results.

Any comments please?

Thanks

Reuben

Try pulling out the GLOW PLUG element as much as possible. Make sure your starter Assembly use the new speed 500 motor. Any slipping during startup will cause a fail start.

Remember the lower the ecu GLOW PLUG (48) setting the brighter the plug glows. Try pressing the air button to get the max RPM to jump start the engine then hit the start button. Some time its best the remove the glow plug from the engine then connect the plug wires to the glow plug then try to start the engine. This give you an idea how to adjust the plug voltage

Hi,
Thanks for your mail. I did pull the glow plug and it did not glow,not because the plug was open but because the signal sensor is failing (In my opinion the rpm sensor might not be bad). Somehow it is not achieving the required signal to continue the process. Demagnetising the rpm sensor did help but not that much. Infact when I tried it this afternoon it first read 234 and then it did not achieve 200 at abt 5k rpm.
I also did as you mentioned, i.e. pressed RUN button after pressing the AIR start one but with negative result. It did not run.
Unfortunately I do not have the 500 motor but only have the original motor that came with it when I forst bought it. I presume it is the 300 motor. Would that be the Graupner 300 motor. I suppose the 500 motor will not fit in the 300 capsule. I suppose the whole front end would need to be replaced to go from 300 to 500...right?

Reuben

Hi Reuben. Thank you for the reading. You are telling me that the reading is not getting to 250 when the rpm is at 5Krpm. This is all I needed to know. No mater what other start motor or o-ring problems there may be, the ecu will never try to start the engine after this first sensor test if the reading is not at least 250. I will repeat again - The ecu is not getting enough signal from the sensor which could be caused by the sensor or the magnet . The sensor or the magnet is marginal. You are not getting quite enough signal. The reason you smell gas is that I do a short purge of the gas solenoid during the first runup test to get rid of liquid in the lines from re-filling. The ignition does not start until after this first runup test and the rpm has read 5k rpm and the sensor signal level is at least 250. If these tests fail the, the ecu will not proceed with the start up sequence with gas and glow power and will display the no rpm error, low rpm error, or sensor low error. Any error associated with the conditions that keep you from start up such as battery low, plug open, set throttle low etc are displayed on the main screen either in the receiver mode or the manual mode. The errors that occur during startup or running after the start sequence is started wil be displayed in the third main menu where you get at the teach and parms menues.

I can fix the problem by changing two resistors in the ecu to increase the gain of the sensor amplifier if you send me your ecu's. Later. Bob.

Ok Bob thanks for your explanation. Please check your mail. Again thanks

Reuben