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YS 160 DZ

Old 11-22-2005, 02:00 AM
  #26  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ


ORIGINAL: papaone

Hi
Yes I do two things before break-in of the engine :
-I put oil in the cam case before break-in nad when I remove the engine I put again oil in cam case, it's very easy to do that. It's synthetic oil used to make fuel.
-I verifie tappet adjustment. For the last two engines I got, there was no tappet clearance. It was tightened. After running many hours tappet clearance don't move.
Regards



is it save to open the cam case? will any thing fall out???
Old 11-22-2005, 02:10 AM
  #27  
MikeEast
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

No nothing will fall out. Just lay the engine on its side and remove the 2 screws on the cam cover. There is no gasket, the cam cover is sealed by an O Ring. Just ease the cam cover off and lay it on a clean paper towel or something dust free. It takes about a tablespoon of oil to fill the chamber. I used a turkey basting syringe. Fill it until the gear is just submerged then stop and put the cover back on. Thats how I was instructed to do it. I havent run the engine yet, but that was the procedure for oiling the cam.
Old 11-22-2005, 08:23 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Hi
Yes it's alright with APC 16x12 on 140DZ and 160 DZ with 20 % nitro.
(on 140 DZ if plane is big or heavy near 4700 g, more nitro is better)
Pascal Nowik (of ZNLINE) uses APC 16x11 with 160 DZ on his Twister to get a constant speed.
So engine run very fast but plane does'nt very fast because propeller's step is little.
Regards
Old 11-22-2005, 12:36 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Putting oil in the cam gear area...is only because when the motor is new or has set in a box for a while and this area may be dry. When its dry the first start up can cause some damage before the motor gets up to temperature and oil starts to migrate to the cam area via the normal path.

Just so that you know....Oil drips down from the valve cover area through the pushrod tubes. Now the pump side of the DZ pushrod tubes is pretty tight as the pump has a piston that sort of seals it up. Some fuel, oil can come in the bottom of this pumps piston and will drip down into the cam. The exhaust valve pushrod is the biggest and easiest way for the oil to get down there. It then drips through a little hole in the bottom of the lifters that ride on the cam. From this little hole it enters the cam gear area. SO by sticking a little oil in there before you run the motor the result is you insure the cam gear is protected.

On the first start of the motor if this is dry perhaps you can get a little un-needed wear and the result is 30-50-100-150 flights later the cam can fail. Also running the motor out fuel can cause this un-needed wear as the motor can backfire and this causes problems. But that is another topic for another time.

I started doing the oil thing on the cam many years ago when I had a cam fail on a new 140L at about 50 flights. I started thinking about what was going on and have not had a cam failure since. I do this on all my YS motors when they are new, or I have taken them apart for checkup or repair. By the way I also put oil inside the case to lube the piston, rod and crank on the first run also.

Makes them a little harder to start on the first run out of the box....but for the most part oil is protecting the metal to metal contact points.

Troy
Old 11-22-2005, 12:57 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

thanks for tt advise... i appreciate it ,but i ran that 140dz a few months ago(run in)
Old 11-22-2005, 11:23 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Food for thought.
I cannot turn this engine over with my Hobbico Torqmaster 90 starter and a good hot 12V battery. I could start a 1.40L no problem but it wont spin this engine up. I am having a B&P Assoc Magnum starter sent to me to replace.
Old 11-23-2005, 05:54 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Provided you operate a soldering iron the same capable way as you seem to handle many other tools, I will recommend the small planet-gear driven Kavan starter. Only thing is that you have to replace the wiring with some heavy duty copper all the way to the coals ( Is that the phrase ? ) inside the starter. Operation takes an hour and then the starter will produce so much torque as the Sullivan Torquemaster which is far more expensive and a lot heavier.

If you can not turn the motor with a hanging cylinder remember to consider if you have flooded the engine. These highpower starters can destroy wristpins and pistons and conrods if cylinder head is filled with fuel. Allways handcrank a couple of times ....

