Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
06-16-2010, 05:30 PM
#3501
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: david101
Concern now is with front of canopy gap to fuse. May add thin plastic or metal fairing to fuse to shield canopy gap from air entry. Thoughts?????
Concern now is with front of canopy gap to fuse. May add thin plastic or metal fairing to fuse to shield canopy gap from air entry. Thoughts?????
Thanks
dave
06-16-2010, 05:34 PM
#3502
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Its difficult to visulise the problem with your canopy, post a pic and someone may come up with a smart idea to get over it, how about a false former in front of the canopy attached to the fus?
Mike
Mike
06-16-2010, 06:16 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel
Chris
Are you going to use pistons to move the O ring or are you relying on the seal between the O ring and the grove to keep the air in when you actuate the brake?
Mike
Chris
Are you going to use pistons to move the O ring or are you relying on the seal between the O ring and the grove to keep the air in when you actuate the brake?
Mike
Eagle,
I made these like the original BVM brakes where the O-ring seals against the sides of the groove and expands out, nothing fancy. The inside surface of the groove was very precisely machined, it looks almost polished in comparison to the rest of the part so that it will seal properly. Its simple and effective at the compromise of some control.
This is similar to what I used in my DF days. For what it is (an introductory trainer) and the fact that it will mostly be flown from grass once the waiver is attained, I think it is adequate.
Any suggestions?
Best regards,
Chris
06-16-2010, 06:21 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Hi Chris, my brakes are similar, machined the oring groove so the o ring could just pull itself clear of the hub, when air pressure released, but found in the winter, i would occasionally develop an air leak. tried all sorts of things to get round the problem, even different grease, vasaline etc, but still occasionally had leak, dirt is also a problem. I then took a stanley knife blade, and offered it up against the oring. I measured just over half the diameter, and super glued a piece of balsa on both sides of the blade. I then cut the o ring, from the inside, all the way round the inner circumfrence, about half the way through.
Now when the air pressure builds, it pushes the oring sides hard against the walls of o ring seating groove, providing a perfect seal and expands perfectly.
My O rings have been in for years, never serviced and work faultlesly. If you experience leaks, might be worth a go.
Ref drilling and tapping the nipples, dont bother, just get a couple of the fantastic air connection couplings made by Skymasters, the ones that screw together. Take them apart and you have two beautifull small nipples. Cut the flange (seat) from the end of the nipple. Drill a hole in your hubs, a few thou under size, and tap the nipples in, job done, real neat. Just cut a small relief on the bottom side of the nipple so when it bottoms in the hole, the air can make its way to the perpendicular drilling air hole to to under side of the o ring.
I use these couplings a lot, i love them. I use them as a one way restrictor for the gear as well. Just put a tiny ball bearing inside. Use a scriber and score a groove on one face, inside the body, where the ball bearing will be thrust against it, so it can not seal. This way the gear down released air, will escape with no restiction, but the good sealing face, the one you didnt score, will offer a big resistance to the air and allow it to push the gear up but slowly. The air will get through. Works a treat. See it operate in flight here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS6wwYYAqdY
Mike , many thanx for the info on Reflex, I am familiar with this, but wanted to design an extending leg, just for the hell of it. I think we have more functions on our basic planes than the really expensive jets you see in the magazines. Only other thing i can think of to fit, is an air brake, braking parachute and bomb drop mechanism. Swing wings would be fun. I did cut out an airbrake on the top deck just rear of the canopy on my old Falcon just to see what it looks like, looks great. Not sure what effect it would have on landing disturbing the airflow over the elevator though. Just havnt had time to fit the air ram and hinge it, but looks good.
For info, i use just one, standard sized air tank, to run my retracts (air up/spring down), extending nose gear ram, and the brakes. I can reatract the gear 6 times, i seem to reacall. I normally use the gear just once or twice in flight, and with braking taxiing out , landing and taxi in, i have probably around 80 psi, from 100psi left, so no need for additional tanks.
