junktacular
01-29-2010 | 09:50 PM
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junktacular
Hey guys, getting into jets. Been flying helis forever and have plenty experience with tail draggers, but not much in the way of slippery airframes. Any good 'jet trainers' on for reasonable price?I was thinking a tricycle gear pattern ship or pylon racer something like that. I saw this and wonder if this might be a good start?http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...LXYSU1&P=0 Thanks for any models suggested 
Well, this is how it started, bought a second hand jet on here and scroll down to see how that turned out.
Well, this is how it started, bought a second hand jet on here and scroll down to see how that turned out.
01-29-2010 | 10:39 PM
#2
RE: junktacular
I wouldn't consider that Tower Hobby plane to be a jet trainer.
A good 'trainer for jets' is something heavy (high wing loading) and fast. That little electric plane will not even come close to the skill required to operate jets safely.
A large nitro powered warbird is the caliber of plane to 'train' for jets.
A good 'trainer for jets' is something heavy (high wing loading) and fast. That little electric plane will not even come close to the skill required to operate jets safely.
A large nitro powered warbird is the caliber of plane to 'train' for jets.
01-29-2010 | 11:15 PM
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RE: junktacular
Thanks for the tip. Forgot about the high wing loading part, I was at first concerned about pilot a aircraft that is much slipperier than my previous experience with aerobat planes.
I really like the look of this plane and wonder if it might be decent.http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...mp;ProdID=5825
I could maybe load on some extra weight to get used to the plane with a higher wing loading gradually.
To tell you the truth, I'm really not into old aircraft and a warbird is just not really my type, so I'm trying to keep it something sleek and newer.
I really like the look of this plane and wonder if it might be decent.http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...mp;ProdID=5825
I could maybe load on some extra weight to get used to the plane with a higher wing loading gradually.
To tell you the truth, I'm really not into old aircraft and a warbird is just not really my type, so I'm trying to keep it something sleek and newer.
01-29-2010 | 11:33 PM
#5
RE: junktacular
ORIGINAL: causeitflies
Depends on the type of jet you want to fly, foamie, scale EDF, or turbine etc...
Depends on the type of jet you want to fly, foamie, scale EDF, or turbine etc...
01-30-2010 | 04:27 AM
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RE: junktacular
What better than a scale jet trainer.....
Just finishing this one myself for sport flying, its a 1/5 scale KMP ARF PC-21 scale jet trainer, AUW will be approx 16 lb. I have made a few hardware and linkage upgrades over the stock version as I wanted to power it with a larger Moki 2.1 for some serious "jet like" performance. The recommended power is actually 1.50- 1.80 four strokes. I reckon the KMP PC-21 may prove to be an ideal stepping stone for many coming into jets looking to get some stick time on a prop model that finally offers some real fast jet similarities...
http://www.kmp.ca/product_info.php?c...4bf7396b848898
Heres a cool video of the PC-21 with a performance electric power setup. The potential as a serious "prop" jet trainer is well demonstrated...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjRPe_8NNjA[/youtube]
Cheers- Marty
Just finishing this one myself for sport flying, its a 1/5 scale KMP ARF PC-21 scale jet trainer, AUW will be approx 16 lb. I have made a few hardware and linkage upgrades over the stock version as I wanted to power it with a larger Moki 2.1 for some serious "jet like" performance. The recommended power is actually 1.50- 1.80 four strokes. I reckon the KMP PC-21 may prove to be an ideal stepping stone for many coming into jets looking to get some stick time on a prop model that finally offers some real fast jet similarities...
http://www.kmp.ca/product_info.php?c...4bf7396b848898
Heres a cool video of the PC-21 with a performance electric power setup. The potential as a serious "prop" jet trainer is well demonstrated...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjRPe_8NNjA[/youtube]
Cheers- Marty
01-30-2010 | 04:36 AM
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RE: junktacular
Oh Hi Dave. I've seen you and your son fly all the time at the field, I fly mostly helis with Alan Sr Chung ken ect. I flew one of my friends CAIRaptor years ago and it was a blast. Never did land it though, so I have zero jet landing experience. It's going to be some time before I get the jet in the air, don't have the turbine yet, but I'm not going to rush it cause its just more enjoyable that way for me right now, I'm just learning as much as I can.
