Gotcha.. That makes sense..

If you add up the cost of a 'standard' 2m airplane, and then add the fuel to feed it for a year.. the cost difference just isn't that much. What DOES scare people is the initial investment since you can't buy a 'gallon' of electricity

With the 8000mah packs we're going to be pulling an average current of around 4 to 6C and a max pull of 8C in short bursts. If we have to run the 6000mah then longevity may become an issue as we'll be pushing them harder. I don't think we'll have any problems getting 500 flights or more out of the 8000mah packs.

I personally think that the Hacker motor/gearbox will last a lot more flights then any YS or 2-stroke. No expensive engine rebuilds. The batteries I believe will go 500-600 cycles, but I think you will really need 3 packs to keep flying all day. So that's 1500-1800 flights worth of batteries. I believe they will go bad from age before I put 1800 flights on them!

The real reason though that I want to go electric is just the pure ease of it. No messy oil all over the model, no dangerous starting, and the big one, no pounding vibration. I was just tired of the constant maintenance, primarily on servo pots, that I had to do with glow models. I'm maybe a bit more picky then most about servo performance, but I can see performance degradation in aileron servos in 30 flights on a glow pattern model. The electric should do much, much better. Also, no pipe length issues, no mixture setting, no idle problems, no burnt out glow plugs, etc.

But it does have to perform. I'll have a pretty good idea in a few days.

Well, I just finished getting it ready to fly. Weather is crummy right now but tomorrow should be better for the first flight.

With the fuse yet to be painted, it's weighing in at 5.07 kilo, just over the limit. But that is with a Duralite 1900 mah battery and regulator for the RC. If I can keep the paint job at 4 ounces, I think there are a number of places where I can shed the extra weight. Lighter spinner, LG, tailwheel, etc. Also, this is with a 10s4p battery. A 3p battery would put me well within the limit.

I've run the motor, and boy does this thing pull! Can't wait to see how it flies.

Tony,

Nice info on the electric Partner. It is an interesting prospect for pattern.

The reason I chimed in is because I too will fly my PL Products Partner for the first time tomorrow. I also wanted to give you another data point as a weight comparison. Final ready to fly weight dry is 9 pounds, 13 ounces or 4445 grams. I am using a DZ 140 with ES muffler. Hyde ARA mount. Tank setup is a 16 oz tetra, and a 4 oz header tank. With a full tank then, it weighs just over 11 pounds, or 5.02 kg.

Covering weighs 6 oz. Paint weight is right at 5 oz. I color sanded, and added a final clear coat. Normally I get a lighter paint weight, but this is one big pattern plane, and I wanted a nice finish. I think that you can get 4 oz or less.

Radio setup is 9411s converted to nylon gears on ailerons and also in each stab half. 8411sa on rudder. 3421 Throttle. Nicad battery, 1400 mah.

I did not do anything special to keep this plane light, other than keep the glue weight down. I built it and set it up exactly the way PL builds them.

Regards,

David

I got the first four flights on the model today, and all I can say is this is the real deal. The power is fantastic and the flying characteristics look like they are going to be excellent. I flew for 14 minutes on the last flight and I could not tell any change in the power for the entire flight. This electric stuff is just way cool! I've been flying a H9 Funtana with a Hacker/Thunderpower setup and it has been good, but this thing is a leap over that.

Some of the most notable items,

- The vertical power is as good as any glow powered model I have ever flown, and that includes the Webra 1.60 set-ups I've flown, and those were very good.

- When you come off the power, this thing slows down! That big 22" prop, set to an idle of a few 100 rpm's, just flat stops this model. I can't see how you'll ever coast past a spin entry with this thing. And the downline braking is the best I've seen. It was very windy today and the downline speed may have actually been too slow. A higher idle may be better in these conditions.

- It is just so smooth! The model in the air always sounds smooth, and watching it go up like it does so quietly is just flat neat. I don't really know if this is translating into a smoother flying model, but this model is flying that way.