Cheers Tim
Now when the air pressure builds, it pushes the oring sides hard against the walls of o ring seating groove, providing a perfect seal and expands perfectly.
My O rings have been in for years, never serviced and work faultlesly. If you experience leaks, might be worth a go.
Ref drilling and tapping the nipples, dont bother, just get a couple of the fantastic air connection couplings made by Skymasters, the ones that screw together. Take them apart and you have two beautifull small nipples. Cut the flange (seat) from the end of the nipple. Drill a hole in your hubs, a few thou under size, and tap the nipples in, job done, real neat. Just cut a small relief on the bottom side of the nipple so when it bottoms in the hole, the air can make its way to the perpendicular drilling air hole to to under side of the o ring.
I use these couplings a lot, i love them. I use them as a one way restrictor for the gear as well. Just put a tiny ball bearing inside. Use a scriber and score a groove on one face, inside the body, where the ball bearing will be thrust against it, so it can not seal. This way the gear down released air, will escape with no restiction, but the good sealing face, the one you didnt score, will offer a big resistance to the air and allow it to push the gear up but slowly. The air will get through. Works a treat. See it operate in flight here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS6wwYYAqdY
Mike , many thanx for the info on Reflex, I am familiar with this, but wanted to design an extending leg, just for the hell of it. I think we have more functions on our basic planes than the really expensive jets you see in the magazines. Only other thing i can think of to fit, is an air brake, braking parachute and bomb drop mechanism. Swing wings would be fun. I did cut out an airbrake on the top deck just rear of the canopy on my old Falcon just to see what it looks like, looks great. Not sure what effect it would have on landing disturbing the airflow over the elevator though. Just havnt had time to fit the air ram and hinge it, but looks good.
For info, i use just one, standard sized air tank, to run my retracts (air up/spring down), extending nose gear ram, and the brakes. I can reatract the gear 6 times, i seem to reacall. I normally use the gear just once or twice in flight, and with braking taxiing out , landing and taxi in, i have probably around 80 psi, from 100psi left, so no need for additional tanks.
Cheers Tim
06-16-2010, 06:28 PM
#3505
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Hey all...... a friend of mine has one and he installed a turbine. He did some mods to it
and went into the wings and did some reinforcement for his own piece of mind. he has other
jets and nice ones I might add, and for the amount of time spent doing the extra work, was
well worth it. I think he put a P-80 in it, BUT NOT SURE. Flies like a dream according to him.
Take the time and do the extra work, it will definatly be a lot less money than a BVM,Tam
Jets or the like. We'er up here at 7000ft so a P-80 might be a bit much at lower alt.
and went into the wings and did some reinforcement for his own piece of mind. he has other
jets and nice ones I might add, and for the amount of time spent doing the extra work, was
well worth it. I think he put a P-80 in it, BUT NOT SURE. Flies like a dream according to him.
Take the time and do the extra work, it will definatly be a lot less money than a BVM,Tam
Jets or the like. We'er up here at 7000ft so a P-80 might be a bit much at lower alt.
06-16-2010, 07:40 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: tim777jet
Hi Chris, my brakes are similar, machined the oring groove so the o ring could just pull itself clear of the hub, when air pressure released, but found in the winter, i would occasionally develop an air leak. tried all sorts of things to get round the problem, even different grease, vasaline etc, but still occasionally had leak, dirt is also a problem. I then took a stanley knife blade, and offered it up against the oring. I measured just over half the diameter, and super glued a piece of balsa on both sides of the blade. I then cut the o ring, from the inside, all the way round the inner circumfrence, about half the way through.
Now when the air pressure builds, it pushes the oring sides hard against the walls of o ring seating groove, providing a perfect seal and expands perfectly.
My O rings have been in for years, never serviced and work faultlesly. If you experience leaks, might be worth a go.
Ref drilling and tapping the nipples, dont bother, just get a couple of the fantastic air connection couplings made by Skymasters, the ones that screw together. Take them apart and you have two beautifull small nipples. Cut the flange (seat) from the end of the nipple. Drill a hole in your hubs, a few thou under size, and tap the nipples in, job done, real neat. Just cut a small relief on the bottom side of the nipple so when it bottoms in the hole, the air can make its way to the perpendicular drilling air hole to to under side of the o ring.
