best_panther

Hi Rino

I send the radio and the receiver to Horizon so, If they tell me something I will tell you.

Thanks
Richard

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

Then you must have a miserable life as consumer electronics are littered with poor designs or glitchy software.
Not saying its good that way but its a fact.

If you fly a poor quality pack and dont charge it properly as seems to be the norm I have no sympathy for you.
I have been using the DX on a 35%, a 28% and a big old Robin Hood and the odd glow thingy and have yet to see a glitch but my power systems can all sustain 3amps at least.

This same issue causes Digital servos to lock up on 4.8v so you will surely come down if the reciever doesnt get you

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

GeeBeeJim, and others who "Understand" (and aren't frustrated design idealogues)..... Spektrum emailed me this article.
Worth reading for those who want to know.

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Articles/A...ArticleID=1683

rmh

If you can't get the battery thing squared away , you should not be flying these things .
The criteria is easy to understand as it can all be proven on a bench -you don't even need to leave the house.
I made up a really simple load device for testing batteries - using good ol 1157 tail light bulbs . each bulb pulls about 2 amps depending on the battery voltage being applied.
The cells shown here are A123 cells , which don't even flinch at the load .
Horizon's warning is almost word for word what many of us have been suggesting for a long time.
The RX is not the real problem -the real problem is the battery loads have increased very rapidly in the last few years .
Blame 3D flying (whatever that is ) or very fast jets -or very large models .
The need for speed (catchy) or fast maneuvering has made the sales of bigger better faster servos very easy.
Did you know that when a car runs out of gas -it does not simply run slowly? It quits.

AWorrest

My Feedback: (5)

When I first flew my DX7, I put it in a 40-size sport plane to check it out. I used the 4.8v Nicad battery and the DS821 servos that came with the system. It flew without a glitch. I'll be moving the system to a 120-size pattern plane. In it I'll be using dual 5-cell NiMH batteries because I'll have too much invested in the plane, equipment, and engine to take any chances. What battery system you need depends on what you are flying. The stock system is adequate for smaller airplanes.

Allan

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Correct, Allan, but **only** if one is watching the battery condition, knows the relative "discharge rate" of their setup, the "flat duration" of their discharge curve, etc. Unfortunately, ** most ** do not know, and do not want to put that amount of effort into "learning".

This game has become such a "plug and play" mentality that it is rapidly approaching not being a "craft" or "hobby", but instead just a "playtime" where folks become offended, to the point of B & M' ing if they have to "do" something.

Heaven forbid they must actually "learn" something, and then "maintain" a system.

Guess that's too much to ask for the 21st Century post-boomers.

rmh

Bob we should not be too surprised at the general attitudes -- the idea of plug n play and "entitlement" is promoted heavily via tv and groups who want one not to think - just BUY!!
The police who once told offenders that "ignorance of the law is no excuse ", now have to be sure they don't offend lazy dumb bast-ards.

Ed

Bravo Bobby, and thanks for the article. Glad to see the solution in print by someone other then Dick Hanson, or myself. ............

Adios

> Jim

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

Hey Guys...here's a new item to look into. The Spektrums antenna has a small guage wire running inside that little plastic folding antenna. In another venue, such devices are experiencing failures, due to the wire becoming fatigued over time with frequent folding and unfolding...and I assume also some twisting action.
I had previously thought that the antenna worked on a simple universal joint that maintained conductivity.....but apparently that is not the case. So...what are the thoughts on this item? Should the antenna be left extended forever and never ever moved? I can live with that, but I would have to go back to the larger transmitter case.
jim

rmh

---

FliteMetal

That's a good likeness there Dick ;^)

Crash One

My Feedback: (42)

That made my evening!

Sukhoi4Me

Guys, sorry if this has been asked, Can you use the AR9000 with a DX7? I searched back to page 83 and didn't see an answer. I did an initial search and it brought me to this thread, but no specific answer. Thanks for your patience.

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

Hi Dick..I have seen that photo before...very cute...it's being sent all around the internet. I guess it is as good an answer to the question as we'll ever get.

