Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

I'll post some of the work required in converting an Electric Vanquish to gasoline power. This will deal only with the engine and pipe set-up and not the whole build. Archie did a fine job with that so no need to revisit it

If I like the way thisversion flies I just might take all the covering off it and silkspan and paint it. Great thing about this model is that the sheeting is whole. Only the control surfaces have holes which are easily covered with polyspan tissue.

All up weight looks like around 10 1/2 lbs RTF. A bunch of places weight may be shaved off but would require new molds for stuff. Haven't decided IF I'll persue that route.

The engine is a PTE36 rear exhaust. The soft mount is a custom type I build, based on the Hyde/Pastomount. The nose ring will be installed in the stock cowl, except the cowling needs reinforcement and better attachment to the fuse than the E version.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Sweet!

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Hello Matt

Great !
you writes
"I just might take all the covering off it and silkspan and paint it. "
Why ?
Claude

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Can't wait to see how you put a nose ring in that light cowl, Matt!! But I know you will solve the problem.

Eagerly awaiting your reports,

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Thought that would catch your attention wildwillie

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Claude,I "hate" plastic film covered Pattern Planes. Plastic film is for trainers in my opinion. BUT, it all depends on whether I want to put in the time. One good thing, the film on the Vanquish is easy to peel off

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

I'll post some photos tonight on how I've captured the cowl. Much more secure than the original. Both the cowl and canopy are heavier than I want or is needed. But I probably won't build new molds for those parts unless the plane comes out too heavy.

The biggest issue is the prop drive hub....it is larger than the crankcase so the nose ring will be designed as a two piece unit.....

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

That model could look great with a lot of different paint jobs.
Chris...

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Lets do a show and tell. Stand offs are 2 inches long. Total length to the back of mount is 6 11/16"

Firewall is 1/4" X grained balsa carbon sandwich. This is trulyelementary to make is you have a Food Saver vacuum packer or similar set-up. I have one for food and one for toy airplane stuff.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Some more; The front end of the VQ has lots of room to install the engine ready placed on its soft mount from thetop. Made fitting and locating simple

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

More; Once happy with the location, the tack glued FW is knocked off and set up withhard points and blind nuts. Also, the center area is removed shaving some more weight. Basically, the front firewall bulkheadsection I removed from the nose weighed 60 grams. The new FW and reinforcements weighed 30 grams....I'll take it

Edit I made a pipe tunnel yesterday...weighs35 grams. Removing the front end and replacing for gasoline, including the pipe tunnel, was essentially a wash. I'll post some pics as I conclude the sections. The tunnel was straight forward glass tube with appropriately located reinforcements to maintain shape and take the pipe mount

Canopy clears nicely

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Cowl needs better reinforcement and mounting. The way the VQ is done, it makes this task simple. The cowl will eventually house a nose ring so a better mount than stock E-type is required

In the second photo you can see where the fuse sides were covered over with some 1/32" A/C ply. The stock sides are 1/16" laser cut ply, heavily cut to save weight. It works on the electric but I didn't want to take a chance on this conversion. It adds 3 grams but adds tremendous strength to the original ply

It's a good idea to reinforce the fuse top by adding a cross top of lite ply, boxing the front end in. Even soft mounted, engines shake of course so judicious use of reinforcement is a must for long fuse life

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Hi Matt...
What happened to the Syssa?
The last I heard was that Todd was going to develop the engine a bit more for more torque or something like that.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Dave,

Todd Syssa I believe made a good business decision not to pursue a Pattern engine. His current engine is a great little sport engine that's selling well to sport fliers. I tried to apply it to Pattern needs but it juuuust wasn't quite there.....

Some of the current offerings in this size range are excellent for Pattern apps. Good ability to turn large props and good torqueat mid throttle. The OS33GT is a great example of that. Although I'd love to see OS come out with a rear exhaust 33. It would be perfect for anything we currently fly

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Hello Matt

Which exhaust system will you install ?
I'm looking for a rear exhaust header for this PTE36R .
Claude

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Claude,

The OS140RX header fits nicely, except the mounting holes need slight modification. They need to be opened for M5 mounting bolts and moved out about 1mm on each side.