I use these couplings a lot, i love them. I use them as a one way restrictor for the gear as well. Just put a tiny ball bearing inside. Use a scriber and score a groove on one face, inside the body, where the ball bearing will be thrust against it, so it can not seal. This way the gear down released air, will escape with no restiction, but the good sealing face, the one you didnt score, will offer a big resistance to the air and allow it to push the gear up but slowly. The air will get through. Works a treat. See it operate in flight here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS6wwYYAqdY
Mike , many thanx for the info on Reflex, I am familiar with this, but wanted to design an extending leg, just for the hell of it. I think we have more functions on our basic planes than the really expensive jets you see in the magazines. Only other thing i can think of to fit, is an air brake, braking parachute and bomb drop mechanism. Swing wings would be fun. I did cut out an airbrake on the top deck just rear of the canopy on my old Falcon just to see what it looks like, looks great. Not sure what effect it would have on landing disturbing the airflow over the elevator though. Just havnt had time to fit the air ram and hinge it, but looks good.
For info, i use just one, standard sized air tank, to run my retracts (air up/spring down), extending nose gear ram, and the brakes. I can reatract the gear 6 times, i seem to reacall. I normally use the gear just once or twice in flight, and with braking taxiing out , landing and taxi in, i have probably around 80 psi, from 100psi left, so no need for additional tanks.
Cheers Tim
Hi Chris, my brakes are similar, machined the oring groove so the o ring could just pull itself clear of the hub, when air pressure released, but found in the winter, i would occasionally develop an air leak. tried all sorts of things to get round the problem, even different grease, vasaline etc, but still occasionally had leak, dirt is also a problem. I then took a stanley knife blade, and offered it up against the oring. I measured just over half the diameter, and super glued a piece of balsa on both sides of the blade. I then cut the o ring, from the inside, all the way round the inner circumfrence, about half the way through.
Now when the air pressure builds, it pushes the oring sides hard against the walls of o ring seating groove, providing a perfect seal and expands perfectly.
My O rings have been in for years, never serviced and work faultlesly. If you experience leaks, might be worth a go.
Ref drilling and tapping the nipples, dont bother, just get a couple of the fantastic air connection couplings made by Skymasters, the ones that screw together. Take them apart and you have two beautifull small nipples. Cut the flange (seat) from the end of the nipple. Drill a hole in your hubs, a few thou under size, and tap the nipples in, job done, real neat. Just cut a small relief on the bottom side of the nipple so when it bottoms in the hole, the air can make its way to the perpendicular drilling air hole to to under side of the o ring.
I use these couplings a lot, i love them. I use them as a one way restrictor for the gear as well. Just put a tiny ball bearing inside. Use a scriber and score a groove on one face, inside the body, where the ball bearing will be thrust against it, so it can not seal. This way the gear down released air, will escape with no restiction, but the good sealing face, the one you didnt score, will offer a big resistance to the air and allow it to push the gear up but slowly. The air will get through. Works a treat. See it operate in flight here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS6wwYYAqdY
Mike , many thanx for the info on Reflex, I am familiar with this, but wanted to design an extending leg, just for the hell of it. I think we have more functions on our basic planes than the really expensive jets you see in the magazines. Only other thing i can think of to fit, is an air brake, braking parachute and bomb drop mechanism. Swing wings would be fun. I did cut out an airbrake on the top deck just rear of the canopy on my old Falcon just to see what it looks like, looks great. Not sure what effect it would have on landing disturbing the airflow over the elevator though. Just havnt had time to fit the air ram and hinge it, but looks good.
For info, i use just one, standard sized air tank, to run my retracts (air up/spring down), extending nose gear ram, and the brakes. I can reatract the gear 6 times, i seem to reacall. I normally use the gear just once or twice in flight, and with braking taxiing out , landing and taxi in, i have probably around 80 psi, from 100psi left, so no need for additional tanks.
