Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

I guess the ama enforced "rudder rule" doesn`t do much here does it?? V..

FTiano

My Feedback: (11)

Here it is, "From the Horses Mouth" so to speak.
I cannot believe all the crap being posted by people who were not even in attendance!
First of all, NOBODY knows exactly WHY the accident happened, but as some very intellegent people have suggested, it WAS an
accident! The model veered dramitically towards the flight line during takeoff. There were several other jets waiting for their turn to taxi out to
the active runway. One of those jets was in the path of the oncoming Tutor and one of the Pilots waiting on deck tried to grasp the errant model by the wing and it was just a bit too much for him. A broken piece of the wing put a gash in his leg.
He was administered aid immediatelly, an FAA official and another Pilot took him to a Clinic where he was stiched up.
He returned to the field in about an hour or so.
Despite Mr Gladwyn's observations, their was absolutley NOTHING that could have been accomplished by "inspecting"the model prior to flight!
The model had already been flown several times without incident! And, it had NOT been crashed during any of those previous flights.
Was there anything else that could have been done to "Help" prevent this from happening in the first place? Probably so! BUT, it was still an accident,
AND, best of all, the injured Pilot is going to be fine.
So let's stop the second guessing crap and just leave it alone. It serves NO purpose. I have dealt with both the situation and the pilot.
One last thing, the spectator line is quite a distance from the area where the incident took place. To paint a picture that people were in harms way is totally irresponsible!
The only people in harms way were the PILOTS who seem to always hang out on the flight line, when they are NOT Flying, even after repeatingly asking them to vacate the area.

Frank Tiano

blackcat

some-one must be hunted down by some-body to atone for some-thing done wrongly some-where...........
blah blah?

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

Post deleted as Frank has stated the facts.

Marty

turburnator

IF it was on a take off roll the very simple way to stop it ever happening is to start take off rolls in front of the pilots box this would have stop this ever happening why they feel the need to go so far down wind I will never know.

As for Dave Gladwins comments I stand with him totally safety can never be taken so lightly these models lift off a 30mph + and starting a take off roll so far down wind and then accelerating towards the pilots box is stupid and totally unnecessary as most models have more than enough power to get off quick enough. At uk jet meets and at my local club the practice of doing this half a mile down wind take off rolls HAS BEEN STOPPED. Obvious to me its only a matter of time before somebody is insured again as there are hundreds of jet take offs a month the odds will catch up if we don't take very simple precausions so maybe this could have been avoided

all the best

ant rutter

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

Who cares, there was nothing anybody could do about this... Why bring all the bad press to ourselves? None of this is doing anybody any good.. Do you think the heli guys or IMAC guys post three pages of bad press for themselves everytime their aircraft are involved in a accident?

I think not.. Let this go and move on.......

DA

NickC5FE

My Feedback: (31)

I agree about the BAD PRESS........As if all the people in the AMA that dont fly jets dont already want to see them dissapear. Close this thread, jet guys dont need to be baggin on jet guys, no matter what country you live in. I think it has already been told, there was nothing that could be done. Just my .02....Nick

turburnator

?? Start take off rolls directly infront of the pilots box would have.

the odds will catch up us if we do nothing then they will moan.

Ant

G.VITTINI

I would just like to add a little as I'm a good freind of the pilot and was there next to him.
As the model veered right ,he held full left rudder, but it seems wheel lock up played a roll.
and as for the comment that he never cared for the injured that's bull, he caredless for his plane and tended to the injured man the best he could, and has been down and hard on him self for this unfortunate accident.
When the injured man returned to the field they exchanged some kind words, smiles a handshake and all was forgiven.
I was personaly there for all of this.

George

Airforce7

My Feedback: (31)

George,

I'm really glad it all worked out for your pilot friend and the gentleman that got injured. Did you and your pilot friend take a look at the nose wheel steering and see what may have been the problem?

Ken

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

THIS THREAD IS OPEN AS LONG AS POSTS DO NOT FLAME, DEGRADE, INSULT OR EMBARRASS.

There have been posts from people who say they were there and saw what happened.

This is good. I am sure that if necessary an investigation will take place. Lets wait until the facts are known.

Mustang1971

My Feedback: (30)

I would like to add my two cents as I was located about 10 feet from the incident and remained with the injured pilot until he left for the clinic. The incident was apparently unavoidable although precations were taken (ie. safety fence which did slow the plane down). Although in the end the injury was quite minor it was taken quite seriously by the officials. There was an EMT on hand (whom I spoke with after the incident) and he tended to the fellow immediately using first aid equipment that was on hand at the field. Clearly everyone that was involved put the injured man's condition as a first priority with models secondary.

Frank laying out the facts as he did shows responsibility for the matter

I don't want to downplay the fact that this incident was serious but we need to recognize the fact that this was an accident. Once an accident takes place I believe there are two things that are important.

1. What can we do to avoid such an accident - with a mechanical malfunction there is not much that can be done besides a pre-flight. ALthough this particalar pilot has had a number of incidents in the (no offense to the pilot, jsut stating ths fact {lol}) past he is quite serious about this hobby and his aircraft (as Frank stated this plane had flown several times without incident). I can also tell you that from personal experience as I have been witness to several previous incidents they have normally not been of a mechanical failure nature.

2. Was the response effort sufficient and appropriate - based on what I saw firsthand I believe that the situation was handled efficiently and professionally

In conclusion, I propose that we not flame each other, the event, or it's organizers.

If you have a valid suggestion on how you think that there can be a safety improvement why not make a suggestion to Frank. I am sure he will be receptive as his goal in the end is for everyone to have a safe and enjoyable time

Thanks-
Sean

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Turburnator wrote: ?? <<<Start take off rolls directly infront of the pilots box would have. >>>

I agree and i don`t even apply full power until my jet is moving straight and on its way past the stations rotating right at the end of the runway. Putting all of the pilots together on one end would make it safer too.