- The full power horizontal speed is less then glow models at full power. This may be a detriment in very windy weather, but for everything else I think it will be better. I like to fly a controlled speed pattern, trying to make it look constant speed, so this seems to be an ideal setup. And it may even get better with some prop experimentation.

- This model really flies poorly when the rudder trim is way off! I broke a clevis on one of the rudder cables when I was adjusting it, and in the rush I to replace it I didn't get the rudder center even close. It had a lot of right rudder into it, and it wasn't happy. Neither was I! On the later flights I got the rudder centered and the trim seemed very good. Can't wait to get some good conditions to really evaluate the trim.

I cpuldn't be happier at this point. It's easy to fall in love with a new plane, so I'll have better opinions after 100 flights or so, but right now I'm pleased. Now to get it painted! And to get more battery packs and chargers.

Congratulations on your first flight!

It's easy to get more speed if you need to, just play with the prop pitch, you might have to decrease the diameter in the process to keep the amps down.

Did you measure your static amps WOT? Have you recharged your batteries to see how many mah you put back into them? Pictures!

Rob

Tony,
that's awesome. I'm no expert on controllers, but even at idle speed your controller is working to maintain the low rpm and may be getting hot. All that voltage needs a place to go. Rob H. might know better. It may be best to let the prop windmill at 0% throttle if the controller is getting too hot. Of course, adequate airflow will prevent this. Controllers tend to run hotter at partial settings rather than full throttle. If you have an IR temp gun, be sure to check the motor+esc+ batteries. I don't have anything remotely as big or costly, but those who do check the temps of the motor and controller. Demagging a motor or smoking the controller will ruin your week.

Just my .02

Terry

Tony,

I wonder how the 20x13E or 20x15E might work for the windy conditions? BTW.. your email is bouncing for me.

Doug,

I have had one other guy complain about my email. Don't know what is happening. PM me your email and I'll send you one you can reply to.

I'm going to try a bunch of things with props once I get this thing really going. Frankly, I'm not all that unhappy with the horizontal speed. In decent conditions I think it will make an impressive presentation.

Coming to the Lancaster contest?

I'm planning on it. I just need to finish the radio install in the Focus and run the engine. The Supreme won't be ready for Lancaster I don't think.. still waiting on the covering from ZN Line (they plotter cut it to my scheme).

I ordered a couple 20x13's to play with since I already have the 22x12's. I saw Jason fly the Rhapsody with the 20x13 in Vegas and that looked decent on downlines to me, but he thought it was fast (I'm assuming compared to the 22x12).

-Doug

Hi Doug,
It would be great to see you compete in the Lancaster contest. Bring some type of over pants and a big jacket in case the weather is normal (windy/cold). Tony's electric looked great flying the other day. A freight train of power going up, slow coming down. The Partner looks like a really nice flyer.
Jim W.

When is the Lancaster contest? Can't find any online info about it.

The meet is the weekend after the Super Bowl, February 6, 7. Here's a link to the club,

http://www.avti.org/

I have flown all the big APC-E props with the exception of the 24x12. The 22x12 had the best "pull feel". When I went up, I actually had to throttle back towards the end of the routine. The 20's and 21's just didn't have the authority that the 22 did. It is probably personal preference and would be fine for 99% of the people out there, but I guess that's just me.

I have a few props here and coming for testing when the Rev-Pro is done (due here Monday or Tuesday). If all goes well with tests, we're gonna ask Fred for some "help" with them . It'll be a few weeks, but I'll post when we're done testing.

Well, I started this model on December 22, and I finished it last night. After flying it last Sunday, I tore it down and started painting on Monday. The clear was sprayed on Thursday, and I geared it up, as I said, last night. Boy, it's hard to beat the basecoat paints! The paint job added 4.5 ounces, which is pretty good for a fuse as big as this. Right now, the total weight with the 10s4p pack is 11.4 pounds. Over by 7 ounces or so. But I think I can save that weight by replacing a few things and lighteneing here and there. I bought one of the UBEC's to replace the onboard RC battery. I will install it into my Funtana that has a Hacker system in it just to test the concept. If it works I'll install a pair into the Partner. That alone will save 4-5 ounces. An aluminum adapter nut for the spinner will save another 3/4 ounce. I'm looking at JR 3421SA servos for the elevator instead of the 9411SA's I have in now, and that will save a bit.

