Securing wing halves?
02-22-2005, 05:44 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eglin AFB, FL
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Securing wing halves?
I'm on the home stretch building a CG Finesse 1.20 and the plans call for rubber bands to secure the wing halves inside the fuse. I have tried a metal spring but it seems to soft... a quick roll might pull them apart enough to drop out of the alignment pins. What kind of fancy ways do you guys use to secure your wings together? Pics would be great. Wish I had thought of differential screws sooner...too late to install the blind nuts.
Thanks,
Steve
Thanks,
Steve
02-22-2005, 07:37 AM
#3
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
For my 90 sized plane, I use a 4-40 bolt threaded into the wing tube and the corresponding supporting plywood plate. This time I put the bolt on the upper side of the wing (so I don´t have to flip the plate to assemble it)
I tried a different approach in my Webra 1.60 powered Lazulite: one single alignment peg in the back, and a large plastic bolt secured to the root rib with a 5-ply wood plate between the peg and the wing tube. It is very easy to screw a ribbed plastic nut from the inside when you remove the canopy.
I tried a different approach in my Webra 1.60 powered Lazulite: one single alignment peg in the back, and a large plastic bolt secured to the root rib with a 5-ply wood plate between the peg and the wing tube. It is very easy to screw a ribbed plastic nut from the inside when you remove the canopy.
02-22-2005, 08:35 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Jonkoping, SWEDEN
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
Hi!
From a strength point of view rubber-bands or cable-ties are not a problem. I prefer those to metal springs or nylon bolts. Cable ties are dirt cheap and I simply cut them when removing the wings from the fuselage. Also, cable-ties are usually easier to secure than nylon bolts because in narrow fuselages screw driver access is often limited.
The forces are not excessive. A worst case scenario would be a high speed roll with no net lifting force from the wing (e.g. a vertical roll). Assuming a 2m wingspan (approx 79 in.) and a maximum roll rate of 2 turns per second the force trying to tear the wing off the aircraft is approximately 8 times the force of gravity, i.e. if the weight of a wing panel is 2 lbs, the maximum !QUOT!pull apart!QUOT! force will be 16 lbf. One or preferable two cable-ties will handle this force with ease.
In situations when the wing panels are producing a lifting force the situation would be better because the wing panel will press on the wing joining tube creating friction forces that will aid in keeping the wing panel attached to the fuselage.
/Red B.
From a strength point of view rubber-bands or cable-ties are not a problem. I prefer those to metal springs or nylon bolts. Cable ties are dirt cheap and I simply cut them when removing the wings from the fuselage. Also, cable-ties are usually easier to secure than nylon bolts because in narrow fuselages screw driver access is often limited.
The forces are not excessive. A worst case scenario would be a high speed roll with no net lifting force from the wing (e.g. a vertical roll). Assuming a 2m wingspan (approx 79 in.) and a maximum roll rate of 2 turns per second the force trying to tear the wing off the aircraft is approximately 8 times the force of gravity, i.e. if the weight of a wing panel is 2 lbs, the maximum !QUOT!pull apart!QUOT! force will be 16 lbf. One or preferable two cable-ties will handle this force with ease.
In situations when the wing panels are producing a lifting force the situation would be better because the wing panel will press on the wing joining tube creating friction forces that will aid in keeping the wing panel attached to the fuselage.
/Red B.
02-22-2005, 01:36 PM
#5
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: pyote,
TX
Posts: 953
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
if it is a foam core wing just get some 1/4 aluminum rod cut to about 8 inches long ,thread one end and glue into the core using probond and let it set up overnight and fit it to the same fuse holes. make the threads about one inch long and leave a small blank spot sticking out so the threads won't work on the fuse sides
02-22-2005, 06:13 PM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eglin AFB, FL
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
Thanks for the ideas guys!
blabla your method was considered but I could only do that after I have my wing adjusters set up properly..would not allow independent movement of each wing half to adjust for aileron trim.
Aresti yes the bolt might work here, i wonder if you just threaded the ply plate, or is it better to install blind nuts...hard to do now that the root ribs and wing are joined.
