Eh, I was really only kiddin.....I am not really an excellent flier at all, infact, I am not really good. But I have a whole summer ahead of me to practise and have fun with a Synergy 90 and the Funtana.....both with gorgeus YS's by the way, which....ROCK!!!!
Summer holidays tomorrow, followed by three months of flying.....sweet.

Roberto...

When did you get a Synergy 90? You have too much cool pattern stuff for someone that's my age. IM MOVING TO IRELAND!!

I have not flown Pattern for quite a while but I am sure the Tony F. you guys are disagreing with is a much more accomplished pilot than most on this site. Also has flown everything from drones to Heli's. Tony is also a very accomplished builder as well.If my memory serves me right there is a guy from Argentina that Tony had in his home in Miamisburg,Ohio years ago and both were building planes together. Tony I just found a Challenge 11 in the box and am going to buy it just to have it. Also just moved back to southern Ca. Where are you flying? Believe me if Tony says it....it is because he has done it. I would take lessons from him all day long.Just my opinon. I think Tony even won a championship in Australia once!!!

Hi Guys,
I think that everybody got a part of the answer, due to the field and the plane you are flying.
Physical rules are the reality. You can not compare the residual idle trust from a 2stroke .60 on a relatively high wingloaded plane with a 11/8 prop and a 1.40 with a 15/12 or even 16/14. The theoretical braking speed of a 12 pitch prop at 2200rpm (whitch give around 2000 at zero airspeed) is around 25mph (40km/h) what is just above the stalling speed of a modern 10lbs F3A plane ( plane with a thrust to weight ratio well above one and a wing loading lower that the curare one!) It means that above that speed, the prop brakes, and below that 25mph, the prop pulls. At a relative slow approach speed, the stopped prop brakes around or more that at idle. (At higher speed, it's the opposite due to induced turbulences). About the roll out, when you land on a concrete runway, the stopped engine give you the shorter one, definitely. Just assist to a f3A competition, sometimes, you can see that even good pilotes got problems to stop the plane on 100m runway! The 1.4 is still pulling the ligh airframe! (Some people put foam against the wheels to brakes them) The grass field case is different, his braking action is good but mine is in so bad shape that I prefer to stopped the engine as I will not be able to taxi anyway with the small 2inch wheels and the prop clearance is too limited. About the big 4stroke on a soft engine mount, I don't like to hear those rough really low idlespeed vibrations, I can't imagine the useless stress that it puts on that so light structure, it hurts!
Just my 2 eurocents!
Sorry for the approximate english!
Have fun,
Ben

By the way,

Tony, I really appreciate your search for excellence.

Thanks for your dedication, involvement and proficiency.

And I like your bipe!
Ben, a bipelover

Benoit has the facts that I could not verbalise. I'm not the person to sift through prop rpm/thrust/speed data, but his broken English explaination fairly well explains why my rollouts with motor turning are longer than with motor off.

Mark

One of the guys at my club who has recently started flying pattern actually mentioned the 'shutting the engine off on final' thing to me recently. He's got a pretty good reason for doing it though......with his YS1.40DZ idling, it shakes the absolute sh*t out of the airframe I kid you not....it's scary to see how much this thing shakes. It's so bad that he doesn't even let it idle when he starts it.....gets it going and then it's up to 1/3 throttle or more until takeoff. I've seen a couple of other models with these 1.40DZ's in them.....one of them shook so much it spat the cowl off when it burped at idle I think that was due to the engine actually striking the inside of the cowl!

I shut down for the reasons of stopping the plane, and also, we're not allowed to run off the runway or we get a zero. In any direction. Just habit causing, I only do it with the pattern planes though. I have it set up on a switch though, as i think quite a few of us do. It's much easier to hit the switch than it is to mess with the trim. Well take care

Yep, I have a throttle cut switch programmed for all of my models. I only did it originally because I had to set it up for the helicopter (unless I wanted to put my finger over the exhaust.....no thanks!), but it's certainly handy to be able to shut the engine on anything down from the radio.

Hi,
E o' Callaghan wrote
" his reasoning was that it was one less thing to worry about for a student pilot trying to get the landing setup just right "

I also live in Ireland, was trained by a pattern buff and was told he cut the throttle for the same reason.

Do you fly mode 4 by any chance (ail on left) ?

I'm a pattern pilot and I primarily shut down the engine to avoid taking chucks out of the prop on touchdown. My Olympian Medal with retratcs have very little clearance so any compression or hard landings would cost me big bucks in carbon props.

Hope that helps.


Mark

How about this set up. Not my original idea, I believe it was Chis Lakin that showed me.

Instead of a kill engine switch, make it a kill in 8-10 seconds switch. This is a super low idle that provides great braking characteristics. If you hit the switch just as you enter the runaway area, you still have time to throttle up and go again if needed. Covering the aspects that Tony mentioned.

This RPM will vary, but try for 1500-1700 RPM, or even lower for some well tuned set ups.

Not for everyone, but I have been using this for years. I like taxiing back on a good field.

So, how about it guys? Is anyone willing to enlighten me or do I have to take up pattern flying to find out?