Been flying helis for 15+years and looking for a change and finally all the variables are looking right for me to be able to get into the jet world comfortably. I got a CAIRazor cause I've always loved the lines on that plane. It's probably not a great slow flier which I feel I can handle fine, but I was looking for 'cheap' big heavy sleek plane to put in the air to gain some experience. I'm pretty confident in my skills, just a little affirmation would be nice.
I've been wanting to talk to you for quite some time, but I guess I just didn't want to just jump in just yet because I didn't know if I was very serious until a few weeks ago.
Been flying helis for 15+years and looking for a change and finally all the variables are looking right for me to be able to get into the jet world comfortably. I got a CAIRazor cause I've always loved the lines on that plane. It's probably not a great slow flier which I feel I can handle fine, but I was looking for 'cheap' big heavy sleek plane to put in the air to gain some experience. I'm pretty confident in my skills, just a little affirmation would be nice.
I've been wanting to talk to you for quite some time, but I guess I just didn't want to just jump in just yet because I didn't know if I was very serious until a few weeks ago.
01-30-2010 | 01:29 PM
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RE: junktacular
Been flying helis for 15+ years and looking for a change and finally all the variables are looking right for me to be able to get into the jet world comfortably.
Anyway, you are welcome to pick our brains anytime. If we can be of any help to you please just walk up and ask. The more jet pilots at Sam Boyd, the better!
01-30-2010 | 01:47 PM
#12
RE: junktacular
Why not try the Falcon 120, its designed as a pusher prop airframe, but there is a thread on RCU about converting it too turbine use, I think it is mistakenly listed under Bobcat because of some Chinese influence and naming at some time.
Mike
Mike
01-30-2010 | 02:10 PM
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01-30-2010 | 02:34 PM
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RE: junktacular
Thanks SJN, I have one of those planes in my food pantry, just haven't put it together yet!LOL 
Thanks for the invitation Dave. I'm still waiting on the jet, should be here next week. If you're out at the field next weekend maybe I can stop by and you can look at it?Here is the jet, these are pics from the seller. The paint scheme seems to be classic CAI stuff. I'm still debating on whether I'm gonna keep it like that or completely repaint it. My wife works at a graphics shop with a full paint booth and they could repaint it for little to nothing, so its a option I'm thinking much more bright and vibrant colors.
Thanks for the link on that plane mugenkidd, looks pretty nice.I'm interested.
Thanks for the invitation Dave. I'm still waiting on the jet, should be here next week. If you're out at the field next weekend maybe I can stop by and you can look at it?Here is the jet, these are pics from the seller. The paint scheme seems to be classic CAI stuff. I'm still debating on whether I'm gonna keep it like that or completely repaint it. My wife works at a graphics shop with a full paint booth and they could repaint it for little to nothing, so its a option
I'm thinking much more bright and vibrant colors.Thanks for the link on that plane mugenkidd, looks pretty nice.I'm interested.
01-30-2010 | 02:46 PM
#15
RE: junktacular
hehe....sorry could not resist posting it
This thing tought me to to fly fast, and land fast like a jet.
The weston Magnum.
You can get a plane and engine combo that just screams.
http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_103.htm
This thing tought me to to fly fast, and land fast like a jet.
The weston Magnum.
You can get a plane and engine combo that just screams.
http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_103.htm
01-30-2010 | 04:27 PM
#16
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RE: junktacular
jet trainer?? jet exposure most certainly!!!! that thing hauls the chili
ORIGINAL: SJN
hehe....sorry could not resist posting it
This thing tought me to to fly fast, and land fast like a jet.
