But they are Spektrum products. What about Futaba and JR??? There's a reason the prime manufacturers havn't released their own stuff. And when is JR or Futaba going to endorse the Spektrum modules?

It is frustrating that we can't buy a decent radio on 2.4. Why???

Chris

Chris, John Redman who someone has indicated flew the Spectrum module in his JR 10x at Florida Jets is not only an employee of Horizon but also a JR Rep if I am not mistaken. Most likely all of the testing for Spectrum systems was done by JR reps. That is a pretty good endorsement I think...Gary

Great question Chris.... my guess is marketing.. There is inventory of non-module type 72Mhz systems they need to sell out. Phase in of the Ghz systems is controlled for that reason as much as anything else. From their view point (money) I can understand the phase-in route.
Lee

impounding of TX isn't just about preventing accidental flip ons, it's about control of the event and who's flying. if thats to much to ask of you as you indicate, you're just lazy. stop acting like a bunch of 5 yr olds and impound your radio, nobody is going to take your pride and joy away and keep it, you'll get it back when you need it.

kc

So kc,

Let's say your are at the big jet event with your SS radio and it is impounded because somebody has decided arbitrarily that it would be necessary to impound a SS TX. You discover that you need to cycle your landing gear, you go to the impound to get your TX and the impound guy says, "Nope...'Got FIVE guys flying SS already...you have to wait." Now, since you don't have a DSC cord because it is not necessary and the manufacturer did not provide that capability, you have to wait to work on your bird....Does that make sense??? It is not a matter of someone "going to take your pride and joy away". Out here is the West, I am lucky in that there aren't many fliers on my 72 mhz. channel so I get to keep the pin and TX all day usually. It is a amazing to me how many times I need to check something and in turn get to do it when my tx is sitting there next to my jet..............I can hardly wait to get my SS module for my Futaba 9ZAP.

Tailwinds,

John

What does TX impound have to do with control of the event? Impound has never guaranteed that a random TX in a motor home does not get turned on. We need to control the flightline it is a simple as that. Let's put our energy into developing a flightline control that keeps the event safe. Accidental turn ons are a thing of the past with Spread Spectrum technology.

Why do we need to know who is flying? What control do we need?

The 9-10 annual jet events I have attended each year for the past 7 years needed control for frequencies primarily; but secondly it was needed because too many people held on to the frequency pins longer than they were suppose while working on their planes at the pits which led to the need to know who had the pin. None of which is neccessary with 2.4Ghz!!!

Nobody is acting like 5 year olds here, we are just moving into a new phase of our hobby which no longer requires control or the need to know who has what pin. Impounding is simply not neccessary unless there are other reasons I don't understand.

In addition to all this I can name three events where the wrong frequency pins were handed out to the wrong pilot by the guys at the impound, or frequency pins were taken back to the hotel with the guys after a day of flying. This either delayed the start of the event the next day or they simply made up a new pin hoping whoever had it didn't use it when they returned that day (very scary). I don't really call this control of an event but at the time this was our only choice so we had to live with it but now we can finally move on...Well some of us can I guess!! Gary

Silver your belife of not impounding a 2.4 beacause it can not interfere with a 72 mhz is fine. That is not my concern. Banning the so called "Old technoligy" is just crazy. We have flown on it for years.

Understand that I am not against the 2.4 radio. I fly turbine jets and will probably end up with a module for my JR 9303 radio. My concern was SOMEONE FLYING A 2.4 THEN SWITCHING TO A 72 MHZ AND FORGETTING TO TAKE THE PIN FOR THE 72 MHZ. THIS CAN AND WILL SHOOT SOMEONE DOWN. I did not say I wanted to control the number of 2.4 radios. My club is limited to the number of aircraft due to a house in the vacinity.

Now I am not the only one thinking about this. I just recieved the March issue of Model Aviation Magazine. There is an artical on the Spectrum radio. On page 53 of the magazine in the right hand corner there is a box With the AMA's Take. they have the same concern as I do. It has nothing to do with control and more to do with concern of forgetting a pin on the 72 Mhz and hurting the other person.

Lee,
What entity do you want to ban 72 MHZ: AMA, FCC, both?
I fly on 6 M, do you want all those radios banned too?
You might have a problem with the FCC on banning 6 M radios.
Just curious how you want to implement your suggestion.
BRG,
Jon

I am not a current RC Pilot so I have no comment on the impounding of TX's, but I do know alot about RF technologies. It is irresponsible to think that just because you have a 2.4 ghz Digital Spread Spectrum TX and RX system that you will not be interfered on or cause interference. This technology GREATLY reduces the chances of RFI, but does not eliminate it. The 2.4 ghz digital spread spectrum band is a crowded band in Techno Dense Populations and locations. Fortunately many flying fields are away from this.... but are they? Here is a list of just some of the devices playing in that band... who brings these to the field?

