Now I see why the people in the classic pattern forums get tired of him.

Tim

OK, when the discussion comes to real airplanes then this might be meaningful, however, we are talking about toy airplanes, and more specifically the merits of electric versus glow power in radio controlled aerobatic airplanes.

With respect to dead stick landings, I am fairly adept at them with models. Besides pattern (and previously IMAC) I flew mostly thermal duration and giant scale gliders. Here in the US our landing tasks for soaring events is a great deal more demanding than the FAI circle. In our landings the difference of the width of a blade of grass can be the difference between a 100 point landing and a zero point landing.

I also have done hundreds of flights on my 4.3 meter ASW-27 and 6 meter ASH-6. So landing without power is really a non-event for me.

As far as educating me on real planes, I don't know what to tell you. I am licensed by the FAA for single engine airplane (ASEL) and gliders (aerotow and winch). All of my glider landings have been without power!!

So it is safe to say that I have more than a passing familiarity with landing both radio controlled and full size aircraft without power. Perhaps now you can enlighten me with information on where you think I require additional education in the matter.

The screen name "Silent AV8R" was not some fluke.

good thread,
I have had one maybe two pattern planes in my 30+ years of flying. I fly for fun only, no competition. Cox u-control as a teenager. My first 2 channel Rc was an Ace wizard with a Cox Golden Bee, then a cox .09 Medallion with THROTTLE control. I like 'em all. My bigger planes are glow, and my smaller park flyers are electric. Have a 71" Yak 54 with a SPE 43cc gasser on the way. Gasser will be a new adventure for me. Am hoping it will be here tomorrow. The big gasser will be easier to see. I enjoy all aspects of the hobby. Love the smell of glow, the ease of a park flyer at the church parking lot, or school field. Don't want to spend the money on larger size 'lectrics, but that's just me. I love to tinker too. Kit bash. Design and build. Whip out a small foamie on my coffe table while watching TV. It's all good. Live and Let Live.
My $.02 worth, don't spend it all in one place!
Al

Hey everyone,

I used to fly electric only have one electric plane left and it is for sale. The cost of flying electric to me is more costly then flying glow planes. Plus there is no waiting just land gas up and go again. I hated waiting on batteries to charge (yes I had a number of batteries as back up. When you fly multiple days in a row the time it takes to recharge your batteries is crazy and time consuming. When I was flying electric there wasn't as many choices of aircraft to choose from. That has changed now and it to late for me to go back I have 12 glow planes now and will continue to fly those. I am not interested in going back to charge and fly. Batteries also go bad in time that is costly. When I was flying electric I thought there was nothing better once I started flying glow I realized glow is where it's at for me. Whenever you get into larger aircraft to spend a couple of hundred on batteries is just not to smart in my case. I love the smell of glow also.

SO FOR ME GLOW FOREVER!!!!!

Pete

Joe,

Why would I convert to electric? Why would I do that?

Quote: "when the discussion comes to real airplanes then this might be meaningful, however, we are talking about toy airplanes..."
__________________________________________________ _______

"A "toy aeroplane" is something that you wind-up and it rolls across the floor.
What you are pleased to call a 'real aeroplane' does not have to be designed
as well as a model aeroplane...because there is a pilot on-board to correct
for the errors by trimming the control surfaces as necessary."
Heinrich Dorfmann (The Flight of The Phoenix)

If you haven't seen the original movie with Jimmy Stewart and Hardy Kruger.....you should.

Silent AV8R,

When flying an engine powered model airplane, we have to be aware of the fact that any moment the engine can quit. Electrical or glow powered.
So fly on altitudes you can reach a safe place on any moment and fly a decent circuit when landing the plane.

I am not only talking about rescue the plane, also because of the safety of the other people.

When flying the real planes it is clever not to fly in positions it is impossible to reach a safe place with a dead stick, practice for that, and again also for other people!

When making a tow start (winch) with a glider it is possible you can get in trouble, when breaking of the tow. So always be aware of height during takeoff to make the choice to land “in line� or make a short circuit.
When flying gliders always have attention for ground circumstances, wind speed and direction, obstacles in case you are forced to land in the “field�.

When I read you write:

"I especially like never having to think about the engine dying while flying. The end of the dead stick as we know it!!"

You want make people believe you cannot have a dead stick with a electrical plane, and the glower does playing “Russian Roulette�.
Because you are a “real pilot" you know this is nonsense! Only trying to win!
When you use these argumentation in the real airplane, I do find you a bad pilot and will not fly with you! You must be aware of mechanical or other failures motor plane or glider!!


Prove?

You write:
"Here in the US our landing tasks for soaring events is a great deal more demanding than the FAI circle. In our landings the difference of the width of a blade of grass can be the difference between a 100 point landing and a zero point landing."
Look the picture, 2 m contest glider, designed by me especially for spot landings (1975/1980, runway 0 m). So these are all “controlled landings� without any risks.
I still have the plane now!!!

So argumentations “the width of a blade of grass�, you only use again for trying to win!
Nonsense in this thread.


