I have to agree with Johnny & George. I am an owner of 2 Rams, 750P and a 500, never a flameout (knock on my head). I have seen guys have problems with OS, Saito, K&B, Brison, 3W, DA, BME, JC, the list goes on. Alot of problems come down to installation, setup, or operator error. If you see someone having problems, try to lend a hand and work them through the problems instead of telling them what equipment might be better.
Anthony Greco
Team JR

Not sure what you guys are talking about with trashing??, I have a jetcat and I am a Christian, but I also am trying to figure out if I should buy 2 used RAMs or not??

I have been to enough events and have read and heard enough hear to know that there are good RAMs and not so good ones.

After reading about the new FTiana project, I thought maybe I could get the new parts he is making to fix up the RAMS and use them on these cheep used RAMS and maybe save some money. That was the purpose of my message. Maybe I will adress this to Carlos on another thread and he can explain parts and such.

As for people like TonyF he has been a great contributor in this part of the hobby. When he worked for RAM he was loyal as any employee should be, he helped many people and I think he still does from what I hear. I think he told my buddy he got like 1000 turbine flights in just a couple of years, so when he helps with RAM problems I think he knows what he is talking about? Just my thoughts..

Mark

Hi Mark,

My reply was not directed to you, you havent said anything that would insult anyone in this thread. I understanad your concern when it comes on purchasing a turbine at a low price. I'll be very happy to assist you in taking such turbines to Carlos so he can run them since we're in the same town 30 minutes away and put your mind at ease if you're concerned about those engines not being in working order.

Also with Frank Tiano being able to sell the new ones I really dont think he would have a problem running or checking these engines out for you.
If Those turbines that you're buying are running nice and sound there's really no need to send them anywhere to get them upgraded unless they are the air start versions than it would be worth sending them to get the upgrade to full auto start.

This has nothing to do with religion please dont think that, its just that its getting so old some of these guys bashing everything that they dont use its just plain stupid and that's when you really and truly see who they really are.


Please Mark if there's anything I can do for you please dont hesitate to call me or e-mail me after all, this is a great hobby and we should all no matter what you use should help eachother out instead of enjoying others problems.

Maybe I can assist you with a little bit of my knowledge on RAMS, Its not much but I've been around them now for almost 4 yrs and one thing I can assure you is I fly the living hell out of my RAMS and have encountered my own issues with them but nothing that doesnt have a solution.

My number is ( 954) 263-6990 and e-mail [email protected]


Regards......... Johnny Hernandez

Mark,

Perhaps I can be of some help concerning your questions concerning adapting some of our T series parts to old RAM engines. We will not be attempting to do that, and I am not even certain that all of the newly manufactured parts are perfectly interchangeable with some of the older units. Those engines went through many design changes and keeping track of what is what, is not in our program. However, Carlos Villarreal at RTI in Miami can, and will, take any RAM unit and turn it into a like new unit for a justifiable fee. We suggest that you and anyone else needing service or parts on the RAM series of engines contact him at 786-556-3243. So far, his work has been outstanding. If there is anything else we can be of help with, please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks,
Frank Tiano
FTE Turbine Works

Johnny,

You didn`t say in the post but you are personel friends with Rei and did lots of "test" flying for him in the past. You are by no means "just" and satisfied Ram customer.

Vin...

Obviously there are plenty more happy RAM customers than unhappy ones. Any event you go to you will see loads of them flying. And go to the Hotshots section on the BVM website and see how many fly RAM also. Maybe as a new years resolution we all should agree on stopping this ridiculous bashing of each others products and do what this is all about. FLY AND HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE FRIENDSHIP THIS HOBBY OFFERS.

Let the events show what is working, and leave the competition to the manufacturers.

Brian

Yes I agree Johnny, we can always repair or replace our airplanes. It gets old when you have had the experience with the RAM engines that some of us have had and then are told NOT to say anything negative about them. I WAS at one time a happy RAM customer, had three of their engines. Once each of them got a little time on them they ALL had problems. I ALSO fly at lot Johhny and have had plenty of issues with them and none whatsoever with the current engines I fly.

