RE: Wasp update
 

i know he's still waiting for the new turbines.
he has a stock of about 20 engines ready for assembly, once the turbines arrive he'll be testing the new mods by running at full throttle for a couple of gallons of fuel then dismantling them and checking for any problems.

RE: Wasp update
 

I am a bit concerned about some recent references here, to the effect that Phill Heward "Falsely winning the gtba comp" Ie. Phill somehow fixed the GTBA Efficiency competition results!

To clarify:

The tests are independent, unbiased tests where the engine is not currently examined or scrutinised in any way, shape or form. RPM for each run is decided by the owner/operator. Winning either category doesn't give indication or presumptions of build quality, or engine reliability. Its purely judged on two efficiency characteristics, using a single test rig to ensure comparable results :-

1. Power to weight: This usually tend to favour the larger engines for obvious reasons.

2. Specific Fuel Consumption (SFC): With all engines, there is an optimum rpm where the SFC is best for that engine, which is not necessarily max rpm or thrust.

I was directed to this forum because GTBA was mentioned, also there was a call for facts, this made me check the records:

Phill tested a prototype Wasp at the 2005 efficiency competition, he did two runs, the second of which recorded an SFC of 0.1742209632 Kg/h N

Checking through the records, this appears to be the lowest (best) SFC since records began back in 1995... However, reducing SFC is to be expected from the constant development of engines and this is what we strive for in the GTBA. The Efficiency Competition is a way for members to demonstrate the advances they have made in the preceding year.

There are a number of factors that effect the SFC of an engine however, compression ratio and turbine inlet temperature are extremely important, as is the local ambient environment. All the engines are tested on the same day in the same location and ambient temperature is noted.

Each engine will have a design compression ratio and will be built to run at a certain turbine inlet temperature. The higher these two figures are the better the SFC is likely to be. In short you can't FIX a result, you have to have designed the engine to achieve these figures.

Some fine tuning of RPM / Thrust can make some small changes to the final result but requires a number of test runs at different setting to find the optimum for a particular engine on a particular day. This may give an edge on a close run competition - but this will not make any difference to a thirsty inefficient engine, it will only work on one which is already pretty efficient.

The downside of striving for low SFC means higher and higher dynamic loads on the components and, unless design, building and materials are refined to withstand these higher stresses then ultimately there comes a limit where reliability is more important than fuel efficiency.

With regard to the Efficiency Competition itself, we would welcome any and all commercial engines, not selected specimens but random off the shelf engines, in addition to all the home built engines in order to provide the turbine community with some unbiased results on as many engines as can be tested. So why not put your money where your mouth is and pit your engine against the best!

Peter Chaffe (Gas Turbine Builders Association)

RE: Wasp update
 

Phil definately won fair and square there is no question to that from my point at all and I know this in its self he should be proud of in my view but it would be great for everyone to see exactly what engines his is more efficent than JUST for reference purposes.

Fair I think

Ant

RE: Wasp update
 

Any update to report?

Dave

RE: Wasp update
 

ooohhh dear the poor owners of these engines - I now know 5 people who have one and NON are any good they struggle to even get them started Phil has had simply way more than enough time now to sort these problems but instead he has taken the view of putting his head in the sand and not answering most of his calls he is obviously too busy . STAY AWAY FROM THIS ENGINE FOR NOW as its still no good and in my opinion the designer a brilliant engineer he may be but he should be feeling a little guilty to say the least. If I treated my customers on par with how phil has I certainly wouldn't be in the position I am now.

Lucky as I was going to buy one but had a wren SS instead definately the right decision on my part as I would be getting my money back.

I am entitled to my opinion wether people agree or not which is based on hearing and speaking about some experiences from owners of this engine.

Sorry Phil but you have now in my opinion well and truely stepped over the mark and you must now realise this. Its certainly nothing personal I just hate the thought of newbies stuggleing as I did in the early day with bad purchase choices and YES THIS IS MY ONLY motivation on this subject.

I have very much had enough of this subject now best left for a while until we acctualy hear reports of relyable running engines and previous customersbeing sorted but I won't be holding my breath please excuse my cynicism but we have been hearing for way over a year that its close but nothing comng of it.

All the best

Ant

RE: Wasp update
 

So I take it that no updates to this turbine have been made?
Anyone who owns one care to comment?

Dave

RE: Wasp update
 

sshhhhhh

Ant.