Red B I see what you mean about the forces involved...2 rolls in a second is way more than I would ever put this plane through (i think). I hadn't thought of using cable ties...I really like that idea..thanks!
3dd I have no idea what you are talking about. I understand the treaded rod part, but what secures it? Is there a nut inside the fuse???
Steve
blabla your method was considered but I could only do that after I have my wing adjusters set up properly..would not allow independent movement of each wing half to adjust for aileron trim.
Aresti yes the bolt might work here, i wonder if you just threaded the ply plate, or is it better to install blind nuts...hard to do now that the root ribs and wing are joined.
Red B I see what you mean about the forces involved...2 rolls in a second is way more than I would ever put this plane through (i think). I hadn't thought of using cable ties...I really like that idea..thanks!
3dd I have no idea what you are talking about. I understand the treaded rod part, but what secures it? Is there a nut inside the fuse???
Steve
02-22-2005, 06:28 PM
#8
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Agawam,
MA
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
ORIGINAL: Xrod
I understand the treaded rod part, but what secures it? Is there a nut inside the fuse???
Steve
I understand the treaded rod part, but what secures it? Is there a nut inside the fuse???
Steve
02-22-2005, 07:06 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: GeelongVictoria, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
Keep it simple.
Screw 2 hooks into the root rip, which should also have 1/4 ply plate bedhind the root rib, and just use 3 thick rubber bands. Have been doing it for over 10 years.
I always install the 1/4 inch ply plate before I install the root rib. But on an ARF that didn't have the 1/4 plate, I simply carefully cut a square about an inch out of the root rip, inserted and glued a 1/4 inch play plate and replaced the original root rib piece I had cut.
Works like a charm.
The Hooks I use are approx 1/2 to 3/4 inch in diameter.
Screw 2 hooks into the root rip, which should also have 1/4 ply plate bedhind the root rib, and just use 3 thick rubber bands. Have been doing it for over 10 years.
I always install the 1/4 inch ply plate before I install the root rib. But on an ARF that didn't have the 1/4 plate, I simply carefully cut a square about an inch out of the root rip, inserted and glued a 1/4 inch play plate and replaced the original root rib piece I had cut.
Works like a charm.
The Hooks I use are approx 1/2 to 3/4 inch in diameter.
02-23-2005, 02:12 PM
#12
Senior Member
RE: Securing wing halves?
Scott, I have been using this method for several years also. However, just last week I was doing a pre-spring check-up and found that lite ply brace that supports the fuse sides at the screw location, (essentially a cross-brace between the two sides) had a crack in it. Pretty surprising considering the relatively low outward load.
Don't like the screw through the wing tube method, nor the messy rubber band or o-ring methods
Need to re-think this. Needs to be simple and preferably, locks the wings when they are inserted without any additional work. Thinking spring loaded latch mechanism of some kind
MattK
Don't like the screw through the wing tube method, nor the messy rubber band or o-ring methods
Need to re-think this. Needs to be simple and preferably, locks the wings when they are inserted without any additional work. Thinking spring loaded latch mechanism of some kind
MattK
ORIGINAL: Scott Smith
Yes...a wing nut! I found some 1/4-20 nylon wing nuts at my local hardware store that will screw onto the 1/4-20 nylon stud secured in the wing root. I do need to come up with some simple method of safetying them however as there's not much thread drag.
ORIGINAL: Xrod
I understand the treaded rod part, but what secures it? Is there a nut inside the fuse???
Steve
I understand the treaded rod part, but what secures it? Is there a nut inside the fuse???
Steve
02-23-2005, 05:43 PM
#13
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Agawam,
MA
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
ORIGINAL: MTK
Scott, I have been using this method for several years also. However, just last week I was doing a pre-spring check-up and found that lite ply brace that supports the fuse sides at the screw location, (essentially a cross-brace between the two sides) had a crack in it. Pretty surprising considering the relatively low outward load.
