Ben, if you break the nose off of your bobcat, do you place new fiberglass and repair it? Or do you buy a new fuse? And when you sell it, it does not now contain 100% factory material, does it.

Jetjoe copied the wren, and sold a bunch through advertisement on this site. If I take a wren apart, and buy parts, cast stuff off their stuff. It's all perfectly fine. If I was copying a JHH Hawk, only person with any questions would be easy

LOL, I always find it hysterical how everything is fine when you're doing something in the garage, holding a speed event, etc. You mention it on RCU and this thread has 450 hits now in the first hour. Man, I find this hysterical...............

Sean

I’m not trying to judge anybody because �the evils that men do leaves after them�.

I could understand it if somebody that I consider a destitute is doing something like this but not somebody of your caliber.

AFAIC, it stinks to high heavens!

I’m out of here……..

Only maybe all the hits aren't for YOU?

Want to take a wild-azzed guess at how many people are clicking onto the "contact our factory!" link on the site I showed? Betcha they sell a bunch of these...

Ben, don't leave, I'm putting a naked chick on this page in a few minutes to blow the thread up WIll definately need some heavy moderation

Appreciate the caliber statement, this project isn't meant to be slanderous in anyway. It's not for any financial gain at all. I already bought the BVM parts. He got my money. If I call today and say I want to buy a bobcat xl, I can't get one.

So what's a brother to do?

Thanks sean. I think this whole thing is rediculous. I am going to clone an F-16, for myself, and noone else. If i bust up a jet, i make an ew one. I am a firm believer that if i can build it, why not. I dont think i should have to pay another 2 g's on a jet i already had. Why is there so much debate over this. GOOD ON YA SEAN AND WHOMEVER ELSE CAN, at least you have the skills to do it.

Ben...treachery? Are you for real....
Sean has 2.5 Bobcats and wants to make it three...Pops out a mold to complete the trio. I fail to see the problem...

Like I said...you guys may have no idea what others are really thinking about this. You have it all okay in YOUR minds, but know that others may feel VERY differently.
Me, I'm stayin' outta that!

How do you like that A-4? Blue Angels, or Agressor scheme?

this is just an observation, and is in know way an attack on the cloning here.

I see both sides of this. a designer spends lets say 200k to develop his new jet. he
then starts selling them for 2-3k. you buy one, and lose it. you have to plunk down
another 2-3k. that hurts, even if you can afford it, it still is a loss. you buy another,
and get smart and splash it (and I know currently right now there are at least 4-5
warbirds, that I know of being splashed).

so, you splash the new jet for yourself. you fit it with all the equipement, go out and fly
and get shot down. well fortunatley, you have molds, and can make another at a
considerable cost savings. now, you are helping yourself save money, but, you have
also now taken a possible sale away from the original designer because your built your
own from you molds of his kit. this is great, so you go out and fly it, and word gets out
that you molded it. hey, remember the Internet and rumors. so now, in some cases
( I know a couple) you start selling them, because you now can start turning some coin
back in your pocket.

so both sides of this is very argumentative. the designer and his time spent, is now lost
for what one does to splash his product. and the splasher is now saving so he doesnt have
to pay top dollar anymore.

I am in the Architectural business. have been designer custom homes for 17 years. Copyright
infringement with plans is out of control. Out here in California, a copyrgith infringement case
is a Federal offence with a maximum suit of 100,000.00. I have seen many in my time. I have
been accused of this, and it aint pretty to stare a 100k lawsuit in the face. when the dust settled,
I was in the right, as I had not stolen anything.

Intelectural property is a tough one. I have also had to sue someone, and won out of court
as they knew if we took it to federal court, they would have payed dearly. they stole my plans
that I had designed for a builder. they copied them verbatum. I made 10k in one week from this
out of court. I have also in the past been approached by certain builders, and homeowners wanting
to use my plans. I have allowed this by simply having a notorized letter to allow them to use
the plans, and build the house one time. I also got payed a fee for this.

basically, copyrights, splashing, or whatever is always going to be around, and will never
stop. I think if someone is to splash a kit, they need to keep it to themselves, and would then
probably be OK, from any problems, or lawsuits. In Architectural copyrighting, or plans, one
can take my plans, or someone elses plans, and change them by 25%, and they now become
the new persons plan. But it is also up to a jury, if it goes that far, to be able to determine that
they still either resemble the original plan or not.

I am currently making some scale accesories for a couple of the Ziroli warbirds. this is really
a no-brainer to do. But I called Nick Jr., and asked if it would be OK for me to do this, and sell
these to compliment his kits. He had no problem with this. Calling him and asking if I can copy
his stuka into a glass kit, may be a problem.

this is interesting conversation to me. I hope it continues here, and doesnt get out of hand.