The weston Magnum.
You can get a plane and engine combo that just screams.
http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_103.htm
hehe....sorry could not resist posting it
This thing tought me to to fly fast, and land fast like a jet.
The weston Magnum.
You can get a plane and engine combo that just screams.
http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_103.htm
01-30-2010 | 06:10 PM
#17
RE: junktacular
ORIGINAL: SJN
hehe....sorry could not resist posting it
This thing tought me to to fly fast, and land fast like a jet.
The weston Magnum.
You can get a plane and engine combo that just screams.
http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_103.htm
hehe....sorry could not resist posting it
This thing tought me to to fly fast, and land fast like a jet.
The weston Magnum.
You can get a plane and engine combo that just screams.
http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_103.htm
Mike
01-30-2010 | 06:23 PM
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RE: junktacular
I've been getting some pms from members with tips and stuff, THANKSGUYS!
So right now, I'm looking at changing up the airframe to get it lighter as the general consensus is the airframe is a little on the heavy side and glides like a brick. Ido like hearing how everyone tells me it flies really great though, very smooth, fast and 'on rails'.
My ideas are to remove the unnecessary wing tip boat anchors. I'll also be stripping the heavy paint and redoing it as light as possible. Will be remaking any hatches out of carbon fiber. Also, doing any other weight savings where possible without compromising strength. I'm so loving this right now, I didn't even go out and fly my heli today because I've just been studying and reading about everything. Lol, poor heli.
So right now, I'm looking at changing up the airframe to get it lighter as the general consensus is the airframe is a little on the heavy side and glides like a brick. Ido like hearing how everyone tells me it flies really great though, very smooth, fast and 'on rails'.
My ideas are to remove the unnecessary wing tip boat anchors. I'll also be stripping the heavy paint and redoing it as light as possible. Will be remaking any hatches out of carbon fiber. Also, doing any other weight savings where possible without compromising strength. I'm so loving this right now, I didn't even go out and fly my heli today because I've just been studying and reading about everything. Lol, poor heli.
02-05-2010 | 02:07 AM
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RE: junktacular
So I got the jet and its well mostly junk, definitely not anywhere near RTFand carrying a turbine! It in fact would be DANGEROUSto me and spectators to do so.Ghetto mods galore, I was fooled by the pretty paint and pictures strategically not showing damage and shoddy work, this is gonna take a lot of time and money to fix to make worthy to carry a turbine. The previous owner who never flew it is saying I'm crazy and a bad guy, no wonder he never put a turbine into this thing and flew it after owning it for over a year. He's crying I didn't call him before posting him a poor rating, I didn't want to call him after fuming over it as I went deeper and deeper over it.
You should see how many types of bolts are holding on the landing gear break away panels, a socket head here, and flat there and cracked thing there. amazing he called it, RTF. The rear tail feather is cracked and please tell me you see this as holding up during one flight, even after a fix, it is very structurally damaged and suspect under hard flying which I 100% intend to do. It's a joke man, Looks like it was built beautiful and then gotten a hold of by a yahoo and fubared and then rebuilt to their 'gold standard' omg, what a joke.
Pictures are in the next post, you make your decision on how you would feel of this 'beautiful' jet and plunking down $1500 for it, then being told its 'ready to fly'. Lol, how would u feel about putting your $2K+turbine in this thing!I expected to do some minor work, but what the heck, I have foamies that I'd rather put my turbine on than this.
You should see how many types of bolts are holding on the landing gear break away panels, a socket head here, and flat there and cracked thing there. amazing he called it, RTF. The rear tail feather is cracked and please tell me you see this as holding up during one flight, even after a fix, it is very structurally damaged and suspect under hard flying which I 100% intend to do. It's a joke man, Looks like it was built beautiful and then gotten a hold of by a yahoo and fubared and then rebuilt to their 'gold standard' omg, what a joke.