Scott, I have been using this method for several years also. However, just last week I was doing a pre-spring check-up and found that lite ply brace that supports the fuse sides at the screw location, (essentially a cross-brace between the two sides) had a crack in it. Pretty surprising considering the relatively low outward load.
02-23-2005, 05:51 PM
#14
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HENDERSON,
NV
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
Hardware stores will also sell a nylon acorn-nut. This nut is put on after the wing nut and although it does not touch the wing nut. What it does is prevent the wing-nut from coming all the way off in flight if it comes a bit loose. You can finger-tighten the acorn nut and it will take some strength to get it to come off again.
I just did this to my IMPACTs. I also replaced the pre-installed nylon bolt with an aluminum 1/4 x 20 which is very light and has a bit more grip on the nylon wing nuts.
Lastly a gentle tease question for MTK. "Did you notice the crack before or after you practiced the Reverse Avalanche?"
I just did this to my IMPACTs. I also replaced the pre-installed nylon bolt with an aluminum 1/4 x 20 which is very light and has a bit more grip on the nylon wing nuts.
Lastly a gentle tease question for MTK. "Did you notice the crack before or after you practiced the Reverse Avalanche?"
02-23-2005, 06:02 PM
#15
Senior Member
RE: Securing wing halves?
LOL. Reverse Ava??? Not a chance. I'm doing the F3A thing this year. Far more graceful schedule this year compared to the Masters.
All kidding aside, I have done about 2 dozen Reverse Avas with Temptress and have noticed no other ill effects, and I am using an ally wing tube. I believe that if you install the sockets the way I've explained before, you won't notice a problem with your wings. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the load will transfer elsewhere, and will show up at the weakest spot of the plane
MattK
All kidding aside, I have done about 2 dozen Reverse Avas with Temptress and have noticed no other ill effects, and I am using an ally wing tube. I believe that if you install the sockets the way I've explained before, you won't notice a problem with your wings. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the load will transfer elsewhere, and will show up at the weakest spot of the plane
MattK
ORIGINAL: Eric.Henderson
Hardware stores will also sell a nylon acorn-nut. This nut is put on after the wing nut and although it does not touch the wing nut. What it does is prevent the wing-nut from coming all the way off in flight if it comes a bit loose. You can finger-tighten the acorn nut and it will take some strength to get it to come off again.
I just did this to my IMPACTs. I also replaced the pre-installed nylon bolt with an aluminum 1/4 x 20 which is very light and has a bit more grip on the nylon wing nuts.
Lastly a gentle tease question for MTK. "Did you notice the crack before or after you practiced the Reverse Avalanche?"
Hardware stores will also sell a nylon acorn-nut. This nut is put on after the wing nut and although it does not touch the wing nut. What it does is prevent the wing-nut from coming all the way off in flight if it comes a bit loose. You can finger-tighten the acorn nut and it will take some strength to get it to come off again.
I just did this to my IMPACTs. I also replaced the pre-installed nylon bolt with an aluminum 1/4 x 20 which is very light and has a bit more grip on the nylon wing nuts.
Lastly a gentle tease question for MTK. "Did you notice the crack before or after you practiced the Reverse Avalanche?"
02-23-2005, 06:03 PM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eglin AFB, FL
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
ozzie my wing roots are 1/8" light ply with the same material doubled on the back side, with small eye hooks installed with CA. Supposed to use rubber bands, but I just don't trust this. O rings sound good, but now I worry about the hooks pulling out.
MTK Here's a couple of ideas: Attach ball joints to the wing root and use a section of threaded rod with Sullivan spring loaded ball connectors on each end. Another.....thread an alluminum rod for two sizes of threaded rod on opposite ends, say 8-32 and 10-24, secure the threaded rods with the a stop nut against the aluminum rod. You now have a differential screw. Install the correct blind nuts behind the wing roots, different sizes on each wing. To install the wings first thread the finer thread rod (8-32) into the wing and run through the fuselage, mate up the other wing and start threading the larger screw (10-24). Yes the other side will start unthreading from the wing, but the courser thread causes one side to enter the wing faster than the other side unsrews. Result? Tightens the wing halves together'''fairly light and very strong. Hope all that made sense, If I had thought of this before I would have used it but it's too late to install blind nuts in my wing roots now.
