This thread has served it's purpose

yes, they are paying less.
if they expect "at cost" purchasing ability, then, if they want to not be at risk, they should pay for the shipping insurance.

Hey,

I have a 'hookup' with my LHS because I used to work there and because I still steer business their way. Sometimes, I have to wait until after the 'real' customers are done or other little inconveniences, but I won't ever fix my mouth to complain about it because they're not making any money off of what they sell me. I'm grateful and make sure they know I'm grateful.

I've had some of those 'friend' customers before. It never works out well. You always end up living that old addage that "no good deed goes unpunished..."

Well, I don't know, I guess my question is, why weren't they insured? If the buyer (friend or otherwise) opts out of insurance, then it's not the shippers issue regardless of friend or customer. But if the shipper sends stuff uninsured because THEY choose to, then I think it's their issue again regardless of friend or customer.
Friend or otherwise, I would always ask if the buyer wants the shipment insured and make it clear that if it's not, and something happens, it's not the sellers fault. That's why insurance is there.

As a friend of many hobby store owners, I never expect (or really never ask for a special price) so when I am given one I am always very grateful, but I do always request for insured shipping if it's not something I can pick up myself.
As far as I'm concerned, UNLESS you requested to not insure the shipment, the seller (again, regardless of if you're friends or not) should be liable. As a business owner, he should automatically send insured and charge for it unless asked otherwise, it's the only way to avoid these issues.
Just my opinion.

I agree. Insurance was never talked about. He did say that he's had over 1000 packages sent and had never lost one.
Lest I be mistaken, vendors use discretion as to whom they extend special pricing and favors...and there is a reason usually. Rarely is it "somthin for nothin". It's always a two way street, lined with gratitude and integrity.

I am not sure I agree with the responses you have gotten.

I think the issue is whether the merchandise is normally insured or not and whether you knew it. If he told you he was not going to pay for insurance based on your friendly deal, then the loss is yours based on your willingness to except that risk in exchange for the lower price. But if he, as a normal business practice, does not insure his shipments and you as a buyer (with or without a discount) has a reasonable belief that shipping loss is the delivery company or seller's responsibility, (friendship aside) he is running the business and is deciding what risks he is willing to assume regardless of whether he is giving a discount, selling a discontinued item at a discount, getting returned merchandise, warranty claim, etc. Another words, if this was not a "friendship" discount but a discount based on a discontinued item or Black Friday sales price, would you be any less entitled to think that any shipping loss was going to be "split" between the two of you?

Whether or not I am getting a friendship deal, dealer discount, close-out bargin, etc., I believe any shipping loss is between the seller (friend or not) and the shipper he uses UNLESS I am told that any possible shipping loss is mine. Regardless of the discount, you didn't get the merchandise you paid for. Unless you, the buyer, knew and accepted that risk, that's the seller's cost of being in business if he elects not to insure his shipments and he doesn't inform the buyer it is buyer's responsibility.

I know where your friend is coming from...he probably doesn't insure his shipments and at the discount he sold it to you for, having to replace the merchandise would cause him a loss unless you shared in that loss. But you didn't get what you did pay for and if he didn't tell you shipping loss was your responsibility....bummer.

I ALWAYS verify who is responsible for any loss when I return merchandise but I assume the original shipment is the seller's responsibility.

However...ultimately you have to decide what the "friendship" is worth as well.

"Whether or not I am getting a friendship deal, dealer discount, close-out bargin, etc., I believe any shipping loss is between the seller (friend or not) and the shipper he uses UNLESS I am told that any possible shipping loss is mine. Regardless of the discount, you didn't get the merchandise you paid for. Unless you, the buyer, knew and accepted that risk, that's the seller's cost of being in business if he elects not to insure his shipments and he doesn't inform the buyer it is buyer's responsibility. "

BINGO.

If you knew he was sending it uninsured then I say thats down to you assuming you are sure he sent it. I take you paid for the stuff before it was sent so you should have known how it was going to be delivered?

I get a UK retailer to send me my stuff in normal post because I can trust the post and I can trust him to send the stuff. If it goes missing then that retailer knows I'll take the hit.

jason

Sounds to me you are not best friends...

I feel that if the retailer sent it uninsured without your consent then it is definitely on him, that would only make sense. But if you gave consent to waive the insurance then it is on you.

I buy stuff all the time from various retailers that ship stuff via USPS priority mail - Todds Models, Dreamworks, Tower Hobby, Troybuilt, etc.

I do not recall specifically being offered to purchase insurance during checkout by any of them. Nor do I recall any of them informing me that I was assuming risk of loss or damage. I have always assumed that they bore the risk until it gets to my door.

I am not saying I was right to make that assumption, but that is what I assumed.

