RCU Forums - Reno crash

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ORIGINAL: rcjets_63

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ORIGINAL: Ayrtonsenna
So having a 74 year old at the stick of a 500mph Aircraft pulling up to 6 Gs at the public event a good idea

Yes, I'm sure the media/lawyers/regulators will be all over that one.

More than a few years back, myself, a buddy, and his father attended a small airshow which was featuring WWII heavy metal. Having grown up in the jet age, I was excited at the prospect of seeing/hearing Mustangs and Corsairs doing low passes. The Mustang pilots were in their 60's and this seemed to greatly upset my buddy's father who flew Spitfires and Tempest V's in WWII. I asked him why he was upset and he told me that these planes are a handful. As a 21 year old combat pilot in the peak of physical condition he found that, upon returning to duty after taking a 3-day pass to London, he'd have lost his ''edge'' and was borderline unsafe in one of these planes. Unfortunately, his concerns proved to be an omen as a Mustang crashed during the show.

I'm not suggesting that age had anything to do with this crash in Reno. The race pilot was an accomplished aviator and, I'm sure, an excellent pilot. Time, however, gets hold of us all. [:o]

Jim

I don't know Jim, The guy flying this Mustang is fairly old. He doesn't look very stressed out flying it. In fact, he looked totally relaxed after both flights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-iulkSsj1I&feature=player_embedded#!

Excellent point.

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ORIGINAL: bevar

This crash is a perfect example of why there should be no maidens done at shows during regular hours.

Beave

Hey everyone...Shaun and myself are cool. We spoke today....we are and will remain friends. And yes, I was referring to the end of the world in 2012. The bunker built to be built by the porn industry sounds like an interesting place to ride out the carnage. Wonder if it will be a kit bunker or ARF.

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ORIGINAL: tp777fo

Hey everyone...Shaun and myself are cool. We spoke today....we are and will remain friends. And yes, I was referring to the end of the world in 2012. The bunker built to be built by the porn industry sounds like an interesting place to ride out the carnage. Wonder if it will be a kit bunker or ARF.

LOL!!!!

You're a class-act, Tom. Thanks.

Just picked up on this story, been out of reach of news.
This is a tragic event, terrible...very sad indeed....

PG

Jim, Raced this plane last year and at times was turning laps over 500mph. After he got the lead he would slow down and just pace the field. He had a bad time in time trials last year and had to race his way into the Gold race. The Ghost was flight tested in race condition.

3rd class, but lots of it!

My thoughts are with those lost in this plane crash, and their loved ones.

I hope, and pray,, that those of you reading this realize that YOUR rc aircraft can do the same amount of damage in any given situation.

A minute of silence is due for those gone.

And fellow RC pilots lets fly safe!

Jeff

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there's already people in here saying what caused the crash .now is not when we should speculate on such things.and to add to it some think air racing should be banned.the tradegy was that 9 people died and scores got injured.I am sure the pilot was horrified out of his mind as that plane hurtled into the pit.imgaine how much worse if it had slammed into the bleachers.no one went to reno that day expecting a crash ,right now I feel for all the victums and what the losses mean to familes and relatives.air racing is dangerous just as formula one or hydroplane boat racing.these pilots knowingly take such risks that can end their lives in an instant and given options every pilot would sacrifice his life to prevent killing spectators in the process.

over the months ahead experts will subsequently learn what caused the trim tab to separate from the fusealage and a reivew of spectator seating etc will be performed.until that time our prayers are with all those who suffered..

Another thing worth noting is that, at least prior to impact, the tail wheel is extended.

Unfortunately, today I head there was another airshow crash here in USA, somewhere on the east coast. I think the NTSB needs to revamp the regulations before anyone else dies or gets injured.

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ORIGINAL: rcand

Unfortunately, today I head there was another airshow crash here in USA, somewhere on the east coast. I think the NTSB needs to revamp the regulations before anyone else dies or gets injured.

here we go again.. Lets just gives us more rules to live by in this day and age. :eek:

Shawn,

I'd love to come out but at the moment I'm loading up for Super Jets South and can't do both back to back.

Joe says I have to come out next year so I guess it will be then!

Have fun!

Beave

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ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Beave,

You're not getting old! Well, you MAY be, but your read on 2012 seems right on.... You coming to BITW?

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ORIGINAL: cloudancer03

.the tradegy was that 9 people died and scores got injured.

That number may climb to 11 victims, there is a retired couple missing from the show. The missing couple was in the box seat impact area.

Link with vid..
http://www.kirotv.com/news/29221836/...ihJYY.facebook

** I took this link from the Warbird section here on RCU.**

Boli, Good luck and have fun at SJS! [8D]

My bet is that in order to keep this event going after this tragedy, they will be forced to move the spectators further away from the action. I'm not saying I would be for or against this. Just that it will probably happen.

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ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews

My bet is that in order to keep this event going after this tragedy, they will be forced to move the spectators further away from the action. I'm not saying I would be for or against this. Just that it will probably happen.

They can't move the crowed, they would have to move the pylons further out. I have been there several times. I make a spinner that they use on several of the Seafury's. I was going this year and had to cancel a few days ago because of work. Guess I was lucky something came up! Thought are with everyone affected!

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The NTSB doesn't make regulations, only recommends them to the FAA...

Bob

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ORIGINAL: rhklenke

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The NTSB doesn't make regulations, only recommends them to the FAA...

Bob

Yes. That and people need to realize that going to an airshow (and especially an air race) entails assuming a certain amount of risk. You are very close to thousands of pounds of metal flying at 400 miles per hour. There is no way to make that inherently safe.