RE: Wasp update
 

Mine runs like a rapped ape...

RE: Wasp update
 

Do Apes rap, or are they rapped about ?

RE: Wasp update
 

Haha...

Lets just put it this way, after the orginal combustion chamber was replaced, the engine has been prefect for me, great on fuel and seems to be making the claimed 18 to 20 pounds right now, although I havent tested it now because for my project it will be more than enough anyway. I also like how both bearings have there own lube line and it doesnt rely on the blowback from the first line.

RE: Wasp update
 

Skymac

When did you get your new combustion chamber and bearing lubrication system? I have been waiting for Phil to announce something. Mine has been an excellent starter but has cut out on sharp acceleration, increasingly so with age. I have put the ECU upto 150 without success and have now taken it out of my test model awaiting developments. If I could update mine, I would be well pleased. In my case, when it was young, it did the bus.

Best wishes

RE: Wasp update
 

I have been following this thread since its creation, but I haven't thrown anything into the fire until now. I recieved the engine on 3/30/06, In following days I ran the engine and everything was going great, nice accel/decel times and rock solid, very very easy autostarts. Then after about 3 or 4 cycles my Accels become uneven and got to where it would fall on its face around 80K rpm, but still had great starts and decent temps. Talked with Phil and it was determined that the CC was faulty due to a simple design flaw in the orientation of the sticks, (no ecu setting will help solve this problem, its all about air/fuel mix)

At this point, Phil was busy with moving and other various things I imagine. Few months go by, about 5 or so months later I ordered the new version CC, with it also came the new fuel ring which include the second lube line, see photos. All I had to do was put my existing shaft tunnel in the Mill, I drilled a 1mm 45* hole in the rear of the tunnel where the rear lube line rests inside of the tunnel, goes in about .5mm or so. I can't remember the exact length that the hole had to be drilled at from the front of the tunnel, but its pretty much self explanatory.

Once these two things where completed, the engine was reassembled and then test run with totally superb results!

Steady Idle/Max RPM, Very nice EGT's, and what seems to be great fuel consumption & thrust. Not to mention the Accel/Decel times are right there aswell. I am very satisfied with this setup and can't gather all the bad talk about. I have about 1.5 Hours or so on the engine, and a ton of start/stop cycles, never a hitch all done while trying to ridle the CC problem, thinking I could trick the ECU, but Phil was always right, haha..

The pic that has the drawing added to it shows a rough example of the rear lube line, the line is on the other side of the tunnel, where the arrow points, that why I added the red line, to show what it looks like since it can't be seen. Max rpm is also 145,000... The 125K pic is all that I happened to have here on the laptop, but the temps at 145K are almost the same, maybe 10c+/-.

Hope this helps

RE: Wasp update
 

This is great news its just a shame it wasn't sooner in order to avoid claims etc. Lets hope phil gets the upgrades to them who have been waiting for 12 month + ASAP FREE OF CHARGE.

Henry if I recal you said it also cuts out depending which way the wind blows across the engine for example from infront the engine is ok but turn the engine 90 degrees then flame out. Lets hope this new combustion chamber puts all this behind Phil.

All the best

Ant

RE: Wasp update
 

just a small update from myself, (i'm sure Phill won't mind)

a few weeks back myself and Phill we're getting a super reaper flight ready and used my old fuel pump which i 'thought' was clean, we ran the pump through a bottle of fuel to ensure it was cleaned out and then fitted it to his test wasp, the engine ran fine until almost all the fuel had gone and then flamed out, we refueled the tank and found that it was throwing flames out the back and not running right, we stripped the engine and found that some of the fuel needles were blocked....what caused this?
my fuel pump obviously had some crap inside.
what was also 'my' fault when plumbing the pump to the engine is that i didn't fit a fuel filter after the pump.

moral of the story.....always fit a fuel filter after the fuel pump and if you have one spare fit a fuel filter before the pump too.

this brings onto another development that phill is testing with the wasp, it's a new fuel ring machined from solid, testing has stopped over xmas but the results so far look promising, the new ring will not have any tendancy to crack or block like the brass rings, if needles do become blocked then cleaning them is possible.
sorry i can't gve any hints or drawings as to what it looks like or how it works as at present it is of course a trade secret, but i'm sure Phill will update this thread with the results when he gets time

RE: Wasp update
 

Dirty pump - no filter quite important things over looked don't you think personally I would have kept that to myself as it would make me look a complete novice not a supposed professional !! but hey we all make mistakes granted some more than others.