Cheers Tim
What I had thought about was that if it leaked I could always order "Square section" O-rings from McMaster Carr. these will quadruple the contact surface between the O-ring walls and the groove walls while maintaining the same overall dimensions. They also offer a flat contact surface between the O-ring and the Drum which will brake better although if they lock up with the round ones "better" might be worse.
The McMaster part number is: 4061T232 and the website is: http://www.mcmaster.com
just search for that part number to see what I am talking about.
Best regards,
Chris
06-16-2010, 09:21 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel
Its difficult to visulise the problem with your canopy, post a pic and someone may come up with a smart idea to get over it, how about a false former in front of the canopy attached to the fus?
Mike
Its difficult to visulise the problem with your canopy, post a pic and someone may come up with a smart idea to get over it, how about a false former in front of the canopy attached to the fus?
Mike
Dave
06-16-2010, 10:14 PM
#3508
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
If you use pins or dowels in the front (I'm using two hooks of ply in the front and one canopy hatch in the rear) you should be fine. If you're still concerned with the gap you can heat up the edges, just slightly, until it softens. Then you can form the edge around the fuse better. Also, there is a much stronger canopy for sale somewhere in these forums. I believe the gentleman is "PlumberJohn". If not here, try the other "groups" site.
06-17-2010, 06:53 AM
#3509
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Hello all,
I'm also awaiting the arrival of my Falcon 120. There are several videos on you tube with this aircraft sporting several different turbine sizes,all the way up to a p-120 !!! I've also learned that some of these fellows have removed the fuelage formers and re-positioned them to accomadate the turbine equipment .I personally am several years away from the $$$ and the expierence to be successful with a turbine adventure, but I can still dream,for now it's going to be prop propelled I'm thinkin an OS 1.60.Good luck to all,and as a side note I've yet to here anything negative about this kit. If you go to yuotube just type in SUPER FALCON 120.
Jason V.
I'm also awaiting the arrival of my Falcon 120. There are several videos on you tube with this aircraft sporting several different turbine sizes,all the way up to a p-120 !!! I've also learned that some of these fellows have removed the fuelage formers and re-positioned them to accomadate the turbine equipment .I personally am several years away from the $$$ and the expierence to be successful with a turbine adventure, but I can still dream,for now it's going to be prop propelled I'm thinkin an OS 1.60.Good luck to all,and as a side note I've yet to here anything negative about this kit. If you go to yuotube just type in SUPER FALCON 120.
Jason V.
06-17-2010, 09:11 AM
#3510
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
You should easily be able to shape the front of the canopy to conform to the fuse. I put a floor on my canopy to direct any air that may enter away from the canopy. Also if you want a cockpit you'd have to do that anyway.
Joe
Joe
06-17-2010, 10:44 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Thanks again for info. I also added a floor such yours (with pilot) and three hooks at front plus screw at rear so may have problem with heat method. Shortened gear and noticed that wheel well plastic scrap is almost a perfect fit for a fairing at fuse front so may use that to do the job. Small button head screws should do the job. Used your ideas for tank and glue but used a Turtle wax car wash container. 64 ounce and almost a perfect fit. Small amount of heat at rear to clear rear spar.
ORIGINAL: joeflyer
You should easily be able to shape the front of the canopy to conform to the fuse. I put a floor on my canopy to direct any air that may enter away from the canopy. Also if you want a cockpit you'd have to do that anyway.
Joe
You should easily be able to shape the front of the canopy to conform to the fuse. I put a floor on my canopy to direct any air that may enter away from the canopy. Also if you want a cockpit you'd have to do that anyway.
Joe
06-18-2010, 09:46 AM
#3512
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
I've got my canopy figured out finally. I purchased one of Noray's from the "other" site. It's incredibly strong. I had to brace the middle as it was tended to squeeze together too much. Now I just need to file down the ply fangs in front and get a super snug fit.