Thanks all for the ideas.
Steve
MTK Here's a couple of ideas: Attach ball joints to the wing root and use a section of threaded rod with Sullivan spring loaded ball connectors on each end. Another.....thread an alluminum rod for two sizes of threaded rod on opposite ends, say 8-32 and 10-24, secure the threaded rods with the a stop nut against the aluminum rod. You now have a differential screw. Install the correct blind nuts behind the wing roots, different sizes on each wing. To install the wings first thread the finer thread rod (8-32) into the wing and run through the fuselage, mate up the other wing and start threading the larger screw (10-24). Yes the other side will start unthreading from the wing, but the courser thread causes one side to enter the wing faster than the other side unsrews. Result? Tightens the wing halves together'''fairly light and very strong. Hope all that made sense, If I had thought of this before I would have used it but it's too late to install blind nuts in my wing roots now.
Thanks all for the ideas.
Steve
02-23-2005, 06:13 PM
#17
Senior Member
RE: Securing wing halves?
Steve, the ball joint idea has some merit, but still requires actuation from the inside to install.
I'm thinking more in line of a slide-in of the panel and snap-on latching mechanism.
But thanks for the ideas. Lets keep them coming. We'll come up with a more elegant solution, I am certain of that
MattK
I'm thinking more in line of a slide-in of the panel and snap-on latching mechanism.
But thanks for the ideas. Lets keep them coming. We'll come up with a more elegant solution, I am certain of that
MattK
ORIGINAL: Xrod
ozzie my wing roots are 1/8" light ply with the same material doubled on the back side, with small eye hooks installed with CA. Supposed to use rubber bands, but I just don't trust this. O rings sound good, but now I worry about the hooks pulling out.
MTK Here's a couple of ideas: Attach ball joints to the wing root and use a section of threaded rod with Sullivan spring loaded ball connectors on each end. Another.....thread an alluminum rod for two sizes of threaded rod on opposite ends, say 8-32 and 10-24, secure the threaded rods with the a stop nut against the aluminum rod. You now have a differential screw. Install the correct blind nuts behind the wing roots, different sizes on each wing. To install the wings first thread the finer thread rod (8-32) into the wing and run through the fuselage, mate up the other wing and start threading the larger screw (10-24). Yes the other side will start unthreading from the wing, but the courser thread causes one side to enter the wing faster than the other side unsrews. Result? Tightens the wing halves together'''fairly light and very strong. Hope all that made sense, If I had thought of this before I would have used it but it's too late to install blind nuts in my wing roots now.
Thanks all for the ideas.
Steve
ozzie my wing roots are 1/8" light ply with the same material doubled on the back side, with small eye hooks installed with CA. Supposed to use rubber bands, but I just don't trust this. O rings sound good, but now I worry about the hooks pulling out.
MTK Here's a couple of ideas: Attach ball joints to the wing root and use a section of threaded rod with Sullivan spring loaded ball connectors on each end. Another.....thread an alluminum rod for two sizes of threaded rod on opposite ends, say 8-32 and 10-24, secure the threaded rods with the a stop nut against the aluminum rod. You now have a differential screw. Install the correct blind nuts behind the wing roots, different sizes on each wing. To install the wings first thread the finer thread rod (8-32) into the wing and run through the fuselage, mate up the other wing and start threading the larger screw (10-24). Yes the other side will start unthreading from the wing, but the courser thread causes one side to enter the wing faster than the other side unsrews. Result? Tightens the wing halves together'''fairly light and very strong. Hope all that made sense, If I had thought of this before I would have used it but it's too late to install blind nuts in my wing roots now.
Thanks all for the ideas.
Steve
02-23-2005, 06:31 PM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eglin AFB, FL
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
OK, here's another: a piece of music wire shaped into an elongated diamond, say 1 1/2" long by 3/4", with the loose ends secured in the wing halves. Perhaps two of these per wing. The fuse would then have a hole about 3/16" or so, maybe reinforced with brass or nylon. The wing will then push fit into the holes and secure it. The diomond spring will be forced together to fit through the hole, then expand again to secure it. The strength would be controlled by the diameter of the wire.