Cees

petepmiles, the highlichted parts of your post becausue these are also the mainreason the give "Backpressure".
My 30 years old ENYA 60 4 C is as powerfull as a new engine!
When someone gives you a glowengine be happy, when someone gives you a betterypack, throw it away!

Cees

Good for you. I hope you will not be offended by knowing that I could care less about your completely uniformed opinion in this regard.

Go Bill!

Ryan, you are right.

I mostly start a post by repeating the name of the person who is answerring.
I think that better to for the discussion.
See how he did start his first post in this thread:35!
And then this argumentation:"So pick your poison and go fly."
Is his name Bill?

Cees

This thread is just too funny...

mjfrederick

Don't you think also that it is better to use only real arguments.
When you follow the safety rules, glow is as safe as electrical. Even the sound of glow is a warning and the feedback you still have "power".
I also can show a glider I did build, 4,5 m ASK18, 28 years old now, picture of a few weeks back, but that is no argumentation, only to impress.

Cees

Hey mj,
(This thread is just too funny... )
Gotta agree with ya. Spelling has a temper and there is quite a bit of editing too damn it!!!!!!!! LOL
Give me a barrel of stuff and a stick. Ya know I'm gonna stir it no matter how bad it smells!

And I thought for sure I would have gotten some tempers flaring when I posted what I did back on page 2... Oh well, I tried...

Well, yeah, but those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. Obviously the guy likes electrics, so he spins the data in such a way that makes it viable in his mind. The way I see it, it comes down to what you already have your time, money, and knowledge invested in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid of learning new things and I do own a small electric plane and helicopter, but when it comes to my pattern planes, I want a smoke trail that isn't coming from a puffed battery. On his comment about no more deadsticks, I've seen a couple dead-sticks with electrics, one of which resulted in a complete loss, and the other one was close. The reason for this being that the batteries are so heavy they have to be used to balance the airplane. If the battery comes loose there's a darn good chance you'll lose propulsion, and you now have an airplane that is severely out of trim and in some cases unflyable.

To JCINTEXAS ,
GREAT movie Flight of the Pheonix. Young German guy with glasses and a SLIDE RULE. I'm old enough to remember B+W TV. Still watch B+W reruns!
MJ, Don't give up, here's a stick. The barrels coming!

I can smell it...

mjfrederick,

The Orion does make about 200 flights now and did have at least 8 deadsticks.
Because the engine did have some troubles after I did buy it for 65 Euro and before overhauling, he did quit a lot of times in the beginning.

The sound of the engine is the most important feedback.
No sound, so keep speed.
Next step is "bail out" or trying to "save the plane", always the second point.
Gear up or gear down, depending on location of touch down.
Landing between the cows gear up.
Landing on the field gear down, but to much speed and no barriër, gear up again.

You have to be prepared for everything that can happen on any moment, flying engine powered airplanes, and be lucky the plane still is flyable!
I even did touch the ground with the propeller in a full speed low pass, with gear up, so, no problem!
It became a landing with gear up between the cows.
Two times a landing in a tree (treeing?) and I was lucky he didn't drop down!

Price of this plane! Scratch build and not more than 250 Euro inclusive the engine. (no radio)
Span, 1,75 m about 4,5 kg ! Engine, second hand ENYA 60 4C.
Construction all wood, at least more wood than battery!.
After overhauling the engine no more deadsticks just as nearly with my modern two strokes (one time!)

Cees


BTW, When I did read this somewere in the thread: remember when 4-strokes first came out people resisted them at first because they were "different". Nobody blinks an eye now.
I thought: "I did forget write one fact: All my planes, silk and dope covered, I resist using modern materials already for many years. Only proven quality I buy, even second hand! So there will never be electric propulsion, also not in the future!"

Maybe if the men in white coats are reading this thread, someone will be taken away.

Who do you think? F.

You are good for point 6

6) Ease of changing power systems

Do you have a truck?

Cees

To be clear I currently have flying 3 full composite thermal duration gliders (Sharon Pro, NYX, Topaz-RES), a DLG (Blaster), two giant scale gliders (4.3 meter ASW-27 and a 6 meter ASH-26), a 35% Extra 330 (DA100), 40% Extra 330 (DA150), Raptor 50 (OS 50 Hyper), and a Raptor 90 (YS 90). And HORROR of HORRORS I have THREE electric planes - Abbra 2-meter 10S pattern plane, 3.1 meter all composite Graphite F5J glider, and a ParkZone Corsair. So looking at my hangar most of my planes are NOT electric.

When it comes to boats I have 5 gasoline powered race boats, and 5 fast electric boats, so a slight tip to electric in the boat end of things.

So no spin needed to look at data and arrive at an informed conclusion. I have a fairly varied background in a variety of aspects of this hobby and see the pros and cons of each.

Oh well, like I said, pick your poison and fly what you like.

Bill,

This is a discussion about pro's and contra, electric vs glow.

I understand you never could make a decision yourself.
The truck is clear to me, you can delay your decision untill to moment you arrive on the location.
I do not have that possibilitye, fly still with my 30 years old transmitter and cheap glowers!.

Cees

I will get the measuring stick...boys put em on the table.

DreamingTree1024

Money?


Cees