As a retailer, you'd be mental not to put tracking and insurance on a $600 box...
Everything we ship is recorded, from 100grms to 50kg, its just worth the agro to send stuff any other way.

Let's turn this completely around.

Let's say, that based upon your friendship, he sends you the merchandise FIRST, expecting payment later, and that you are paying RETAIL.

Furthermore, let's say you send him CASH via whatever shipper is relevant in this example.

When the shipper fails to deliver the envelope containing the cash, does the seller have have a right to ask you to pay again? (You bet your sweet ***** he does !!)

And if you then reply "Dude, if you were giving me this at cost, you might have a complaint, but since you were trying to make a profit off of me, this is your problem and not mine. You can't have it both ways, either I am your customer or your friend !!", would that fly? (HELL no !!)

In the end, your friend meant well, but he screwed up.

As YOUR FRIEND, he should never have gambled with your $$ by skipping the insurance, but HE MEANT WELL, mistakes happen and lessons are learned. His logic is hogwash, but he did meet you half way, and I think that as HIS FRIEND, you should gratefully let him off of the hook for the rest.

Make nice-nice, send him a gift card to his wife's fave store, and be grateful that you HAVE a friend in the retail side of the hobby.

Then let it go, dude. Right now ur each understanably focused on the $$, but I promise you, that's not important in the long run.

Technically, the goods are not YOURS until you recieve it. If you put it on a credit card they will reverse the charges. Shame on the shipper if he didn't get a tracking number and require a signed reciept AND insure it. Friendship has nothing to do with it.

Tru Dat.

He's taking a loss and so are you. It seems that you are both compromising in this crappy situation.

Thanks for bringing this up so we can all be better to each other.

Remember:

NICE MATTERS

Raf

I frequently order goods without insurance if signature is required for delivery ; however, I knowingly make that decision, assume that risk, and absolve the shipper of responsibility as long as they can show that goods were in fact shipped.

If I didn't personally waive the insurance etc., then I would expect the seller to resolve the problem.

With that said however, in a case like this I personally would have sat back and thought long and hard about making a fuss about it. If you truly were getting the goods at cost, then that is a pretty substantial saving. Making a fuss about this issue would seem to gaurantee that you will not be getting that discount in future, so I would have looked at it in terms of "is it worth it to eat the $300 (or even the full $600) loss in order to safeguard my future discounts" ? I might have simply accepted the loss and asked the friend to insure all future shipments, because the 'friend discount' could save me WAAAAY more than that in the long run.

Gordon

If he ain't gonna make it good, I would just go beat the crap out of him... and tell him that was the friend not the customer that whipped his *****$..[X(]


Danno

I suspect we may not know ALL the details...if the seller's margin was 50% and sold it at his cost, and the buyer's only other option was to pay full retail, then it was a break even conclusion in which case, out of friendship, I won't have posted my complaint on RCU. The seller screwed-up and should have covered his risk by including the shipping insurance in the price...no one gets hurt and the friendship remains in tack.

Perhaps the solution is to be proactive . Next time you order , take the responsibility to define the terms . If you want insurance ask for it . How about asking for the friend discount but paying for the insurance youself . Otherwise You may run the risk of becoming a proffessional victum .

The solution........tell him he's full of it and then apologoize and accept all responsibility for this event and all future events...just like you do with your wife.

George

Business is one thing and friendship another one. We should not take advance of this by mixing both. This may be only a misunderstanding between two friends. The issue here is that $$$ is on the line. And sadly $$$ had ruin a lot of good family relations. We see it all the time. I wish you both to solve this in a friendly manner and let the friendship win. Next time discuss all the terms in advance to avoid unpleasant situations. Good luck.

Until you receive the goods thay are not yours, and the merchant has your monies for goods you have not received, therefore just ask the merchant when he is going to send them, if he says he has sent them and you do not receive the merchandise within a resonable time, it has nothing to do with you, it is between the merchant and the courier service he used, ask for you monies back with a polite letter, if its not in writting it was not said.

I never deal with friends or buy off them anymore.

Mike

Steve,
Did you receive a tracking number, maybe items were never really shipped, either way, anytime shipping anything the shipper should ask the buyer friend or not would you like to have insurance and how much coverage, I am sure you paid for the shipping. I think he should replace it all, he knows better to insure it.
Joe C!!

In my personal opinion if I have a friend that has a bussiness and lives from it I will actually try to help him and pay full price or maybe a reasonable discount but never dealer price. Friends are to help friends... But maybe that is just me I guess... I try not to ask for discounts from friends, less from a $600 dollar bill...

If it is just business try to get the best price you can get, that is just business...

In terms of a refund, that should be between your friend and you, by going this way (RCU) your friendship will probably end very fast... Too much coments when the final desition should be only yours and what your morals say...

Michel

Hey Fity who cares get over it and delete this thread.

Andrew