Hi,,Im New to this forum,, But not new to pattern,, And this topic touched me enough to respond
I had always wondered years ago about killing the engine during the landing until one very scarey day.
Although,, i used to ALWAYS taxi back to my pit area, One day,, Murphy peeked around my shoulder i guess, Taxing back with my old pheonix 8 with an old OS fsr and mac pipe,, magically at about 20 feet from myself, the throttle servo decided to run a muck~!!
instantly, i had a monster nipping its way at me as it left the ground,it impacted And TOTALED my old goldberg handi tote .
From that day on, i have always killed my motor on landing,, I just felt like murphys always watching,, And honestly,,,,
The thought of the newer 16-17 inch props, with todays great horsepower engines faceing myself or the pit area running just kinda scares me,,, But,, I admit, theres alot of valid reasons to,, or not to kill the motor,, But ME,,, Kill or learn to duck fast is my motto!!
trout

After reading all these "answers", I've come to the conclusion that killing the engine is NOT a bad thing. Anyway I have been killing mine after I turn down the taxi way -what's the difference.

I've been doing it by pulling the idle trim all the way back.
Been thinking about a kill switch for a while. I've only read of using the gear switch, but my new plane will have retracts and I don't want to set up any plane with the gear switch doing something else ( I KNOW I'D END UP TRYING TO DO THE OTHER ON MY EXPLORER( retract plane) AT THE WRONG TIME

What switch do you guys use. I know there are still a lot of you with planes with retracts - so do you use a kill switch -or not?

thanks
Eddie

I use one, simply cause I can.

Best answer yet.

I can't speak for the 4-strokers, but I fly 2-strokes, and all my engines are painstakingly adjusted to idle as slow a speed as is practical to keep the plug lit and transition good. When flying pattern in either practice or in contest conditions, I never killed my engine (on purpose anyway ), just trimmed the idle back to a slow tickover on final.
I'd much rather have a running engine and not need it than a dead engine and need it running. Like Tony sez, it really limits your options otherwise.
Taxiing is why our airplanes have wheels. Otherwise, why not just bungee launch and belly land? Nothing wrong with taxiing, where applicable. Beats walking out for it when you don't have to.

Landing deadstick is for newbies and control-liners.

Rick

Yeah I saw Roland (or Wolfgang) Matt cutting the engine, what a newbie!!!!

Yeah...one day he'll become skilled enough that he doesn't have to do that...

I was just expressing my own opinion here...like we all do. If Mr. Matt wants to cut his engine on landing, it is his own choice. I prefer not to. Likewise, if he puts one of his big TOC planes into the dirt because of flying thru a wind shear over the threshold, dodging someone out on the runway, or something while deadstick, he can certainly better afford to replace his airplane than I can.
As far as the thing about showing how much control I have over my airplane and it's engine goes, I choose to display control of the engine after it's down and taxied back off the runway. Control is control, whether I exercise it in the air on final or on the deck.
I just see more reasons to leave the engine running than not to.

I don't really understand why this is an issue at all.

Rick
Rick

That's really good idea Bob. Since Chris flies JR I guess it's something that you can do on a 10X (which is what I have). Would you care to explain how to program something like that? That is really interesting Thanks!

Dont think thats something you programme , what i think Bob meant thet you set the idle so low that it will cut after 8-10 seconds because idle is too low

I could say that it was because there is a throttle cut switch on my radio, but the truth is, this is an ecological answer to pollution control. Or maybe it is because of the price of fuel, or maybe I accidentally hit that switch, thank God I don't have a snap switch programmed.

Well my opinions are my opinions, but my reasons are purely because I don't want to run off runways that are short. Practice makes perfect on doning that. Don't need any zero's in my flight. Plus my low prop clearance and my YS 140L shakes my plane to death. Don't need that .......And I think i read ElectRick's stuff and it seems to me that it takes more skill to be able to shut down the plane and hit the runway everytime than to leave it running just in case you have to go around. What skill is that? Going around... No thanks. I don't even mind walking out the 50 or so feet it takes to go get my plane either. Good exercise. I also don't mind getting up to turn the tv on if I can't find the remote. LOL

OK Now wait a minute, Isn't that why some of us married ,, LOL

This is really a great idea.
I have allways used the "kill before touchdown" method.
The reason was at first to reduce risk of injury. If you hit yourself (a sudden wind gusp etc.) the damage is a lot less without a rotating prop. Later I have used it to save props. At our field wind allways brings some sand on the paved runway. The less you run the engine the less abrasive it is to the prop.

Well, after reading this thread I reprogrammed my TX. Now I have a 3-pos switch in front for normal idle, 1800 1/min. Mid position is for low idle, 1300 1/min, and the last position kills the engine. It works like charm, it's almost like cheating, landing is so easy with improved braking. After landing the engine still runs, has never stopped during approach. If I want I can taxi it back, also I can add power if needed. The engine is OS 1.40RX .

I have Futaba 9 ZAP. I copied the normal condition, separated throttle trim for that, and voilá. I can trim idle for both conditions, other trims are combined.


Thanks, guys! It was worth reading this. You allways learn something.

ini