<span style="font-size: larger">EDIT: The Macs header for the OS140RX ,not the 2 piece one OS makes..... Actually Macs makes 3 headers for 30-40 cc rear exhaust gas engines as shown on their website. It may be that one of them would be a drop in choice. I'll measure the bolt CL dimensions of the exhaust flange and see if one of them will work

</span>I'm planning to use a Mintor pipe on mine. I will start with an XOAR 19x10 laminated prop for break in and move up from there if the engine can tolerate it.... I'll post some photos when I have progressed enough with the pipe tunnel to warrant it

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Wow! O.S. 140RX header for $75.99? I'm aware that as a sport flier I may be a little out of place looking for bargains in a pattern forum but I was hoping that a piece of bent tubing with a flange on one end would not be very expensive.
Does anyone know if the $35.00 JMB Header for the ZDZ 40RE will match up with the PTE36R exhaust?
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items...HEADER-25.html

It looks like no one is willing to make headers specifically for the new rear exhaust gas engines that have hit the market.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

I really love what you do MTK... apart from leading the gasser charge, you're really cutting the edge here.
Most of us have a problem sticking a gass engine into a molded CF F3A plane and here you are adding one to a balsa stick ePlane... with a dodgy cowl!
Great stuff.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

looks good!
can't wait to see some pics of the pipe tunnel framed up!

tony

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Thank you David!

Some folks had argued against the move last year, however when I looked at Archie Stafford's electric Vanquisha coupleyears agoI saw a strong balsa and plyframe that was very similar to my EF Extra 78". ThatExtra was my test bed for a DLE55 on pipe so I felt the VQ frame was strong enough for a much less powerful engine such as a 30cc class. Besides, I've been building airplanes for 44 years...I think my judgement and engineering are sound

Unless they did something goofy with the wing build, I seriously doubt I'll have much problem.

Current gas engines in this size range have turned out to be much better than I had thought. Manufacturers have figured out what makes these smaller gassies powerful and forgiving at the same time. The OS33GT is a prime example

Soft mounting is a must of course to get vibes and sound under control. If anyone wants to tackle gasification, I strongly suggest that one should learn how to build the soft mount first. The problem is that no two engines have the same mounting footprint; every mount is custom made to fit each engine. That's not a pita, for me it's part of the fun. But having to fork over a couple hundred dollars to Hyde foreach custom mount I've made would have taken the fun out of it

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Okie dokie,,, I used one and half sheets of 1/32 medium balsa. The stringers are 3/32 spruce. I'll be glassing and painting the tunnel tomorrow.

The battery floor was carved up as shown. An 8-10 oz tank doesn't need all that structure to stay put. Yes an 8 oz tank for this size engine flies the crate for about 13 minutes, almost long enough for 2 Masters schedules

The aluminum pipe is from Mintor. It's compact and light at less than 5 ozs. The ESComposites works also, but it's longer than the Mintor and the tunnel would have needed more surgery. Mintor pipe is about half the price of the ESC pipe so, IF YOUCAN FIND ONE, scarf it up. OR let me know because I want a few more of them

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

And the pipe mount treatment. I use one Lord mount to hold the pipe.

The balsa was undercut to recess most of the Lord into the fuse. Nothing fancy is needed here. A piece of 3/32" A/C ply inside the fuse with drilled and tapped mounting hole works fine and has stood the test of many a flight. A blind nut is not necessary. Try it!

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Hello Matt

How did you install the balsa tunnel ?
Is it possible to install this composite tube shown in picture (diameter 50 mm, lenght 900 mm) ?
Claude

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Claude,

I opened the belly and built the tunnel in place. The tunnel is rectangular. I used CA for the gluing.

I also built a cylindrical glass tube first.But once I tried putting it in and played with the pipe and header a little to figure out how it would work,it occurred to me that pipe installation to the header might be a problem. So I decided to scrub the glass for the balsa.

The way I have it now I can assemble the pipe and header first, off the plane, and install itfully assembled

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Good tip. Thanks.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Hello

Friend of mine told me that exhaust header forZDZ 4O RE is the same as PTE36R except dimension HF (see picture)
Dimensions HF of PTE36R is 15 mm.
Header :
I think it's easier to machine it.
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items...HEADER-25.html

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Claude and all,

Just a quick heads ups....The Macs header for the OS140RX has the exact bolt spacing needed for the PTE36. The exhaust port is also practically identical.

I checked this with a new header I had laying around. Apparently the old header I was using was a Webra header so what I stated earlier about needing some relocating of the bolt holes is wrong. The MACS OS140RX header is a drop in fit. The only thing it will need is to drill out the holes to accept M5 bolts (original holes are for M4)

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

thats good news.

have you run the pte36 before, or will this one be a first for you matt?

tony

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

No, it's the first one. Can't vouch at all for anything pertaining to this powerplant. It's pretty cheap engine at $270 so it was a no brainer to get one for testing

My original intent was to run the OS in the plane. But since I had the PTE on hand as well as the header, why not? Plus the rear exhaust configuration really makes it elementary.