06-21-2010, 02:31 PM
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06-21-2010, 02:35 PM
#3514
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Sorry Noray. I got my names mixed up. I corrected the post above to reflect your name. Lots of purchases made in the past couple weeks for the Falcon. Trying to keep it all straight has been difficult to say the least.
06-22-2010, 06:38 AM
#3515
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: gbauto1
Hello all,
I'm thinkin an OS 1.60.Good luck to all,and as a side note I've yet to here anything negative about this kit. If you go to yuotube just type in SUPER FALCON 120.
Jason V.
Hello all,
I'm thinkin an OS 1.60.Good luck to all,and as a side note I've yet to here anything negative about this kit. If you go to yuotube just type in SUPER FALCON 120.
Jason V.
jim
06-22-2010, 02:01 PM
#3516
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Hey guys
I just recieved my new Falcon and found the Aluminium tubes to be of a thinner wall then my previouse Falcon. What are you using on the tubes. Carbon Fiber or a thicker wall aluminium tube and where did you get them from.
Thanks
Joe Lewis
KingTech
K-80 owner.
I just recieved my new Falcon and found the Aluminium tubes to be of a thinner wall then my previouse Falcon. What are you using on the tubes. Carbon Fiber or a thicker wall aluminium tube and where did you get them from.
Thanks
Joe Lewis
KingTech
K-80 owner.
06-22-2010, 05:53 PM
#3519
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
It 's not just '20mm' it's the .05, .10, .15 after the 20 or 19.80 etc thats important if you get the chance measure with vernier etc as when you receive a '10mm' you will find it could be loose! I brought the main carbon tube and small one from a show took my vernier with me to measure and was lucky to find a main tube that was a thick wall and spot on on diameter.
Alan
Alan
06-26-2010, 07:55 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
I am interested in the approach of using no up thrust on the turbine as was mentioned on the last page. I have the use of a sod farm as one of the fields I fly from, but the owners would not be too appreciative of burn marks on the sod. When you setup with zero thrust, do you still burn the grass. Secondly, how much down elevator do you have programmed at full throttle setting.
Thanks
06-27-2010, 05:25 PM
#3522
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Nice weather in the UK this weekend so took the Falcon out on Saturday for a spin...had the airfield to myself as most people had gone to the Wings and Wheels show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEtPB62hOEw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEtPB62hOEw
06-28-2010, 03:27 AM
#3523
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: f6hlct
I am interested in the approach of using no up thrust on the turbine as was mentioned on the last page. I have the use of a sod farm as one of the fields I fly from, but the owners would not be too appreciative of burn marks on the sod. When you setup with zero thrust, do you still burn the grass. Secondly, how much down elevator do you have programmed at full throttle setting.
Thanks
I am interested in the approach of using no up thrust on the turbine as was mentioned on the last page. I have the use of a sod farm as one of the fields I fly from, but the owners would not be too appreciative of burn marks on the sod. When you setup with zero thrust, do you still burn the grass. Secondly, how much down elevator do you have programmed at full throttle setting.
Thanks
Once you get your C of G correct you don't need down elevator at WOT either.
Mike
06-28-2010, 06:00 AM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: fireblade5437
had the airfield to myself as most people had gone to the Wings and Wheels show
had the airfield to myself as most people had gone to the Wings and Wheels show
I had a go too in the last slot of the weekend. I was flying it along side an Elan that was powered by a booster 80 and on the fast passes he couldn't keep up! [sm=teeth_smile.gif]
Gregg Veasey
06-28-2010, 06:22 AM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Seen your falcon flying at W&W, was keen to see how much slower it landed than my smaller bobcat.
In the slot I seen it landed slower than the two elans and the intro, I know has a lot to do with the way they were flown but pleased to see the falcon land much slower than my bobcat will.
Great show by the way really enjoyed it and the superb weather.
In the slot I seen it landed slower than the two elans and the intro, I know has a lot to do with the way they were flown but pleased to see the falcon land much slower than my bobcat will.
Great show by the way really enjoyed it and the superb weather.