Well, something that non-members such as yourself may not realise since you weren't around when we were invited to Buttonwillow the first time, is that the non-jet guys got along fine without a dumpster for many years before we descended en-masse onto the site.

If I was one of the local guys, and was informed that I would have to pay for a dumpster that I don't want, just because the jet guys left a mess behind, I would be rather p'd off at that, and why on earth would we want to risk setting up bad feelings like that over a few bucks ?

The local guys have been extremely welcoming to us, in ways that many other clubs have not been, and it would IMO send totally the wrong message if we thanked them for their outstanding hospitality by making them bear the costs that exist only because of us newcomers.

Personally, I'd rather pay a few bucks extra and try to maintain the long term good relations with the club, than shoot ourselves in the foot because we're too miserly to cover the costs of OUR needs, and too short-sighted to think ahead about what trying to save a buck can cost us in the long term.

Gordon

Lets just up the yearly dues, to say, $30 bucks instead?

Forget the dumpster!

Raf

I agree with you Gordon. However, I think after the last outing we had, we are all now more aware of the importance of leaving the place free of trash. My understanding was last time people who left Sat night, thought they'd be back the next morning to fly some more. But then guys started taking off from the motel in the morning and no one came back out so the mess was left. I'm pretty sure that from now on, everyone will be more aware of cleaning up or better yet not let trash go everywhere in the first place. So I guess if we do a dumpster then I'm in but I would also be in favor of bring trash bags and bring home a full one.

Billy

Gordon, the club is not asking us for the extra money, you are offering it up. Thats fine that I am not a member and I am sorry that what happened happened, but come on man, it sounds like we are trying to buy our way out of the mess, which by the way was created by us. We apologized and thats all that Todd asked us to do and to clean up after ourselves in the future. I told Todd to bring an Application when he comes on Friday and I would join and pay my dues but if they dont want my money then I will gladly fly somewhere else. Dont make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I am down with your idea Raf.

Why complicate a simple problem with more than a simple solution? If you brought it to the field, take it with you when you leave! Anyone who can't handle that simple responsibility should not be allowed to use the facility.

David

Exactly Dave!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not true. Once again, you should check your facts. Doug & Dave Presta are the ones who quickly stepped up and negotiated getting a dumpster to try to take care of future trash issues, and THEY (not I) indicated to the club that the jet guys would take care of the cost. They planned to handle that by trying to get donations from all of us. While I personally don't know whether a dumpster is absolutely 100% necessary, I am grateful to Doug and Dave for showing leadership when the s**t first started to hit the fan, and quickly negotiating a solution - so I will happily support the aquistition of the dumpster.

My alternate membership suggestion is simply a way to collect that exact same money that was already promissed, in a way that doesn't leave the same small group of guys always coughing up the donations, or leave Dave / Doug out of pocket if they can't get anyone to cough up. The fact that you are arguing about finding a way to decrease your portion of the bill for the dumpster seems to support my position that not everyone will be equally eager to contribute funds voluntarily.

Fine - you don't have to pay attention to the larger picture if you don't want to ... but if you then go to overfly that molehill, and find yourself flying smack into a mountain, don't play the "Oh ... I didn't know card" like you already did with the "Quit trying to be my Mom, and don't try to tell me I can't drink at the field !!!" deal. Despite our numbers, we are still the outsiders at the club and we need to understand that we could easily find ourselves in a real mess if we don't adequately nurture our relationship with the club. Just ask any of the guys who have already lost access to a field, whether in retrospect they would have been willing to work a bit harder at trying to improve relations to help keep their field. I bet that most of them would have been willing to treat each and every molehill with respect befitting a mountain, if it would have helped preserve their access to their field. Unfortunately, all too many people don't care about such things until it is way too late.

Gordom

That has already been discussed with Todd and worked out Gordon. Relax, we are all aware of the rules and we are all ready to abide by them, but I see no need to join a club, pay dues and then ontop of that pay extra money to get in someones good graces. I think by joining and paying dues is more than enough. You can keep bringing up what happening and keep rehashing the past all you want, the rest of us have moved on and are ready to have a good time, within the rules of course.

I didn't mean to sound so flippant with my previous post.

The answer lies in the middle. We are responsible adults. Todd sent us the email. There was a problem at the field, make sure it doesn't happen again, dumpster or no.

Raf

I dont think it was flippant Rav, but you are right, what I have been saying all along, the problem has been addressed and rectified, no need for further discussion.

I agree with Gordon on this-I think it perfectly acceptable that the out of town members pay more in yearly dues-I personally would not have a problem paying more than double (and trust me I am on the low end of income scale in our group) The BARKS have been fantastic people, I have been a member for almost 3 years now and I probably dont get there more than 3 or 4 times a year but I would still not have a problem paying more in dues it is such a great place to fly.
Here is the reason- As OOT members we are not there at all the club activities, field days, meetings, ets. All those ancillary things that go on in a club that we do NOT participate in because we are OOT members and therefore just not there. Are we "buying" our way out of issues? probably yes, but I think it is the least that we can do.
Dumpster-dont know if it will end up being more of a pain than worth-Like I said early on in the other thread "pack it in -pack it out" works best (Kero cans included)-I will even supply the bags free for the "forgetful" ones. Scotty

Tell you what, guys. Bag your trash as you go and I'll run out there late afternoon Saturday or early Sunday with my 5x8 trailer. I'm fine with doing that as long as it's bagged and tied.