On the other hand, I made mounting the soft mount common to both engines so I have options just in case the PTE is inadequate. The OS is a known at this point

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Here are a few more photos of the structural conversion. Triangle stock placed in strategic places. Then 1 layer of 4 oz glass epoxied around the firewall and the box sides, as shown.

The added lite ply top with cross members will keep the top side from flexing too much

All holes in the front of the fuse will be covered over with paper to better channel hot air away from inside the fuse

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Decided to also add doublers just aft of the landing gear box. This areaonly had a 1mm plywood perimeter as shown in one of the photos.It may not really need any other reinforcement but I felt that with the balsa sheeting only 3mm thick in this area, a bit more balsa is likely warranted.

Added 3mm doublers as shown, recessing the edgesto sit flush againstthe 1mm plywood perimeter frame. Recessing was simple with a sanding block. I probably used more gorilla glue than necessary as shownby the foamed glue around the edges of the doubler

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

For what it's worth, I just purchased a Piedmont Focus 2 with a Syssa 30 in it and if the PTE runs anywhere near what the Syssa does in terms of power, Oh My Gosh it will be a bullet!
I have never owned a pattern ship, but after watching a fellow hobbyist put the focus 2 thru it's paces, I just had to have it. Amazing speed and quite literally unlimited vertical. That joker will get out of site in a hurry, accelerating straight up.

I didn't have a way to bring her hoime from the field after striking the deal, but I should have her in my hangar sometime this week. You pattern guys and the ships you fly are simply.... AMAZING.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

The SAP180 is a great engine. I've done a whole thread on it alone. Learned an awful lot about gas engines in this size from the SAP experience. Still have one on hand.....Good luck with your set-up...

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Back to the topic at hand.....During the fitting of the stab I encountered a problem that any of you guys contemplating the Vanquish as your next ride should know about. The set-screws used for stab adjustment would not go in easily so I chased the threads with an M4 tap, The adjustment block inside the stab is aluminum so you don't want to cross thread anything here.

Well, the first side worked fine. Chasing threads is a simple task and should be done where ever one encounters resistance in existing threads, cleaning them up rather than X-threading them

The second side was a different issue..... the aluminum block came off inside the stab. Easy enough to take out and inspect the part. One small screw was allit was held by, plus some adhesive, possibly ca. It just wasn't enough to hold the torque of the tap and popped off.

No big deal and actually I'm kinda glad it happened on my bench. The aluminum block has two mounting holes so I am tapping these for some 4-40 screws and reinstalling the part with a pair of flat heads through the root ply rib. I'll take a few photos and show you what I did

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Here's what I did... Tapped the aluminum block. The ears are about 2mm thick so there are enough threads to hold things together. The 4-40 flat heads make for a neat install. Also some JB-weld will hold things together long term

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

The model is unbelievably light.....I musta missed something....Just10 # rtf,with an XOAR 19x10laminated woodie.Very nice

If this model was converted to an OS140RX, it would weigh 9 1/2 lbs...very sporty. Except the 140RX can't haul big props

BTW Shaved 35 grams from the landing gear and decided to build a mold for the modified landing gear. I prefer a lighter, springier gear that absorbs the energy rather than transfering it to the frame. Strength is fine

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Wow, excellent weight at this point!

I know you hate plastic, but do you still plan to re-cover?

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Just thought i would add, that my Dad bought a pte36 and todayi test flew it for himin a 80+ inch arf pt 19.
it acts like it was pre run by the factory or redwing before he got it. it started right up and idled perfectly and ran very strong at full throttle. we didnt even adjust the needles, i didn't think we could have made it better it ran so well.
no ground running besides the first start and run of a couple of minutes and then we refueled it and flew it.
the pt had unlimited vertical at full throttle but looked more like a big yellow P51 speed wise (i'm surprised we didn't blow the pilots out of the open cocpits). it flew better at less than half throttle (a little more scale at that speed) i think he had a zoar 19-8 on it.and it pulled that easy.
instant throttle response from idle andinstant response from half throttle.
it is clearly the best gas engine i have run recently.
i might be putting one in place of my ys170 soon
Dave.

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Bob,

Yeah, at some point Ithink I'lldo that. First I want to see how it flies and what else I need to change whenI peel the plastic off.

One thing I see right off is the leading edge of the wing...just too blunt for my taste. And wing adjusters....

One thing at a time. Heck it may not live long enough if the radio goes south

RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish
 

Does this plane still have the chin cowl? or is it a 1 piece cowl now?