Please keep up the info on your 160 as I'm also going to operate one for the next season
Regards Eggert
Old 11-23-2005, 05:58 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Hi
This engine needs a powerfull starter.
I start it with twin turbostarter Kato and a batterie 12V. And I apply this procedure :
Open gaz throttle (without glow connect it's very important) and run engine with starter until fuel come in engine then I close gaz throttle.
Put glow plug and connect to batterie 2V, but I connect just a wire on batterie + or -.
I run engine with starter and put the other wire. It's easy with a friend who connects wires.
I did a lot of start (above 150 ) with this procedure without any problem.
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Old 11-23-2005, 06:34 AM
  #34  
drbebob
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

I have been running YS motors for almost 20 years and this is the first one I have disliked. The reason is just exactly what you have just outlined- it takes a lot more work to start this motor. I understand that the game is to make the most power but one of the good things about the old YS fuel system is that the motor is so easy to handle. Get it wet, put on the glow and one backflip and gone. This DZ stuff is a PITA. I'm gonna take a look at the Saito 2.2 with the pressure system. I have a 300 with that fuel system and it works OK. Not like the YS but OK. Maybe YS will answer Saito's challenge with larger "sport" engine.
BTW, the Kavan starter works fine; been using one for years. You don't have to rewire it either. Just put in a bigger fuse and you are good to go.
Old 11-23-2005, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Here's a method that removes the difficulties in starting the Dingo and works with low power starters.

First - (For the first start of the day) prime the engine by opening the throttle, pinch the tank vent line, and give it a turn or so with the fueling pump. Close the throttle. (On the first start on a new engine it also helps to take the fuel line from the injector and pump fuel through the system to purge air.)

Second - Connect the glow driver but do not turn it on!

Third - Spin the engine with the starter and while it's spinning switch on the glow driver.

Easy smooth start every time - no hard kicking back, starter stalling, or any bad stuff.
Old 11-23-2005, 07:53 AM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ


ORIGINAL: MikeEast

Food for thought.
I cannot turn this engine over with my Hobbico Torqmaster 90 starter and a good hot 12V battery. I could start a 1.40L no problem but it wont spin this engine up. I am having a B&P Assoc Magnum starter sent to me to replace.
lol !! same problem here!!! i had to had my 12v batt in TIP TOP condition just to spin up the engine !!!
Old 11-23-2005, 11:29 AM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Earl --- Like I said PITA. I suppose now I have to buy one of those fancy glow drivers that have a built in switch and LED readout and cost about $100. How many hands do you use when you are starting the motor, I only have two; one to hold the nose of the airplane, one to hold the starter. I would have to flip the switch with my nose or teeth; could get hairy.
Hey, do you know Kelly Jacobson? I think he used to live somewhere around Katy. I'd like to get back in contact with him.

Bob
Old 11-23-2005, 12:19 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Bob - Yes, more trouble than a glow 40, and yes - a swithable glow driver is almost mandatory, but it doesn't need to be a high dollar version. simply a nicad, a connector with a lead and switch (push button works). I only have two hands also - I tie the airplane to a post - or use a starting table - one hand on the starter and the other on the landing gear with the switch within reach of a finger. Spin the engine and flip the switch. Sure beats banging the starter / airplane by initially cranking the thing with hot glow.

Sorry - I don't believe I know your friend.
Old 11-23-2005, 02:01 PM
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StarskiPZ
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Doesnt anyone move up to 18volt from 12?

so far my dynatron has been fine with engines up to zenoah 45's....but starts to slow down!

the dynatron will handle 2x12 volt batteries in series giving 24volt - and more volts means more torque..!
its easy to use two 12's as their both the same capacity.
I have tried one 12v in series with one 6v - both of the same capacity (ie amps per hour)
this gives me a faster spin with 18volts - and both batteries give up eventually - at the same time (because everybodies borowing it at the field!!)

but like Betelgeuze said - be carefull with all that torque that your engine isnt locked up!!

regards 2 all

starski

Old 11-23-2005, 02:41 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Hi
I aggree with EHFAI. I started my 140 DZ and 160 DZ more 150 times as he does.
"Easy smooth start every time - no hard kicking back, starter stalling, or any bad stuff"
regards
Old 11-23-2005, 06:08 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ



I have designed my own "soft start technology" glow driver which works an absolute treat for DZ engines. I would say it is almost a must and you can go flying on your own.

You can use it as a conventional glow driver by using the ON/OFF switch or you can simply press the RED button which turns the driver OFF from anywhere between 1-10 seconds by adjusting a pot. It uses switching regulator technology which is more efficient and can deliver up to 5 amps which will burn of excess fuel in any flooded engine.

The analogue meter is also a must because it tells you exactly how wet the glow plug is. For example when I prime the engine I expect the meter to sit at 4-5 amps until the fuel has burnt off and then it should settle at just over 3 amps when he plug is dry. I know if it isnt drawing 4-5 amps after a prime then I know that no fuel has got to the engine.