Pictures are in the next post, you make your decision on how you would feel of this 'beautiful' jet and plunking down $1500 for it, then being told its 'ready to fly'. Lol, how would u feel about putting your $2K+turbine in this thing!I expected to do some minor work, but what the heck, I have foamies that I'd rather put my turbine on than this.
02-05-2010 | 02:30 AM
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RE: junktacular
Hmm, looks like a junk drawer extravaganza
Sweet, I could see this tail feather flying off in flight.
Check out that quality work right there, WOW
Cool, non-matching wheels, I thought only Honda rice burners had that style!
There is more, but I didn't feel like uploading them all, this was enough to get me nice and fed up. I wouldn't of have had to post this if the seller would've just manned up and taken his poor rating like he deserved without bashing me like I don't know what I'm talking about. Get lost buddy, enjoy that new turbine of yours!
Sweet, I could see this tail feather flying off in flight.
Check out that quality work right there, WOW
Cool, non-matching wheels, I thought only Honda rice burners had that style!
There is more, but I didn't feel like uploading them all, this was enough to get me nice and fed up. I wouldn't of have had to post this if the seller would've just manned up and taken his poor rating like he deserved without bashing me like I don't know what I'm talking about. Get lost buddy, enjoy that new turbine of yours!
02-05-2010 | 12:07 PM
#21
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RE: junktacular
The crack sucks, but it seems to me that brass tube soldered to the strut like that is how it came from CAI, I think my old Razor and my Raptor are like that. As for the differences in bolts, change them, use the carbon flex plates or make new ones out of 1/4" plywood, the plastic CAI ones suck to begin with. Before i sold my Razor I made some gear plates for the new owner out of 1/4 ply with carbon laminated to one surface. They'll hold up better than the plastic ones.
As for the hatches and such, both my razor and raptor have hatches that over the years have bulged, gear doors don't fit anymore, it's not the builders fault, the stupid parts just warp over time, how that happens when they're fiberglass I don't know, although all the servo covers are plastic, go figure.
It looks like your Razor must have been the Sport version with the balsa/foam wing and tail, mine was the all composite version which is much stronger, but also heavier. I don't know how heavy yours is, but it seems to me the razor with engine was around 23 or 24lbs RTF. It's not a light airplane to start with.
I sold mine for $2000 with an AMT Mercury!
Of course you've only posted a few pictures of yours, but from what I see, it doesn't look unusable, maybe a little slapped back together, but like I say, I think the struts were done like that from CAI, and the glennis wheels, well, they look like crap on my Raptor and on my old Razor too. I was never a fan of those wheels.
As for gear flex plates, if you want new carbon fiber ones, Dan at Details for Scale I believe has them.
As for the hatches and such, both my razor and raptor have hatches that over the years have bulged, gear doors don't fit anymore, it's not the builders fault, the stupid parts just warp over time, how that happens when they're fiberglass I don't know, although all the servo covers are plastic, go figure.
It looks like your Razor must have been the Sport version with the balsa/foam wing and tail, mine was the all composite version which is much stronger, but also heavier. I don't know how heavy yours is, but it seems to me the razor with engine was around 23 or 24lbs RTF. It's not a light airplane to start with.
I sold mine for $2000 with an AMT Mercury!
Of course you've only posted a few pictures of yours, but from what I see, it doesn't look unusable, maybe a little slapped back together, but like I say, I think the struts were done like that from CAI, and the glennis wheels, well, they look like crap on my Raptor and on my old Razor too. I was never a fan of those wheels.
As for gear flex plates, if you want new carbon fiber ones, Dan at Details for Scale I believe has them.