Todd

“To whom much is given, much is expected�. Sean is not a destitute; he can afford to buy 100 BC’s today if he wants.

And before any of you guys will start mouthing off that I am a BV sidekick, my last business transaction with BV was for a repair of my BC nose gear of which I received a full bill for(around $125.00). I paid the man his money and did not get any discount nor was I expecting any.

Again if you have $3.00 bills and one of them happens to have 80% of it missing. Are you going to KINKOS and splash the missing part from the good one and use as a legal tender? It is your money and you worked hard for it. What is the difference?

Sean, where's the naked chick? Can you mold me one, 36-24-36 please.
Chris

Why do you guys continue to feed the troll?

Todd, well said, luckily I'm fortunate enough that I would never need any money for what I have built here.

On the flip side, I'm not costing the orginal designer a sale. If I ask him to sell me a bobcat xl, he won't sell me one.

No sale lost.

I understand copyright infringement. In a way, MP3 file sharing is is a "splash". How many videos are on this site with MP3 files embedded in them? It's countless.

You are correct, right, wrong or indifferent, copying is rampant.

There are tribute films all over the net using copyrighted material of George Lucas. Look up "star wars kid" in google. Or look up star wars tribute films.

You can use his copyrighted material all you want, you can't make a penny.

Some guy spent 20 thousand making a star wars tribute film with his own money, had Jedi, troopers, etc in it. Not touchable in court unless he tries to sell it.

I am equally protected I believe.

Ben federal law specific to currency. You can copy it all you want, it is not illegal to copy currency, it is illegal to try to compensate someone with fake currency.

It would be illegal to sell a splash as an original. It would be marginally immoral to sell someone a kingcat with a cloned canopy.

Where do you draw the line? I have BVM gear in my cloned fuse on a bvm centersection with one boom original and one cloned boom.

I have a bv retract mechnism witha robart strut sitting on a glennis nose wheel.

Please, where is the line in all of that? Is it a bobcat? I don't know...........

thanks Sean, now that you mention it, I never really thought about
MP3 stuff, videos, tribute this, tribute that. its rampat, its out there.
and with the Internet, it will continue to do so.

I also see what you are saying about the splash of yours. it makes sense.

now, about the neked chick. when I was at Bomber Field in Sept of 04,
I saw plenty of hot Texas women, look forward to September this year [8D]

I think this is all crazy Sean will never sell this jet for profit this is nothing more than a hobby that the man is having fun building a jet and trying to share his progress with others. One thing i know about Sean he is a man of his word.

This is all about having fun not war

Actually, you had it right the first time, and the rest is just your classic internet lawyering and rationalization that has absolutely no basis in reality or the law. Amazing what you can read on the internet about intellectual property rights and such...a lot of incredible mistruths!


But anyway...skip the Seancat.

What you do think about the planes in the original post?

Sounds like this EASYTIGER is trying to get in the good books of the BV clan, and get himself some free S#IT. Rediculous, man give it up, and learn how to make molds so we can have some friggin peace.

Riiiight!

I'm definitely a BVM suckup! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Can I have my free Ultra Bandit because I said something nice about Bob on the internet now?

Hey, panther! Here's a dollar. Go buy yourself a clue and a new sammich!

actually after reading my second post ET, I should have, or meant to have said I understand Sean's
side of the story. right or wrong, everyone has an opinion. I am not going to bash on him because he
wants to splash a kit. and please dont tell me how I am doing classic Internet laywering or rationalizing
with my post, because I said something that made it looked like Sean made me change my mind. You dont
know me, so leave it at that.

I know what I mean, and what is right or wrong as far as what I do in my profession.

as to the original question about those terrible looking kits on the site you posted, they do look alot
like kits already made. you can definatley see the similarities. the half assed looking copy of a
DV8R is terrible, but I can see why they changed it to make it look different.

This picture is public information on a furm site. It is a copy of a popular retract set, and there are cad files available for it if you work hard enough to get them. Lawerizing aside, you can find most anything on the net.

EASY, Listen, have you ever gone back over the months of forums and checked out the bickering between people. Your screenname appears on almost all of them. Why do you like to start so much crap on here. Nobody cares about you or your opinions on "CLONING", or why its bad juju. In fact, im sure most people cant stand to see your name on one of their posts, simply because you seem to know all and everything on anything. Listen, you dont have to reply, because i know you want the last word, ive been through the past posts. Just give it a rest man, go fly some planes, and try to refrain from giving your opinion on all topics, nobody wants to hear it.

would it be imoral , dishonest , or illegal if we were to trade for a complete bobcat xl that is out of production?

NO ONE GETS BV FOR FREE!