I have built a number of these for friends and they are most impressed. I have no plans to manufature but I could be tempted if there is enough interest.

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Old 11-23-2005, 06:33 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Peter-- That sounds like the solution for us two handed non-juggler types. I would be interested. If you don't feel like making one (or more) do you have a schematic. I am pretty good with a soldering iron.

Bob
Old 11-23-2005, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Whoa there Tex. With all that cranking power you're going to start bending con rods. If you have to use that kind of torque to start a 25 cc motor something is wrong with your starting procedure.

Bob
Old 11-23-2005, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

I now have my plane fully ready to run. I will try running mine tomorrow or Friday using Earls technique. It actually sounds quite simple,,, and a necessity if you want to run the 1.60DZ and reap its benefits without having the torque potentially damage your airframe. Big deal,,,,, you have to hold onto the plane somewhere while you crank, so what it it just happens to be in a spot where you can stick your finger on the button of the glow starter.

Earl, thanks for all the help I cant wait to hear it fire off for the 1st time. I think Ray and I are going to go out Friday and run it out....
Old 11-23-2005, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Mike let me know how easy and safe you feel doing the cranking glow start. I like to keep one hand FIRMLY on the airframe preferably right behind the motor if possible. I don't want to be hanging on to a wheel pant when I accidently and stupidly do a full throttle start. At that point the airplane will make a hard right turn and eat my arm. But to each his own. I suppose I should use a tail holding restraint to prevent that kind of thing but I still like the idea of the soft start glow driver the best.


Bob
Old 11-24-2005, 12:33 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ


ORIGINAL: drbebob

I have been running YS motors for almost 20 years and this is the first one I have disliked. The reason is just exactly what you have just outlined- it takes a lot more work to start this motor. I understand that the game is to make the most power but one of the good things about the old YS fuel system is that the motor is so easy to handle. Get it wet, put on the glow and one backflip and gone. This DZ stuff is a PITA. I'm gonna take a look at the Saito 2.2 with the pressure system. I have a 300 with that fuel system and it works OK. Not like the YS but OK. Maybe YS will answer Saito's challenge with larger "sport" engine.
BTW, the Kavan starter works fine; been using one for years. You don't have to rewire it either. Just put in a bigger fuse and you are good to go.
drbebob -- If you have been running YS for 20 years, then you know what you are talking about. I, on the other hand, have been running YS for about 15 years, and the DZ is the first YS that I liked! Yes, it is more difficult to start than the others, but it is far easier to run. In many hundreds of flights, I have never had a dead stick when I had fuel in the tank. Never. Not one. The power, torque, linear throttle, and ease of use more than make up for difficulty in starting. Give it a a whole season, and I bet you will fall in love with it.
Old 11-24-2005, 01:30 AM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

drebob, comments like that make me feel like a yearling largemouth bass on a hot summer morning. Its all I can do to resist striking the bait and getting reeled in.

Have another cast.

Old 11-24-2005, 12:05 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

Mike--- I do like to stir things up a bit I admit. I actually do love the power to weight of the DZ. I also tend to like to hand start my motors and the DZ doesn't lend itself real well to that. I have about 50 flights on my DP ultimate (kinda overpowered) and replaced it with the 1.4L. The DZ is going in my DP Edge which should be perfect for it at about 12 lb.
I do have a procedure for hand starting the DZ but it is no less complicated than the procedure for using the starter. I probably do need some kind of glo lighter with the capability of burning off a bit of excess fuel charge so I may as well get one with a switch.
to Dflynt: once I learned to filter the pressure line before the check valve I can't recall having a flameout with any YS period. That's why I love them-- they just work, everytime.

A Yearling large mouth down your way must weigh about 2 pounds or so. I have a large pond on our farm with some pretty good lunkers in it. I admire your restraint in not hitting the lure.

I still want the "soft start" driver from Down Under.


Bob
Old 11-24-2005, 12:22 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

lol, on a summer morning on Lake Sam Rayburn you may hit it just right and end up with 20 schoolies in the boat between 8oz to 1lb. Those little succers are a ball to catch and are a sure thing if you tie on a super fluke, especially when the old wise ones are suspended below waiting patiently for a more convincing prey. One of my other favorite past times.
Old 11-24-2005, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: YS 160 DZ

i shall try the "spin first then put in the glo method" this sat

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