Its great that he is still being creative but I do think that before phil starts leapfroging with new injector rings etc etc shouldn't he be prioritsing on sorting out exsisting unhappy customers with these new combustion chambers and turbine wheels.

Great that after all this time phil is finally looking (if we believe the rumours) as if he is solving some of these problems.

RE: Wasp update
 

wow, i'm a supposed professional....thanks.
i flushed the pump out and it was clean, obvioulsy not clean enough.

i'll leave it at that, really wish i'd not joined this thread, *****ing, back stabbing, degrading, insulting, that's all it is.

mods, delete the thread if you please so we can start again with some constructive data.


all i was trying to do was remind people to ensure they use a filter and you reply with sarcasim, if you don't have anything constructve to say keep it to yourself PAL!

RE: Wasp update
 

Im with you on that one paulj! There aint no rumours here, Phill IS solving the aledged development issues with the wasp. I was lucky enough to spend some time with Phil a few weeks ago, and the new wasp we ran was awesome. Sounds like rutter is getting all pmt before robin, sorry wrens new toy is launched!

RE: Wasp update
 

[sm=punching.gif]

RE: Wasp update
 

lol... I have provided all of my updates, so I guess Im going to step out awhile until anything else comes up as I don't have a horse in this race, hehe..[sm=idea.gif]

RE: Wasp update
 

Skymac

Thanks ever so much for your comments, which I found most encouraging.

Thanks to you prompting me into action, I have E-mailed and have received what looks like a very encouraging and very fairly priced upgrade offer. This includes a built-in FOD as well as the mods you describe.

Obviously the various mods will add weight, but it is worth noting in the list of engine tests published in RCJI that this engine still scores very well in the league table on both thrust /weight ratio and fuel economy. If the reliability problems are sorted as you and others suggest - then may be we are approaching the moment when we ask "Rutter the Nutter" to join our club? He always said he would - when the time was right!

Best wishes

RE: Wasp update
 

Hi Paul,

I don't want to jump on the bash the hell out the Wasp band wagon but JetCat have had a machined fuel manifold for 6 yrs plus now which allows channels to be wiped clean and the needles to be cleaned from both ends. Hardly a trade secret, I think I have one or two in my scrap box if you would like them.

Regards
jason

RE: Wasp update
 

I like that, ever thought of being a politician:) I would say they are a bit more than "aledged" if he's actually solving them.

RE: Wasp update
 

Yes from the way you have lectured us I thought you must have quite a knowledge and wealth of experience is this not the case??

I don't back stab everything is on record for everyone to read and if people were stood in front of me I would be happy to repeat my fair comments its upto them if they take the hump not me. I just can't believe I'm seemed to be at fault I'm not the one taking money for goods that seem not fit for the job am I, I'm just letting newbie' be aware of a big problem with a product still even well over a year after its launch. I think 'normal' people reading this will see I'm fair and correct. I'll leave it at that for now I have to do some work.

All the best

Ant

ps when the new wren comes out it will be right just like all the other engines they have released and THEY stand the cost of development and so they should reap the rewards.

RE: Wasp update
 

Sorry just been reading again and come across the above mmm first you have to pay for an engine that doesn't run very well. Then the makers 12 months later fixes the problems GREAT NEWS well done. NOW HE WANTS TO CHARGE FOR THE FIX you suckers I give up what are you doing paying this should be free. Phil please come in and tell us it free I know you launched it early and YES I did believe eventaully you would come out a success which it seems according to reports you have but please correct henry on this as he is thinking he has to pay.

Ant

RE: Wasp update
 

Ant

For once I agree with you 101% I thought about buying one of these turbines and am very glad I did not. Why do we put up with this sort of nonsense? Anyone who has bought the Wasp has paid well over £1,000 for a turbine that is not fully developed and as far as I can gather from this thread no one has one which is running perfectly. If you buy a Wren you will get a fully developed and supported turbine and immediate help and backup if you need it.

Whether Phil is a nice guy or not, or a terrific engineer has nothing to do with it. He has sold the turbines and if they do not perform as advertised it is his problem to fix it at no cost to the customer. If I had bought one I would have been looking for my money back long ago.

John