I glad to see that other people have been thinking about the Insight. I like to build and although I am not crazy about its rather angular looks, altering the turtle deck to give a more rounded look would be a relatively simple change. I was also thinking about modifying the fin/rudder outline to make a little more pleasing to me. I agree that there aren't many choices available, but I look at the Insight kit as giving me a solid starting point from which to build on.

As an aside, last year was my first year flying pattern and from what I can see, you do not need to have the greatest and latest to compete in the lower classes. I flew an Angel 50 and I did not feel at a disadvantage (in Sportman). Actually, my last contest of the season was won by someone flying a Venus .40. I may have had a better plane but he was definitely a better pilot. I will be flying intermediate this year and although I would love to have a "real pattern plane" (aka 2M), my flying skills do not justify sinking so much money into a single plane. I would probably be better off having a good backup plane. My Angel has seen its life flash in front of it more than once while trying to fly the intermediate sequence.

Teo

I encourage you to consider the Insight. Check out the friends page on marks site and you can see the different versions.

I added 1 inch to the bottom of the side of my fuse and it really brought the plane alive.

The insight is the Ugly Stick of pattern, you can do with it what you like and marks wing, tail, moments all work well for most classes.

Chuck

I thought they cost so much because some of us would pay that amount!!

this kit looks pretty nice. it has a dorsal fin thought.? in one pic it shows a t shaped dorsal fin.?
<span class="text"><u><font color="#ff0000" size="6" face="Swis721 Blk BT"><span style="line-height: 44px; font-size: 36px">PENTATHLON EVO<br soft="" />
http://www.insightrc.com/Evo-orderpg1.html</span></font></u></span>

Many are using extra appendages on their models nowadays. The vertical extra fins near the aerodynamic center enhance performance in yaw. Build it as the designer intended and you won't go wrong

It's hard to believe that there's room in the market for another el-cheapo, no-name, 50cc sized ARF Yak/Extra but no market for a non-scale plane that's built well and actually flies properly.

However while I have never owned one, a bloke in our club has an Excelleron 90 with a 120AX in it. The owner isn't a pattern flyer and I doubt it's trimmed properly but it just seems to "sit" well in the air. I can't comment on it's construction or weight and I don't know how hard he's working on the sticks but from the moment it takes off it just looks planted in the sky and doesn't bounce around or have any nervousness about it. You know how F3A ships just look and sit different in the sky, well this looks very similiar.

If I didn't have too many planes, I'd buy one for my 140RX just to see if it really does fly as good as it seems to be flying. It may have horrible control coupling for all I know but if it does, the owner is doing a very good job of hiding it.

Brett

I've had a crack at the excelleron 50, and it was a pretty capable ship. I'd assume the 90 would be much the same.

I've had an Excelleron 90 for years and it is very stable and a lot of fun to just fly around, practice new manuevers, etc. I have a YS 140FZ in mine, I added about 3/32 to the trailing edge to increase the incidence and added tip plates similar to a passport. It's very easily mixed for knifeedge and verticals. Added a block to the gear plate to increase the gear length for the 140 prop.
I don't believe they are available in the US anymore and maybe not manufactured. Its too bad. I feel this is a much better plane for aerobatics than the Venuses and other plane in this category. It will do a credible job of P11.
I don't remember what I paid for mine 6 years ago but it was probably about 150. If one were available today, I expect it would be under 300. Brett, are they still available in Australia?

John

Hi John,

I asked the bloke the other day and he reckons they are still available. I googled around and it seems $330-$400 is the going rate but I didn't ring anyone to confirm prices and availability.

My Mum, just brought around the last of Dad's planes (100" Curare with Zenoah G-62 (150%), built in '92) on the weekend and I have officially run out of room in the house and in the shed so if I get another plane my GF will hurt me.

As for why they can be comparatively expensive, if it's a recognised design regardless of the manufacturer then I'd bet there's a licence fee or royalties involved.

I don't know if you are looking for an ARF pattern plane or a kit, but if a kit is an option, then there are some reasonably priced kits available here: <a href="http://www.bridiairplanes.com/hangar/index.htm">http://www.bridiairplanes.com/hangar/index.htm
</a>
-Mike

<br type="_moz" />

Did the Curare ever fly? I recall seeing a photo of one many years ago in the Kfactor... was this the plane?