T-bolt-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Help,
It has probably been answered before but can anyone tell me why my Spektrum won't bind? I connected it as per instructions, lights blinked turned on transmitter pressing binding button on transmitter, lights on receiver became solid, but as soon as I pulled out the binding plug both receivers shut down.
Thanks, John

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

Turn both tx and rx off before unplugging binding plug, then turn them on and see if they are bound.

T-bolt-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
Thanks, works fine now.

gooseF22

YES.
the 9000 works with DX7. Everything works with everything, all the time. it just works. Modules, new JR DX9. all of it. Go to troybuilt models page and see Gene's independent testing of the modules. They unequivocally state that they are finished with 72Mhz. As AM I, as soon as I buy enough receivers, and another DX9

Binding....Both off first, plug in. rx on...lights blink.....tx on while holding button......hold for about 5-10 seconds or until lights go solid.....should work immediately.......both off....plug out....RX on first....Tx on.....should work within a few seconds.......IF it doesn't.....Change models, copy programming over to new model and rebind..... I dont know what to do after that because it has always worked. Be careful not to hit the bind button or lay the Tx on the button during normal ops right when you turn it on, because it will then need a rebind.

Jim, I wonder too. I religiously do range checks for that reason. That's the weak link in the system I think.I just leave mine folded and on one side and dont move it. I prefer it folded because of what I have seen during spectrometer testing. BUT the damn thing works so good, it really doesnt matter. the donut is pretty small overall. If anyone gets a glitch or lockout, turn to the side quickly or hold it up though. That's about all you can do. I had a hit with the 6100, but I am not convinced it wasn't the battery. A little theory,... most radio signals are vertical polarization, so we leave the antenna to the side, sideways to minimize chances of any 2.4 hits. just our opinion though...

Dick, Which one in that picture is you praying? They both look like you. Is that what you do each time before one of your many flying experiements. We are all just big kids!! I used to pray like that before chasing the raptor. "dear God, dont let me screw the pooch"

Hey guys, I hope all you know that Dick's been building and flying all kinds of this stuff since I can remember, so listen to him. I certainly do and havent gone wrong yet.

I learned something listening to Gene Payson. The DX modules reduce the battery usage rate on the JR radios in half.

I talked to Mike McConville at Toledo, and he just got his new 35% extra going. The guy could have any radio he wants, whats going in? JR DX radio. I talked to him about his trip to mexico finally, and he said he was the ONLY one with no radio problems.

Any questions?

g

gooseF22

Hey guys, I looked back on the battery discussion. Here is my 5cents worth.

During a high demand flight, everything builds heat, especially the new digital servos. they can get hot if you bang em around. So do batteries. Higher impedence batters will heat under load more. Its physics.

I would not under any circumstances use a single battery on a GS airplane. Not that it doesn't work, but it makes a single point failure much less likely. With that, you get twice the current capability into the receiver as well. Its not about voltage, its about current. Let me say this again, its about Current. When the demand on the batteries is high, they can only give so much current based on internal resistance. The result is that as more current is demanded, voltage drops. we all know that....BUT as they heat, the internal resistance goes up more on both the servo and batteries causing the only remaining variable to drop...voltage. We know ar is a little more sensitive to brown out, so you have to pay attention to your battery and switch/regulator capability. The 2700 sanyo that is out there now has a higher impedence than the 2500 or 2100. I will not use it. The A123 has very small impedence, so akin it to a firehose in capability versus the 2700 which was designed to power transmitters at 500 mah or less. I got that from Dave Thacker. He refuses to but the 2700 in my plane and explained it to me. The same problem with regulators, they heat too, and have limited current capability so the voltage drops, they heat more and it drops more.

I dont know what caused the rudder problem that fella had, but my best guess would be since the rudder was moving that a pot failed somewhere and gave feedback, or one of the got really hot and began issues there too. Gene Payson did some temp testing after flights and saw over 100 degrees on some of the new JR servos. As dick said we wentthrough this when LiOns came out, and regulators popped up. Now were goingi through another learning curve. Big servos make for big power requirements. I personally like to have a margin of 150% capacity minimum. I mention again the A123's because I have never seen a battery system so powerful and able to be abused and maintain voltage. And no regulators. I personally never went to a LiOn battery until now, I have been on nickels. One last point. Nickel batteries wont achieve full capability until they have been charged 5 tiimes or so as a general rule. On a new app, I charge em on the smallest charger I have or a 100mah setting for a couple of days. install em, run em down 1/2 way a couple of times before flying em. then before first flight trickle em again.