Vincent,
I dont really see how being friends with Rei has any relevance. How many have personal friends at JC?
The point I was trying to make was we have all heard over and over again about some particular individuals engines blowing up all the time, after he made the switch. But before was driving the RAM bandwagon. And now We are being told RAMS are junk by an individual that has 1000 flights with them after RAM closes. How about the truth for a change. Who do we believe? It all seems very hypocritical. I've had some problems, but I find myself biting my tongue. I'm pretty upset with some things that are coming out. I"m not trying to call anyone out or want to be disrespectful, but man I get tired of hearing the ram slamming. I'm also pissed because I had a flameout and messed up my Bobcat this weekend. It would be nice to hear constructve criticism, instead of this way over the top stuff, especially from the people that used to be on the other side of the fence.
We all need to vent some times, but do it respectfully. There are still many satisfied RAM owners that value their turbines and dont really want to hear that a product they think highly of is crap and cant be ran to its specifications. I own several brands and I value them all, but I dont see any significant differences and have had problems with them ALL. But I have never had a RAM not get me home.
Scott Marr

I also thought it was funny how the majority of engines that placed in Top Gun 02 were RAMS. Good enough for Top Gun aircraft, but not good enough to run at full power.
Scott

Hello Frank,

Sorry to have misspelled your name before. This is the questioned I asked at first!! I was starting to think my English was poor!

I have not talked to Carlos, mainly because I was not thinking about buying these RAMs until I had heard you had created some new parts for the RAM design.

I am not really interested in buying a basically new RAM and then sending it to RTI and end up with the same unit that uses the old design parts. I would like to have the new shaft (or other parts?) that fixes the old RAM problems you mentioned.

I will ask Carlos seperately as this thread has turned strange.

thank you,

Mark

Scott wrote:

<<Vincent,
I dont really see how being friends with Rei has any relevance. How many have personal friends at JC? >>

Hi Scott,

Johnny lives nearby Ram and was getting some motors to fly and test for Rei. You don`t think that has any relevance?? I was running two 1000`s and at the same time my flying buddies were running jetcat and amt equipment. Mine were breaking and acting up, theirs were not. I became a believer back in 2001 and sold off the Rams, never looked back and happy with my two P-120`s and a new P-80. I took a lot of "heat" thru some private e-mails about the switch, those people are now running cats too.

Vin...

It is a big shame that some of us are still trying to drag RAM into the muds despite the fact that they are no longer in business.

FWIW, the majority of the people slamming RAM all started with RAM. I take this RAM issue very personal because Albert and Rei are my good friends.

I was tempted to close this thread earlier today, but because of my affiliation with Albert and Rei, I decided to recuse myself.

Please gentlemen, let us let the sleeping dog sleep.

Still too much blame being laid at Rei and Al's door, IMHO.

The crash of the tech bubble in the stockmarket, and the cataclysmic collapse of RAM were 2 of the greatest examples of "Self-Fullfilling Prophecy" in 2000-2002. I know Ghost Rider knows about S-F-P, but for those who don't, the trendy term is "slippery slope" with a touch of CYA!! Once you get the avalanche going, ain't no stoppin' that mountain of snow!

The bailout of not only scores of RAM owners, but the early bailout of most of the reps, assured collapse of RAM, more than a few shed turbine blades or wet starts.

For those with a failing short-term memory like mine, before the guys in the Black Forest stopped micro-managing the U.S. Market from the woods and let Bob Wilcox have a hand at it, the JetCat scene in the U.S. was on the verge of collapse. Took me 5 months to get my old P-80 overhauled----no new engines for months, no spare parts, no prices on the spare parts, engines that cooked the combustors and propane wicks if you played around at full throttle after takeoff, ECU's that spiked the RX, etc. Those were the days of those great air-start RAM's produced and supported by two of the greatest guys in the hobby. That's why RAM outsold JetCat 10:1 back in those days.

The model turbine market cannot sustain a large scale bailout. What do you think the profit margin is for JetCat, JetCat USA, and the the final retailer on a P-120 that can be bought at discounted retail for as low as 2495.00 on some package deals?

My (3) P-120's and old P-80 now with Inconel combustor and 4.0 ECU are dream machines, but not until going thru several less than desirable iterations.

Wonder where the Nasdaq would be today, if we all hadn't sold off. Remember, it is a zero-sum game. We could all still be multi-millionaires, maybe...........

Tom

P.S.----Please accept this post as an observation of human behavior, not an attempt to lay blame.

I think you have hit it on the head, many were quietly trying to dump their RAM motors before the bottom dropped out of the prices...SFP!


I have an old RAM 1000 and I am trying to see if the new turbine wheels are any better now, not sure if they are still made by Jesus Artes or not, Rei and Albert sold them but didn't Artes make all of the parts?

Since Johnny and Scott seems to be aiming some arrows my way, I'll respond, but I'm not going to get dragged into this quagmire very far. I have better things to do.

My opinion concerning how I would run a RAM 1000 is based on experience. Looking back on it, I never personally blew up a RAM, but I flew 1000's in smallish planes, with the motors set to 120k. When I was trying to promote RAM as a rep, people would point that fact out to me. So I took my 1000's to the max, and promptly had trouble with them. I have seen FAR too many of them blow up in other peoples models to think that it is not a significant problem with the design. And I have seen both Artes and Wren wheels come apart. So I present my opinion on how to operate them not as a slam, but as just trying to help someone avoid a disaster with some advice gained from experience.

