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A Good Snap Roll

Old 05-05-2018, 09:59 AM
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OhD
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Default A Good Snap Roll

I happened to do a good snap roll the other day and took a look at how I had moved the sticks. It was an inside snap on a 45 degree downline.

P1 is ailerons - Blue
P2 is elevator - Gray
P3 is rudder - Green
P4 is throttle - Red

You can see the elevator and rudder are applied about a quarter second before the ailerons and then the rudder is released about a quarter of a second before the ailerons/elevators are neutralized. The roll is over in about 0.8 seconds for a roll rate of 450 degrees per second. The sample rate is relatively slow so we really don't know how long it takes to go from neutral to full elevator for instance but it feels like I'm at full up before the ailerons are applied. It would be nice to have a faster recording system. Then the next question is how fast are the servos? Do they keep up with the stick?

Can I practice moving the sticks like this and do it with my eyes closed and get a good snap every time?

Jim O







Last edited by OhD; 05-05-2018 at 10:01 AM.
Old 05-05-2018, 02:46 PM
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flywilly
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Very interesting, Jim. I have always had good results releasing the rudder a bit early, myself. Can you program those exact inputs into a snap switch? ...and is that cheating? :-)
-Will
Old 05-07-2018, 01:50 PM
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OhD
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Originally Posted by flywilly View Post
Very interesting, Jim. I have always had good results releasing the rudder a bit early, myself. Can you program those exact inputs into a snap switch? ...and is that cheating? :-)
-Will
I have tried setting up a sequencer to do the rudder automatically, but was not happy with it. I couldn't get the exact timing with the sequencer I had. It could probably be done if one wanted to spend a lot of time but I don't think it would be worth it. Probably too aircraft speed dependent. Cheating? Not if your object is to perform maneuvers better. However, if you sign up to obey rules written by some elitist governing body, you better follow their rules.

Jim
Old 05-07-2018, 03:30 PM
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flywilly
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Hi Jim,
In all seriousness, is there any way to use telemetry data for programming reference which I guess would be a form of reverse engineering? Maybe not acceptable for competitive pattern flying, but an interesting exercise at the very least.
As far as elitist governing bodies... there are so many to choose from :-)
-Will
Old 05-07-2018, 04:17 PM
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OhD
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Originally Posted by flywilly View Post
Hi Jim,
In all seriousness, is there any way to use telemetry data for programming reference which I guess would be a form of reverse engineering? Maybe not acceptable for competitive pattern flying, but an interesting exercise at the very least.
As far as elitist governing bodies... there are so many to choose from :-)
-Will
For sure telemetering data can provide feedback that can help you improve your competitive pattern flying. GPS is probably number one. It can tell you if you are flying parallel to the runway and at the right distance out and if you are going out of the box. It can call out your heading every few seconds. Some of the new stabilizers can record your roll and pitch attitudes so you can see what the plane should look like when it is flying level and if you are really doing it. Just looking at your stick commands can tell you a lot about how well you are doing various maneuvers like point rolls where you want perfect rhythm. Equal time on each point. Straight and level entries and exits. Straight lines on verticals and 45 degree lines. I don't know how this can help programming your radio but the capability is available to allow telemetering outputs to command inputs to the controls.

Just knowing what the plane should look like when it is doing a maneuver properly is important to improving your flying skills.

As far as cheating, I wouldn't worry about the old guys who always complain and think we should go back to 1960s technology.

Jim
Old 05-08-2018, 02:03 PM
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flywilly
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Hi Jim,
I've been thinking about the use of all this cool telemetry data and wondered if it would be possible to use it as input on a flight simulator to actually watch the flight based on the accumulated data. It would be nice to be able to view the flight from different perspectives (end view, top view).
Then we can 'judge' our flights from the comfort of our living room.
-Will
Old 05-08-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by OhD View Post
For sure telemetering data can provide feedback that can help you improve your competitive pattern flying. GPS is probably number one. It can tell you if you are flying parallel to the runway and at the right distance out and if you are going out of the box. It can call out your heading every few seconds. Some of the new stabilizers can record your roll and pitch attitudes so you can see what the plane should look like when it is flying level and if you are really doing it. Just looking at your stick commands can tell you a lot about how well you are doing various maneuvers like point rolls where you want perfect rhythm. Equal time on each point. Straight and level entries and exits. Straight lines on verticals and 45 degree lines. I don't know how this can help programming your radio but the capability is available to allow telemetering outputs to command inputs to the controls.

Just knowing what the plane should look like when it is doing a maneuver properly is important to improving your flying skills.

As far as cheating, I wouldn't worry about the old guys who always complain and think we should go back to 1960s technology.

Jim
If you enter a pattern contest, the judges will often discuss with you the weak points in your flight. Then apply what they tell you. You could also watch the upper classes fly and see what good maneuvers look like. In my NSRCA district,,(6), we have clinics and judging seminars to help us see how to achieve a high score.

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