1. Bluetooth devices
2. Wireless USB
3. Telemetry Links (RC aircraft, cameras, security systems, facilities monitoring)
4. Wireless LANS
5. Coredless phone
6. Wireless Microphones.
7. Microwave Ovens
8 RC DSS TX

The more devices within a compact area the greater chance of RF Intereference. Did you ever wonder why they started making 5.8 ghz cordless phone??? Because the 2.4 DSS phones were being interfered on.

This does not even address the EMI issues that still remain within the complex aircraft you are flying.... (Do not get lazy in your wiring just because you have DSS onboard. EMI can still cross couple into your radio components and reek havoc)

If I were asked for my opinion, I would highly suggest that you remain vigilant in maintaining "radio silence" when ever possible, especially when the radio link supports or controls a system where human life and items of great value are concerned. Your Bluetooth or LAN can take a momentary hit and mean nothing to you, but can flight systems?


WHY aren't there more channels on the 2.4 ghz DSS RC radios? Although DSS is great technology it does have it's limitations in what you can do with it, Particularly in high data rate applications. DSS uses 100 to 1000 times the bandwidth of the data bandwidth that is trying to transfer / transmit. More channels and or more transmission speed = more bandwidth. For each data set to be transmitted there is, in most cases, lots more overhead data in the packet than the actual data that you are trying to transfer and all this needs to be repeated over and over again More bandwidth requires more band allocated by the FCC and more expensive and powerful transmitters. I have not found detailed technical data on the RC DSS systems (probably proprietary) I cannot say for sure, but I think what you have today is a balance of radio channel information and the speed it needs to transfer. Hopefully there will be more channels someday. Has anyone tried to run 2 TX's to one bird? That would be a trick...

I hope this helps some..


bob

that has been one of the few complaints I've had about impounding TXs is that there are always 2 or 3 guys who want to bring their plane out to the field and work on it for hours at the time and it's always the same few people, they can't seam to grasp the concept that the field is for flying, home is where you work on em.

I've also yet to see an impound that refused a guy his TX to work on his plane (when he was on a different freq) just because XX people were flying. if you want your 2.4 out of impound go get one of the 40 2.4 pins and keep it all day if nobody else needs one because all available combinations of channels have ran out.

as for some of the other comments about wrong pin/lost pins/etc.... thats just poor management of the event people and an even better reason for better control at those events.

i have no personal objections at all to SS technology, i just fail to see why everyone who has it all of a sudden feels a need to ban this and that and change the way things are done, it's not that hard to go get a frequency pin.

kc

KC, I assume your quote above is in reference to 72Mhz but I still don't understand what it is that needs to be controlled when we are using 2.4 Ghz...Gary

as far as TX nothing needs to be controlled at any event, no transmitter needs to be impounded IF the people used the frequency pins like they should and didn't just flip on their radios for the heck of it at the most inopportune time, unfortunately that just doesn't always happen so CDs choose to do TX impound, this controls how many TX are in the hands of the pilots at any given time and when the right people are doing it (people who actually have a bit of common sense) there are no chances of two TX being out of impound that are on the same freq so you can't be shot down by an 'Oh, I'm sorry, I just wanted to cycle my retracts'.

also at most events they try to keep the number of pilots in the air to a maximum of 5 at the time, without some sort of control you'd find a dozen or so people out there and one hell of a traffic jam in the pattern.

TX impound is just adding one more person to the loop to check that no two people are on the same freq and to me it's a good thing, while there are allot of people out there i trust not to turn on their radio without the pin, some people do (and some do it often), i was just shot down a few weeks ago by someone who just wanted to check his throws after hooking up and putting his wing on, it was just sunday flying so no impound, but if his TX was in an impound they wouldn't of let it out because i had the pin so that would of saved the incident. with 2.4 the likelihood of interference is drastically reduced but no reason why you can't goto the impound and check out a 2.4 pin and return it at the end of the day. you'll still have your TX in hand all day, but you're still in the habit of getting the pin.

kc
EDIT: Gary, the quote was in reference to the comments about impounds that had given out the wrong freq pin, it's careless mistakes like that, that often lead to mishaps at events, same for people who have different freqs for different planes and they have the pin for plane #1 but swap to #2 without getting a new pin. no system works perfect, but with responsible people running the impound the chances are reduced for shooting down someone, especially for the not so responsible pilots who hate impound and frequency control in the first place.

[quote]ORIGINAL: KC36330

if you want your 2.4 out of impound go get one of the 40 2.4 pins and keep it all day if nobody else needs one because all available combinations of channels have ran out.