V..

FTiano

My Feedback: (11)

ONE Last Thing.
Notice how the fellow in a few posts back stated that the WHEEL Locked Up?
Right. Then look at the next post where someone asks if the Nose Steering has been repaired or tended to!
Some folks can't get it right when it's in black and white and in front of their very noses.
And, that is EXACTLY why we should NEVER spread a rumor without knowing for sure what has really taken place.

I'm outta here.

FT

Airforce7

My Feedback: (31)

Your right FT, it was an accident and it could have been any number of things that made that jet veer off. We'll never know and maybe it’s best we don't. I won’t ask anymore questions, but I would think the pilot should and resolve it to the best of his ability.

mode101

Well at least the guy was okay in the end. I thought the event was safely organized and there were plenty of people around to make sure of it.

Thanks to Frank Tiano for holding the event, hopefully next year March will come in as a Lamb instead of a Lion.

David Gladwin

Thanks Ant, you've got it. Starting take off rolls downwind is poor practice and no longer done at meetings in Australia. and sorry Sparky, think you're wrong, in ANY and ALL incidents we must try and follow the policy of the AAIB and try and found out why it happened and do our best to prevent a, possibly worse, recurrence, they and I, am not interested in blaming anyone.

Despite what FT says, perhaps a preflight inspection, or scruitineering, might not have found this problem, but perhaps it might, I think it impossible and most unwise to be so specific. At the JMA meetings in the UK, and Classic jets and others, scruitineering DOES take place and on one occasion, at Odiham a couple of years ago, I grounded a couple of models and put restrictions on another, which did not appear up to the job. No hassle from the owners, just the opposite when I explained the problems and how to correct them. Perhaps they, we, are wasting their time doing this but, again a walk round inspection of ANY aircraft before flight is good practice and just the norm in all branches of non model aviation, whether a simple sailplane or a 747. My models get the same treatment, a DI and a preflight "walk round".

Finally I emphasise we, you, have had yet another warning which in slightly similar circumstances COULD have been tragic, lets take it on board, evaluate, and see if we can further improve safety without the discussion degenerating into the gutter and becoming personal and so protect the future of our hobby.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

didn't you read where the plane had been flown several times at the meet before this happened? i wish you guys would quit the theatrics and drama. just let it go ! whoulda -coulda -shoulda what's your point? if your not responsable enough to perform routine mantainance on a 6,000 plane ,then you might better fly trainners . dam!

Hustler58

My Feedback: (1)

Please close this form before another IDIOT post ! Have a nice day! Butch

ps2727

I was there and my opinion is that the flight line was as good as other jet meets I've attended. We all want to see safe events- but we also want to regulate ourselves. The idea of building an expensive jet and driving many hours to an event and then having someone tell me I can't fly it is distasteful to me.
This incident may have been avoidable but I know that professionally maintained and preflighted aircraft crash everyday. Sometimes things just go wrong. I would hope everyone remembers that we are talking about a reasonably intelligent group of people here and that the price of participation should keep those invlolved alert as to how best to maintain and operate thier jets.
Sometime you just have to take reasonable precautions then accept a certain amount of risk....
Paul

chipperg

My Feedback: (9)

I might as well post something also. My flight Instructor would have killed me if I flew like some of the JET Jocks I saw at FJ. High speed circling passes 15ft off of the deck with the airplane (missel) pointed at the crowed many times during a flight. What in the He....l are you guys thinking!!!!!. The aircraft should be flown safely. I know some of you are expert pilots, you would not know from the amount of crashes I saw!!! Alright let me have it. Thanks for my opinion.

CARS II

My Feedback: (7)

Here are my two centavos.

First, I totally agree with Frank T. ( for a change ) He described the accident the way it happened and like he said it was an accident and that should be the end of it.

Why do I agree with him simple, TamJets had a team flying a the time of the accident ( Russ and my self ) and we were at the flight station next to it, we took the proper acction to the situation at hand and nearly lost the F-16, we got it back and that was the end of it for us, it was very close. Our visiting freind David from Australia and part of the TamJets team, been a trained fire fighter jump to the situation right away and administer first aid to the injured.

PS: And yes, there were to many people at the flight line that were absolutely not needed at all like the two blond ladies, I can't imagine them pitting for one of the pilots, also some older expectatores seating right next to the flight line were they could have been injure because of an incoming jet.

I'm happy to hear that he is going to be OK and that the injure is not serious.

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

You are classic guy!!! Note the second half of his quote guys.. This guy has the balls to bag on some of the pilots that were there and yet has an even larger set to ask if he can bum some stick time on someone's boomer.. Paleeze guy.. Have some tact! How old are you five????

chipperg

My Feedback: (9)

First of all afterburnner, I am not bashing any one inparticular. I did ask the question about some boomer time but I was advised against it due the amount of flying that was going on at FJ. Yes, the majority of the pilots flew safely but some did not. I have 13 years experience as a State Fire Marshal and OSHA inspector. I know a thing or two about safety. I agree with the other posts that more safety precautions need to be taken and I would love to help make some of these decisions. Point me in the right direction. Thanks

GlennisAircraft

My Feedback: (1)

How long has Fl. Jets been held vs. the number of flights vs. the number of accidents? I bet is it a pretty good percentage. Seems like with what Frank has posted it wasn't a disaster - he had people in place. Keep in mind that an engine problem on a multi-engine warbird could have been just as bad or worse on takeoff. I think we've all seen some scary stuff - well before Turbines came along - I have.

The only thing to keep in mind here is all R/C aircraft can be dangerous -

Dennis