Steve
Steve
02-23-2005, 06:39 PM
#19
Senior Member
RE: Securing wing halves?
Yup, that's the idea. The apex of the "diamond" may be bent straight down rather than at an angle, such that the wing can't slide off on its own regardless of outward force. The "latch" would need to be unlatched after the flying is done for the day. This is good
MattK
MattK
ORIGINAL: Xrod
OK, here's another: a piece of music wire shaped into an elongated diamond, say 1 1/2" long by 3/4", with the loose ends secured in the wing halves. Perhaps two of these per wing. The fuse would then have a hole about 3/16" or so, maybe reinforced with brass or nylon. The wing will then push fit into the holes and secure it. The diomond spring will be forced together to fit through the hole, then expand again to secure it. The strength would be controlled by the diameter of the wire.
Steve
OK, here's another: a piece of music wire shaped into an elongated diamond, say 1 1/2" long by 3/4", with the loose ends secured in the wing halves. Perhaps two of these per wing. The fuse would then have a hole about 3/16" or so, maybe reinforced with brass or nylon. The wing will then push fit into the holes and secure it. The diomond spring will be forced together to fit through the hole, then expand again to secure it. The strength would be controlled by the diameter of the wire.
Steve
02-23-2005, 10:29 PM
#21
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakland,
CA
Posts: 796
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
ORIGINAL: Xrod
I'm on the home stretch building a CG Finesse 1.20 and the plans call for rubber bands to secure the wing halves inside the fuse. I have tried a metal spring but it seems to soft... a quick roll might pull them apart enough to drop out of the alignment pins. What kind of fancy ways do you guys use to secure your wings together? Pics would be great. Wish I had thought of differential screws sooner...too late to install the blind nuts.
Thanks,
Steve
I'm on the home stretch building a CG Finesse 1.20 and the plans call for rubber bands to secure the wing halves inside the fuse. I have tried a metal spring but it seems to soft... a quick roll might pull them apart enough to drop out of the alignment pins. What kind of fancy ways do you guys use to secure your wings together? Pics would be great. Wish I had thought of differential screws sooner...too late to install the blind nuts.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve,
I used O rings that I bought from Ace hardware - stronger than rubber bands. I used these on my Python which is a similar size to the Finesse. Attached are some pics of the o ring...
02-24-2005, 08:32 PM
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eglin AFB, FL
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
Derek, the o rings are something I will pick up for sure. I also need to do the same with my stab halves, and they look handy for a lot of things...holding down mufflers, etc.
Steve
Steve
02-24-2005, 11:13 PM
#23
Senior Member
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
Steve,
Are the fuse sides of your airplane (Patriot of some sort I'm assuming) oriented with the grain at 45* to the horizontal or am I just seeing things?
Are the fuse sides of your airplane (Patriot of some sort I'm assuming) oriented with the grain at 45* to the horizontal or am I just seeing things?
02-25-2005, 05:40 AM
#24
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Agawam,
MA
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
Yes (and yes.) The 1/16 balsa is at a 45 to the 3/32 outer sheet. And its a Patriot 3D.
The plans also call for hooks and rubber bands to secure the wings just ahead of the wing tube. Since I want the fuel tank on top of the wing tube, I went with the bolt where the front adjuster would normally be. (...how's that for staying on topic)
The plans also call for hooks and rubber bands to secure the wings just ahead of the wing tube. Since I want the fuel tank on top of the wing tube, I went with the bolt where the front adjuster would normally be. (...how's that for staying on topic)
02-25-2005, 03:28 PM
#25
Senior Member
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Securing wing halves?
I just realized I had a brain fart Scott, sorry about calling you Steve. [:'(]
I am horrible with names that are similar to other ones. I apologize. And thank you for the quick response.
I am horrible with names that are similar to other ones. I apologize. And thank you for the quick response.