Just talked to the County - there is a transfer station a mile north of the town of Buttonwillow that's open until 4 on Sunday. I'll come out after church and make a trash run - bag it and tie it!

Ian - thank you very much for proving my original point - that if we rely on donations to pay for the dumpster, there will always be the same guys who shell out their cash voluntarily, while others refuse to put their hand in their wallet to help out (because "I already paid my dues", or similar such justification).

Trent - thank you very much for your very generous offer of help. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about when I mention how the local guys have repeatedly gone out of their way to help us out, and why I think we need to be equally willing to go out of our way to be members who are always welcome, rather than just the guys who take advantage of the fabulous hospitality. I will bring bags and ties, and take responsibility for handling trash up until I leave on Saturday evening. After that, someone else please step up to take over.

Gordon

I don't see what the big deal is???? A few extra bucks to have a med sized dumpster that gets emptied on a monthly or bi monthly basis would be sweet.... All I have to say is every time I show up the one trash can at the field is usually full of kero cans and or turbine related goodies.. We will talk to Todd B and the other powers that be this weekend... If a large dumpster is needed than I FOR ONE will gladly pitch in.. More than my share if need be... If you want to double the jet guys dues to $50 to cover the can and what not, than so be it.. How much do you pay yearly at your local clubs??? All the ones I belong to are a $150 ++++.... $50 is cheap!!!! For non-members who have used the field many times. It's time to cough it up without crying!!

DF

man, you guys are like a bunch of girls

anyways, I have been trying to get a dumpster. problem is, we are
on a county airport among other things. the sanitation people are worried
about no being around, the dumpster being trashed (hey, thats what its for)
etc etc.

so, the bag it and tie it will prolly be the best solution so far.

am still looking at other options, but for now, we will make sure there
are giant bags in the box where the frequancy pins are

For this time, let's just use my trailer. We can have an informal meeting at the field, and I'll take that to the club meeting later in the month.

Ahh... is THAT why you guys keep watching my rear when I bend over ? I must remember never to wear my kilt to the field.


Todd - thanks for the work that you and others have been putting into this on our behalf. Whatever seems to be the best solution as far as the club is concerned, I'll support 100%.

Gordon

I believe that our dues to this club are ridiculously low, for what we get, and have no problem paying more to improve the site. My issue is I simply do not understand how so many grown men carting around multi thousand dollar toys, cannot show a small amount of maturity and clean up after ourselves! If you had room in your vehicle to bring the kero and smoke cans out to the field, you obviously have the room to carry them back out with you. One or two trash bags stuffed in your back seat will hold any trash such as food wrappers, drink cans etc that you create at the field. When you get home drop the bags in your trash.

Had this simple etiquette been followed in the past we wouldn't even be having this discussion, and if people would agree to now accept this responsibility, this whole problem would be solved, and none of the local guys would have to go out of their way at all to fix our problem!

David

Guys, I understand both sides of this issue. Packing your trash out is the responsible thing to do, but putting a bag of two-day-old garbage in your car is sometimes a bit rank. It's pretty easy to run my trailer out there and drop it at the dump transfer station. Besides, it'd be nice to meet some of you face to face!

Agreed!

I dont think we need to talk about this anymore!

Just to clear a few things up, Gordon is correct, I did offer that I would gladly pay for a dumpster out of my own pocket for the club and take it upon myself to get donations from the jet guys if needed as a knee-jerk reaction to the mess we left last outing. When I told this to Todd he had mentioned that the club will talk about it(but thought it was needed), and if they decide to get one and they needed our (jet guy's) help then he would let me know. I stopped worrying about it and know that Todd or any other representative from the club would let me know if there was anything we can do. Todd was great to talk to and realized that we just stepped on our Duk, and knows we are usually very hospitable and take care of the field when we are there and when we leave. I still stand by my original offer to the club, and if they reach out I will take care of it, let you all know, and if anyone wants to help they can...Nobody is obligated, but since I opened my mouth I will follow through if needed.
Dave Searles and others have the correct solution, the same one that has always been in effect but forgot to practice (once), that is clean up after ourselves and continue to treat the place like it was our own.
Now please lets get back to all the blissful fun we are going to have with our overpriced hand warmers.

I will be down Friday morning before noon...........WHO'S WIT ME??????

You sure you want to do that?????

Which part?

Meet some of them thar foolios in person.......

IF I end up going then I will take home everything I bring out. I'm not big enough to police every one. Thank you for the offer Trent thats very generous but shouldn't be necessary.