I witnessed three other incidents similar to this one. They all had three things in common the failures happened on the home stretch or just after turn 1. they only happened after completing at least one turn on the course and after the last pylon, turning onto show center. Intresting this is descibed as the hardest corner. finally they all lost the trim tab. Voodoo, one of the yaks, and dont forget Miss ashleyII. The determination was that the trim tab was the likely cause of the flutter resulting in the horizontal tail departure and resulting crash for Miss Ashley. One solution might be To change the shape of the course to reduce the g load in the corner (S). Just a thought
Tighe

I also agree that if you buy the ticket you assume the risk. Provide no direct maliance. why is everyone trying to save each other from themselves.

I love the Reno races. This is very sad. In the past, they have had difficulty locating underwriters to insure the races. After the number of lawsuits likely to come from this incident, we might be out of luck for future underwriters. I hope not. The crowd is generally true aviation enthusiasts. But many were seriously injured and could face substantial lifetime expenses.

Lets hope everyone recovers quickly that survived. And lets hope the folks that lost family will heal and find peace. We are, after all, part of the same aviation family. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all of those affected by the crash.

Pilofighter i agree and while my statement stems from the frustration of so much regulation over everything in our live by no mean do i mean disgrase to the hurt or deceased.
I started flying when i was 11, the Air races really developed my passion for avaiton. I am teriffied that this will be the lose of it for generations to come. Unfortunatly accdidents happen. we dont get to chose. and true accident ar unpreventable

This accident is obviously attracting a lot of interest on the internet and heres one from Prune which makes real sense :

"First I'd like to say how badly I feel that spectators were injured and killed in this accident. As someone who barely escaped a similar fate at Flugtag '88 and saw my share of disturbing sights, I have nothing but sympathy for all those affected.

That said, I have an interest in analyzing and understanding the events that take place in aviation and this event is no exception. As a pilot, aviation mechanic and long time race fan who has attended 15 of the last 20 race years, I have more than a passing interest in this accident. To the "don't speculate, wait for the report" gang: Sorry, no dice. Well reasoned discussion of a technical nature is a different thing than wild uninformed speculation. Trouble is, only technically savvy people with good reasoning skills seem to recognize the difference!

My own analysis of the information available to me as of this date comes with the proviso that it is only a working theory and subject to modification by new facts or correction of any flawed theories or assumptions. We're not gonna hear much substantial analysis from the NTSB for quite some time. Consequently, I feel that some reasonable speculation among the more informed participants having a factual and/or supportable theoretical basis for their ideas is more constructive than might otherwise be proffered if these ideas were not offered for the purposes of discussion. So here goes my take on what's apparent so far:

Photos indicate that the trim tab on the left elevator became partially detached then departed the aircraft at some point in the sequence of events. It is logical to presume that the detachment of the trim tab would cause a significant change in elevator hinge moments and therefore the elevator control forces.

At very high airspeed, the trim would typically be adjusted pretty far in the nose down (tab T/E up) direction to counter the airplane's natural nose up tendency with increased airspeed. Removal of the trim tab induced force about the elevator hinge point would result in a significant change in the control force required to hold the elevator in the desired position. I would expect that an immediate and strong elevator trailing edge up (stick back) force would result from the loss of the trim tab under this condition of high speed flight.

When added to any force already applied, the gees could reasonably be expected to build faster than the human can react to apply forward stick before the onset of gee induced loss of consciousness. (As happened to Hannah in '98) What video of the sequence I've seen appears to indicate a rapid upward change in flight path somewhere west of the pits approaching the home pylon. At 500 mph, that rate of angular change certainly appears to me to be indicative of some pretty high "G" forces. Why Hannah's plane continued skyward and Leeward's rolled into a dive is open to conjecture, but that's the difference in outcomes it seems.

The video and still images seen so far appear to support the theory that the pilot was rendered unconscious during the pullup and exerted no control after that. Had the airplane not been rolling as well as pitching, there might have been more time for a recovery such as Bob Hannah's, but we'll never know.

I'll be interested to see if the NTSB opens a public docket so we can access some of the investigative work product prior to release of the final report as has been the case in many major accidents. The possibility that they may have some recorded flight parameters is intriguing will hopefully include good time reference, attitude and/or accelerometer data."

Fatfreddy17 also makes a very good point on RCU, OUR jets have the potential to cause enormous damage or injury and whilst MOST operators give safety a very high priority some just don't seem to get it that safety is an essential and integral part of ALL aviation activity, model jets included. Do we pay enough attention to safety here on RCU ? Well, there's not been a single post on the Safety Matters thread for over 15 months, not one !

Perhaps Reno could, should also be a "headsup" for us, too !

Regards,

David Gladwin.

CNN.com today provided some updated information regarding the Reno crash.

NTSB board member Mark Rosekind, PHD (some of you might be familiar with his work in pilot fatigue research) announced that a telemetry system was installed aboard the accident aircraft and that NTSB personnel have been provided with the received data stored by the ground crew. Information regarding which specific parameters were recorded was not detailed in the briefing. A video cam was also installed. Multiple data memory cards were recovered from the wreckage and sent to the NTSB lab for analysis. The origin of these memory cards is unknown. Some may be from devices carried by spectators.

Rosekind was also quoted as saying that no mayday call was received from Leeward.

Parts of the tail section have been recovered including the detached trim tab.

It was also noted that a tremendous amount of video has been provided for investigators for analyze.

Analysis to follow.

Wow cant imagine looking up to see a plane coming straight at you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIU_Y06A9U&feature=player_embedded#!