Hello,

Another option to consider would be Eureka Aircraft, they have kits for the Curare and Tiporare. I believe that scaled up versions of the Tipo are available. I am currently building a baby version of the Curare to use a park flyer. It probably won't fly as well as a current pattern plane, but it should be a pretty decent sport plane.

Teo

Ignorance is bliss

<span style="color: #3366ff">I dont know about you guys but the yak makes me want to </span><span style="color: #ff0000">yak!. </span><span style="color: #3366ff">i just dont like the looks of the plane at all. but alot of people must there every where</span>.

I am more partial to the <span style="color: #ff0000">G202"S and Caps</span>. and of course <span style="color: #ff0000">pattern </span>planes.

post deleted.

Volkert

Thanks Volkert, the encouragement is appreciated.
I certainly intend to get as far up the rung as I can go. The Sebart Wind 110E is definately on the shopping list. Doing some basic calcs I could get it flying for a little over a $1000 which is reasonable for a top quality plane as the Wind. They also make the F3Aversion which increases in price by a factor of 3!! I have no shortage of 90 to 1.20 size pattern planes at reasonable prices. Its just whenan F3A sticker is applied to the decal set then the price goes up. Not all the price is materials and labour, I think theres a premium also attached to the "F3A'. No doubt I could get hold of one of Andre Stockwell's Quantum EL's for a very reasonable price over here (Lotsof work though)

Got out of bed on wrong side this morning.....

I suspect there is more to this statement than people would like to admit.

I look at the Sebart Wind 50E. It's 65" long, with a 62" span, and it comes in at roughly 6.5 pounds RTF (unless you use heavy components) for $340. That's what we used to pay for a kit for a pattern airplane of the same size when they were in vogue. $350 for a fuse, some foam cores, and some small, hand-drawn 'plans' from R/C City.

Scaling up, you gain 8.8 ounces from the motor (going from Hacker A50 to Q80), and you pickup another 26 ounces for the increased battery size. So you're roughly at 2.3 pounds available for airframe weight. Now obviously this is not a perfect calculation because things like servos, linkages, etc. will get heavier as well. But I find it difficult to believe looking at the construction that it couldn't be enlarged to 2m length using the same construction methods and still make weight.

Yet the 2M all composite version costs $2000. Seems to me Sebart (or others) could build a 2m airplane for a lot less money, but when people WILL spend $2-5k for an ARF airframe.. why bother?

WHAT???? What are you talking about.

Your comment was simply answered...."Ignorance is Bliss"

If I need to explain, then, it's THE reason why there is room. The masses generally don't have a clue as to how thoroughbreds perform

Now that you have egg on your face, apologize. Lest I come down to Aussie land and have my pet Kangaroo box your ears off while my pet Dingo is breaking your props...LOL

That's a joke, bloke

[quote]ORIGINAL: MTK


Wiping egg off face now

But my army of trained Kookburras will wipe the floor with your Kangaroo and Dingo....

Ha, Ha!! There you go....me likey much better.
KOOKBURRA sounds filthy

Bryan,

What did you do? Seed your garden with minced beef?

John

How big is the pattern plane market in US? Out of that, how many compete above the intermediate level? With these two numbers, you will know how expensive high-end pattern planes will cost.

I do not expect things will change.

But if you can get a good fiberglassed plane, it will last a very long time, or retain it's value. So your investment on it may not be at a total loss. probably better than wood buildup planes.

Think positively.

I agree with Renegade. things cost what they cost because that's what people will pay for them.
Having said that, and having just completed my first modern pattern plane (a Xigris C2), pattern planes and kits are different.
Components like vacuum bagged fuselages, carbon fiber landing gear and other very light components are labor intensive and therefore more costly to produce.
I don't think we're entirely rational in our purchasing decisions, either. A friend has tried to sell a couple of very nice pattern planes at a very reasonable prices without a single nibble. We don't want 'good enough', we feel like we need the ultimate, even when we're starting out.

I don't think anyone really understands how few of each plane is ever built. Let's take the 2M Focus.

I think ther were only a couple hundred sold over 5 yrs! Now planes are bigger...harder to make weiight and especially with electric systems.

Most look at the cost of materials..but you have to pay the designer. Builder and shipper. Plus most arfs are made in china. Shipping from china has changed over the last years and cost to ship it outrageuos for single planes there fore must go by container.

If anyone wants to order a container of 25 2M planes to the US or Australia..please contact me via email

[email protected]. check out our Favorit bipe!


Regards

Chuck hochhalter