Great idea! At the start of the rally, impound all Txs and then hand out all the pins to the SS guys and let them un-impound there TXs....Ya that should work LOL!

TX impound is just adding one more person to the loop to check that no two people are on the same freq and to me it's a good thing, while there are allot of people out there i trust not to turn on their radio without the pin, some people do (and some do it often),

Soooo, does this mean that you are going to volunteer to be the impound guy at a jet rally?....Been there, done that at a few large contests, didn't deserve a T-shirt

Tailwinds,

John

I've done the impound a few times and don't have a problem with it, nobody here is into jets but myself so it's not very likely that there will ever be an event held here where I'm asked to do impound but if it happens, yeah I'll be more then happy to do it. you don't have to fly at every event.

on your sarcastic remark about the un-impounding, all we're asking is that everyone maintain the habit of getting the pin and it's not asking that much out of anyone even though a few here seam to think it's like pulling teeth.


kc

Jon...Here is my Quote:
Best case safety precaution would be to ban any old radio system's that require frequency control Just think of the extra workers a CD would have to use in other ways. And just think of the pressure all of us owner's of the old out dated crap would put on manufactures?
Jon.... I suppose I should have put a smiley at the end of this whole paragraph.... cause my intention was for the thought to be taken tongue-in-cheek... hummm I never was much good at humor...of course I still think any idea of applying extra pressure on manufactures to get em off the dime would be a good thing.
Lee

Im not for banning the 72mhz systems in any form I think in about 3-5 years they
will have gone the way of the old AM systems of about 15 years ago.

I do wonder however why the AMA didnt lobby for all radio manufactors to install
scanners in their transmitters so they would not turn on if their freq was already
in use kind of like the Polk Hobby system.

Hi Lee,
Actually I was responding to this statement:
"THE SOONER WE BAN EVERYTHING BUT SSS BASED RADIO'S THE BETTER in my opinion."
If it's supposed to be a joke, sorry, but guess I missed the humor.
BRG,
Jon

Well I guess I was on a roll in the post.... just dreaming, hoping and typing away.

You'll have to admit in today's world of electronics relying on 30 to 40 year old technology as we have been forced to do in modeling...don't ya think it's about time! Shoot I'll be in a damn wheel chair by the time these nickel & dime manufactures get with the new world!

I hope this post more clearly states my belief.. I do want to be clearly understood.

Out with the old in with the new.... as long as it works flawlessly!!
Lee

so all of us can assume you're all for a banning of everything old and all for everything new.......... so we can also assume you're in line to toss out your old high emissions turbine engine (along with the gas and glow engines) and swap to all brushless LiPo driven systems because they are newer technology and Allot more environmentally friendly? can't play both sides of the fence, you should start a petition to ban 72mhz systems and turbines.

kc

It's the year 2010 and GrandPa and Billy Bob stop by the local flying site to watch the mega big Buyem and Flyem event and to smell the Jet Fuel for a while. "Gee, Billy Bob, must be 200 Pilots here and maybe 400 Airplanes!" Billy Bob to GrandPa, "Why are there so many kids in the Pits, GrandPa?", "Oh, those are the spotters, Billy Bob," After watching the spotters buzz around like bees, and talk into their hands, Billy Bob asks GrandPa, "What are they spotting GrandPa, Ants?" "No, Billy Bob, their are spotting to see when someone turns their Transmitter Off." "Then why do they talk to their hands?" "Well, their telling their Pilot he can turn his radio on before someone else grabs the Frequency!" "Oh, it's not first come first serve?", "No Billy Bob, it's just who has the quickest spotter!" "Gee GrandPa, it wasn't this way when you used to fly, now come it changed?" "Well, Billy Bob, something call Spread Spectrum was brought to the Radio Control Model Airplane hobby. Everybody said you don't need frequency control any more and they burned the old Impound Shed." "Actually, I think a Jet hit it and it just burned by itself." "Maybe I can be a spotter someday GrandPa?" "Maybe So, I understand the good ones can make a hundred dollars a day." (:-))))))))

i'm sure they blamed that on a 72mhz system that got shot down too

kc

Kc, HeaterMan
Ya, I will chuck my old single stage turbine for newer high tech multi-stage versions. Yep, I said multi-stage air-injected low fuel consumption high thrust low emission turbine of the 21st Century!

I say let's go ahead and jump into the 21st Century and ride it for all it's worth....why not it's going to be our last!

So let’s dump the 72Mhz stuff just like we did the 27Mhz stuff...let's move on!

Now all we have to do is figure out how to pay for all these new goodies [:@]
Lee