If you guys want to continue to take shots at me for trying to help, go right ahead.

Why is it you lye and wait til you sell your last RAM before you decide to publically announce what a piece of crap it was. I never heard no one crying while they still owned RAMs. And if you thought it was a bomb waiting to go off, how could you pass it off to your fellow modeler?
Im also kinda tired of everyone playing like they dont ever have any problems these days. I must of been going to different shows. And when a problem does occur, its so easily explained away as air bubbles or other crap. Lets be honest with each other and quit playing make believe. I think everyone would benefit and appreciate it.

Vincent,
I see your point, I just don't see how being Rei friend will benefit Johnny now. Johnny doesnt have anything to gain. And in all fairness, I know you had a few problems originally after you switched.
And if anyone should be mad at RAM it should be me. The first run after getting my 1000 back from Albert before they closed blew the bearings and came back with different ECU and pump. Then he hosed me on a P80 he sold me.
People have been blasting RAM about all the upgrades and changes they had and I just dumped around 1000 bucks on upgrades to my JC's. I did not buy my JC new. When I decided to get a 120, there were none in stock and I found one at TAMs that was new with a few bench runs. Unfortunately it needed combustion chamber upgrade and a new compressor. The old one lost some blades.
Scott

Im sorry Tony, I respect you as a fellow modeler and don't wish to disrespect you. Frankly, I felt disappointed and a little betrayed that you would publically say those things about RAM. For many years I've been hearing about your success to find out it wasnt all sucess. I wish these things had been more public before, instead of after. It seems a little misleading. I know you have better things to do, but this is my hobby that I have invested alot of money in and would just like some straight talk. I try not to get caught up in these threads and try to use this getaway for info or entertainment. But i had to folow up on this one to air a few things out.
Scott

Well, Scott, I still own two RAM's. A 1000 and a 500. I still like the 500 and since I just bought a new ECU and SDT for it I think I'm going to keep it. I did sell my other 1000 recently, but it had been upgraded by TJT and when I sold it I specifically told the buyer I would not run it over 120k. Sold it pretty cheap, too.

I gave you the facts of why my support for RAM ceased in my previous post. Maybe you should try to get some of your facts straight.

In an attempt to get this thread back a little more positive, maybe someone could explain the variations in the model 750.

I see there's a -F and a -P floating around out there. Any other types? Since these seem to be the engines from RAM that no one seems to complain about, I'm thinking of scouting out a pair to put on a big Lassek A-10 - the thrust level is a perfect match, as are the recent prices I've seen around here. Just need a guide thru the jargon. Anybody, anybody?

Thanks

Thanks very much for the feedback. I was hoping to buy at least one if not 2 RAMs and use the new wheels (non Artes) wheels that Frank Tiano is making.

Frank has stated that he does not want to do the work on old RAMS but perhaps Carlos can...at these incredibally cheap prices I can afford to change the turbine wheels from the old Artes to the new stuff and still come out OK.

Thanks again,

Mark

Hello Tom
Even though I am new here to RCU I can easily answer that question for you since it is no big secret. $1500 give or take to split between JetCat, JetCat USA and the final retailer. Because of the volume they produce turbines, and that they make most parts inhouse, JC can produce engine for around 1000 Euro which is equal to about $1000 dollars. Most people does not know this, but it does not cost more to produce a P80 than a P120 or even a P160. That is also why JC is stopping sales of P80 in germany, because why produce an engine that cost the same as the big moneymakers.
Hope this helps understanding the economics of turbine making.
Peter

Okay folks - this thread has gone sufficiently off topic in short order that I see no point in allowing it to continue.

JohnG - if you want your latest question answered, go ahead and start a new thread with that question ... and lets not have anyone thinking that's a good place to continue all the backstabbing...

In closing, let me just say that I too have had both good and bad experiences with RAM, I too have a bunch of totally unsubstantiated theories about what may or may not have helped contribute to their downfall, and I too would discuss them here if I thought we could have a good logical discussion without all of the *****ing, backstabbing etc... but it seems there is too much passion & frustration out there for us to currently be able to conduct such a discussion without resorting to the kind of personal attacks etc that are being thrown around here - and so this thread will now be closed to allow some of you to cool off a bit.

I hope that those of you who have made accusations against others here are proud of what you have said... I know some of the people who have been vilified here, and each one of them is a good guy. Let's try not be in such a hurry to demonize each other over stuff like this in future.

Regards,
Gordon

Thanks Gordon for stepping in and closing this thread. I was hoping that another moderator would close it sooner than later. BTW, I 100% agree with your assessment of the situation.

......ghost rider.......out...