02-05-2010 | 12:20 PM
#22
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RE: junktacular
Hmmmmmmmmm, the ad was very clear, at least the way I read it
"A jet that needed some TLC"...if you wanted a new Chinese ARF you should have purchase a new one... IMHO
Here is a copy of the Ad
"A jet that needed some TLC"...if you wanted a new Chinese ARF you should have purchase a new one... IMHO
Here is a copy of the Ad
RAZOR By CAI. $1500 ARF, crated and shipped in USA Add reciever, turbine (12 to 20lb class), and batteries. Selling to help fund a new turbine. Hate to sell this one, it is a head turner, and was beautifly built. I can almost bet you...It will be FAST! This was purchased last summer off RCU. It had a off stip landing that hurt the gears and left dings on leading edges. As you can see the damage has been repaired to the best I can do without a total repainting of the ship. This is still a beautiful ship with hundreds of potential flights left. Comes with all servo's ( I can not list the #'s) mostly coreless JR's on flight surfaces. Has new robart struts on mains, I think the brakes are CJM's, Three tanks 76 oz of fuel, new gear doors, UP door sequencer, BVM quick disconnects for air lines, all air lines passed 120 lb test, bypass and dual wall exhaust pipe, and complete Custom carry bags. Tip tanks are removable for transport in bags. If you look close, the pictures show some of the repaired and paint touch ups. The main flaws are a stress crack on the nose in front of the nose gear mount, stress cracks arround the Main gear mounts. It was painted with base coat clear coat and repaired with the same. It has Pro Mark decals with pannel lines and rivets. The asking price is to ship Greyhound anywhere in USA. I would hesitate to ship outside of USA, but will be willing to talk about it for a better price. I want to make this clear, this is a great looking ship, however, up close, you can see the repairs, from only a few feet away they do not show. It is a used airplane, and I have not flown it. You will need to go over all of the systems to make sure they are flight ready and pass your own inspections.
02-05-2010 | 12:23 PM
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RE: junktacular
Raps,
That does suck, I know the feeling. I got took on my NEW F-18 in a trade for a "new" viper jet...Lets just say you should not buy anything from Latrobe, PA...
Anyway, all things can be fixed. It sucks that you have to start out this way....what can I do to help you get going in the right direction?
That does suck, I know the feeling. I got took on my NEW F-18 in a trade for a "new" viper jet...Lets just say you should not buy anything from Latrobe, PA...
Anyway, all things can be fixed. It sucks that you have to start out this way....what can I do to help you get going in the right direction?
02-05-2010 | 02:34 PM
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RE: junktacular
Thanks for the offer Dave. At this point, looks like I've got my work cut out for me, this plane definitely has more than just "It had a off stip landing that hurt the gears and left dings on leading edges." If you are at the field this weekend I can come by and show you the plane, maybe give me some ideas of what to do, either keep it as a expensive big static model or if its salvageable to fly and worthy to hold a nice Wren SS.As far as the landing gear door thingies on there, I remember oogling over my friends Razor years ago and never saw anything like that on the gears. The big point here is the plane was advertised as RTF, yet as you can see, this plane has more than minor problems and is not safe to fly. Another expensive lesson. I bought the RTFTWM Tucano from here as my 'trianer'. I am hoping this one is truly RTF. If not I'm going to be resigned to NEVERbuy from here again. I will post back with the results of this next buy when I receive it next week.
02-05-2010 | 06:49 PM
#25
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RE: junktacular
Rapstaps,
I looked at my Raptor today and the gear are the same. The seller said in his ad that it was new struts so they've obviously soldered the brass tube on themselves, but honestly, they look better than my original CAI ones, the only difference is when they came from CAI they were painted so they look prettier.
As for whatever other damage is on your plane, well, no comments can be made without seeing pictures but mismatched bolts don't make it a piece of crap, it's just bolts. I'd be interested to see other pictures of it.
I looked at my Raptor today and the gear are the same. The seller said in his ad that it was new struts so they've obviously soldered the brass tube on themselves, but honestly, they look better than my original CAI ones, the only difference is when they came from CAI they were painted so they look prettier.
As for whatever other damage is on your plane, well, no comments can be made without seeing pictures but mismatched bolts don't make it a piece of crap, it's just bolts. I'd be interested to see other pictures of it.