Just my technique based on Dave Thacker's teachings. (Radical RC)

I thought Id try to put some of this to bed.

g

Ed

Yeah goose, I too fold mine 90* to the left in the case, and just leave it folded that way when it comes out of the case, for horizontal polarization. Just like the little Rx antennas are positioned in the aircraft, horizontally. I get 100+ paces on the ground, button depressed, and nearly out of sight range with a 30% scale aircraft in the air. FWIW

> Jim

rino

My Feedback: (121)

Thanks guys, the last two posts were really helpful summaries.

Even on my smaller birds I have gone to low impedance nimh packs with 22 guage leads and the ECS 4 pole switch with 22 g wire. My only limiting factor now is the actual battery to switch plug which I have been thinking over. I know at 3 amps continuous servo plugs/connectors get warm but I don't know what the actual limit of the plug is. Anyways, the only way around that would be 2 switches which I'm not sure I want to do on such a small plane.

Does anyone know what the burst amp rate for a servo plug is? I am also investigating the A123 cells now as Dick has piqued my inteterst.

Additionally, one thing that's obvious is that the number of reported AR6100 crashes has pretty much gone to zero since the firmware upgrade. However, there are still crashes popping up with the 7000 that seem unexplainable. I agree that most seem like battery problems but not all do. IT's also interesting to me that until about March or so there were very few 7000 crashes reported at all. And, according to HH they had sold more than 10K units by Christmas. Anyway, it makes me wonder if there is some other contributing factor to some of the so called unexplainable crashes.

I personally have not had one glitch with the 7000 and am very happy with it.

Pile-O-Wood

Here's my view on batteries. From reading these posts, and results from customers bringing batteries to the store to be checked out I think some of the problems is improper charging. Example: I had one 4.8v 1700ma nimh battery that he just charged with a peak detection charger. I cycled the battery on an Alpha 4 and it only checked at 700ma. I then charged it using the n function and cycled it again and it chacked 1200 ma, one more round and it checked 1885 ma. I think some of the problems are caused by batteries that people think are fully charged when they are not. The batteries will check ok with an ESV. I think this is the reason some people get one or two flights and then have an unexplaned contact with mother earth on the next flight. Just my .02 cents..

jfetter

Anyone else beleive Futaba is just trying to make sure folks have to buy Futaba equipment by making their new FASST system a frequency hopping system rather than what Spektrum and JR have done with the non-hopping standard? I was kind of bummed out the other day when a friend from a local RC shop overhead me say I was getting a new 9303 2.4 Mhz and said "great, I'll let you be the guinea pig". When I asked him why, he said they see better performance from the Futaba FASST system (not operational, just the time to re-aquire signal if turned off) and he would go that route instead.

I have to say this crap from Futaba stinks, their new ad says they have been aware of and experimenting with DSS for some 15 years. Hey, great, thanks for bringing it to the market place! No, they sat on it and waited for someone else to reinvent the hobby then jumped on the bandwagon but with a non-compatible system to boot. I really don't have a brand preference except that what I start with is usually what I stick with unless it doesn't work (call it not wanting to temp fate) but this crap of making systems incompatible really doesn't help the hobby.

Now Futaba says frequency hopping (every 2ms is you can beleive that!) makes the system less prone to interference, I say I doubt any one technology can prove it either way given the wide range of different conditions in different locations, seems to me they just made it proprietary to force folks to use their equipment. Any one else have an opinion on this, I am getting tired of companies dividing the market rather than simply making a good product...

Jack

jfetter

I have 2 6100's still in plastic from before X-max, any way to tell if they need a firward upgrade?

Thx,

Jack

rino

My Feedback: (121)

Ok, totally off topic. Does anyone know who makes a wood prop (16x6) that rivals the efficiency of an APC?