But of course, a 10s3P pack like Jason used will lose 12 ounces, and that will put it very comfortably into the weight limit. Almost too light, really. And the next generation cells I'm sure will come down in weight.

This has been a really fun project. I've enjoyed everything about it. Now if the wind will just lie down out here I can get some more flights on it!

Here's one pic, I'll post more detailed pics when I take them.

Thanks!

Looks great Tony..

Which paint did you use? I was thinking of using an acrylic enamel since a clear really isn't necessary.

It's a combo of PPG DBC for the white, blue, silver canopy and the black fogging. PPG DBU for the yellow and Dupont Chromabase for the red. That's all basecoat paints. As soon as you clean the gun you can mask for the next color. I painted the whole fuse white, then put down all the 1/8" trim tape, then started shooting the colors. The clear is PPG 2021 thinned 200% with DT870. I just took some samples of the monokote to the paint store here in town, went through the color charts, and we picked out some that are really very close to the monokote colors. Couldn't be easier.

My personal opinion is the basecoat paints are no heavier, maybe even lighter then catalysed colors. And they are sooooo easy to spray. Almost like spraying a lacquer. The clear is the only thing with some weight, and thinned 200% makes it pretty light. And very easy to spray.

The primer was PPG K-36.

BTW, in the December issue of RCM was an article on a downdraft dust collector. I built one and it is a real asset in the shop. Really keeps the dust down and clears the air when painting. Look it up, pretty easy to build.

I couldn't wait and even though the wind is howling here I went out and got in two flights. I don't believe there will be any disadvantage to the electric in wind. I am one happy camper right now!

Great looking airplane, Tony. Maybe the USA will field an all electric FAI team in 2005... :-)
-Will B.

Thanks Will! I don't know about the team. Most of those in contention for a team spot are heavily sponsored by YS, so I don't know if they will switch. Going electric for the first time is a pretty healthy investment in money, what with battery packs and chargers. I did it because I think it will make pattern much more fun for me, with much less maintenance. It is TBD if it is a competitive advantage at that top level. But if it is at least no disadvantage, to me it is worth it.

More pics to come.

Tony: Did you notice any need for additional right thrust using the larger diameter/pitch prop compared to what is traditionally used on our 2 meter pattern aircraft? I recently placed a C50 12XL Hacker in an aircraft designed for a 90 two stroke and when pulling vertical, it acted as if I was holding quite a bit of left rudder.

Mike

Chip Hyde made an interesting comment about right thrust in his thread....he uses none! He says since the left pull of engine torque varies with power output no fixed amount of right thrust will ever be correct in all flight attitudes. Thus he builds all his planes with 0 right thrust and uses throttle-rudder mixing to cancel out torque effects.

Well, I would have to disagree with Chip's advice. I have never seen mixing of that sort really fix anything. Chip is a great pilot, but I don't agree with his theory on side thrust.

Here are a few more pics of the Partner. These two show the equipment and battery installation.

And here are two more of the color scheme.

So far, with only 6 flights on it, most in really poor wind conditions, I can't yet say if the thrust angle is absolutely correct. But I certainly have not yet seen a need for more then the stock amount. I'll get a better idea when I can really do some fine trimming on the model.

FLYERSG,

I suspect the model that you electrified may have had the incorrect thrust angle in the design. Had you ever flown one of those in the original glow version? It's very possible the glow had insufficient right thrust to start with. That is a common design flaw in many models.

Now to catch up on the lost sleep!

How do you charge the 10S4P pack ? Do you charge it completely or by sets of elements ?
What is the charger you use?
Regards
DV

Tony,

thanks a lot for the pictures!

They look fantastic and your paint job is killer!

Hope to see it in person one day..

Rob