Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

I agree that Jim has hit the nail on the head here. You'd be surprised at how many people make the decision after just holding the radios. The difficulty might be in finding a shop that has them both, at least for awhile.

I flew Futaba to begin with and then went to JR. The 9C isn't really that hard to learn but since they're no longer available that's not a consideration. Since the new 10C is just out, I don't have any experience with it. The 9Z was a great radio, but programming it was also a great project. It was a very capable radio with lots of features, but it was definitely not user friendly.

The X9303 is also a nice radio and I liked it better than my 9C as certain of the common functions were easier to setup and adjust. More intuitive if you will? But it was not capable of some things I'd grown used to with my 9Z which is understandable when you consider that the 9Z cost almost twice what an X9303 does.

Now that my 12X is here, I'm HOME.......

tora

My Feedback: (1)

They will put new features in later 12x"s? Like what kind of features?

Banker

My Feedback: (10)

On a programable mix, what does the "And" do and where in the manual does t address this? Thanks

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Is it ok to use a 11.1 lipo battery in the 12x?

I have done a fast read through this thread but failed to find the answer to whether or not 11.1 lithium batteries can be used in the 12x. I thought I read elsewhere they are not compatible but have yet to confirm that. I just received my new 12x and would love to transfer my lipo from my 10x to the 12x and dispense with all the charging BS of the stock batt.


Thanks in advance.

Troy Newman

JR doesn't approve using lipo batts in either the 10X or 12X.

As a matter of fact they recommend against it on all JR and Spektrum Radios.

There are guys doing it and sounds like you are one of them on the 10X. JR's opinion is you are doing it at your own risk.

2200mah is 2200mah...Its the same capacity battery a lipo will not last longer in the on air time. The Nimh packs will discharge a little faster when not in use...But if you charge the packs up with a supplied charger with the 12X is will alst weeks and weeks in storage without use and still have 70-80% capacity in the battery.

Troy Newman
Team JR

Troy Newman

banker,

the "AND" feature means that you that to have the mix come on or change values you have to have all the switches you select in the given position.

Example is gear switch in POS1 "AND" mix switch in Pos1, "AND" a stick position switch on the throttle stick in POS1

When all three of these switches are in POS1 then the mix will turn ON or go to POS1 or whatever you have it doing.

If you leave the "AND" in the Off then any of those three switches by themselves will activate the mix, or POS1 or what ever you have going on in that mix, condition or change.

This is a powerful tool for sure.

Hope this helps

Troy Newman
Team JR

Red B.

The 12X appears to be a wonderful transmitter, but when it becomes available here in Europe the hardest competition for the JR 12X (35 and 40 MHz versions) will IMHO not be Futaba, but JR themselves!

Why? Graupner in collaboration with JR produces a 9303 "on steroids" that is called MX-24s. It can easily be mistaken for a 9303, but its Graupner developed software is VERY different from the 9303. From what I have read in the the 12X manual the MX-24s offers about the same functionality including 12ch APCM, logical switches, servo matching, switch assignability etcetera. You can check out the manual here: [link=http://www.graupner.de/fileadmin/downloadcenter/anleitungen/20080528104715_4730.77_mx-24s_manual_gb.pdf]MX-24s[/link].
IMHO the MX-24s software is more intuitive and easier to get to grips with.

The reason that the MX-24s will give the 12X stiff competition is in the pricing. If it is assumed that the relative price differences between JR transmitters is the same in Europe as in the US, the 12X will be almost 70% more expensive than the MX-24s.

cjshaker

First off, I'm a Futaba 12FG owner and flyer.

I was reading the 12X manual to see if it sucks as bad as the Futaba manual. It does not.

I'm impressed with how much more readable the JR 12X manual is than the Futaba 12FG
manual.

The 12X radio is no where near as programmable as the 12FG is, so the radio should be
easier to document. I was impressed that JR actually made the attempt to make the manual
clear and easy to read.

In contrast, the manual for my 12FG appears written by Futaba engineers for Futaba
engineers to read. It does not explain how to set up a program mix worth beans.

After reading about mixing in the JR 12X manual, I thought I could program a mix on it. Still
haven't figured out how to do it on my 12FG.

Chris Shaker

superdave01

Futaba Manuals do realy suck but im not reallyimpressed with JR either...... there just at least usable

Futaba problems, dont read in the Futaba section here because anything that states a PROBLEM will be deleted. Might be ok to ask a quiestion like how to program a switch etc.

Ill go post one saying the Futaba manual is really hard to understand...... bet it disapears!

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Troy,

Thanks for the info but I am still wondering if there is something about the 12x that makes it more susceptible to being damaged than the 10x. I know many owners of the 10X that use lipos and I do not know of any failures. Do you know of any such failures of either the 12X or 10X from lipo use?

BTW Guys I just found out our LHS is making a special deal on the 12X. If you buy the 12X and 12 channel receiver (at map 1499.99) he will sell you AR 9100s or the 12 channel receivers for 159.99 each. Also it looks like Spectrum has extended the receiver giveaway until the end of the month for the 12X. Contact Gene at Wings and Wheels http://www.wingsandwheelshobbies.com/ for the great deal.

Troy Newman

JR doesn't approve of using Lipos in any of their radios. The voltage from a fully charged pack is too high for the system nd it can be damaged.

As stated I use the supplied 2200mah nimh pack in my 12X and have a 2500mah JR pack I stuck in a 10X battery case.

I don't argue with the folks that design the radios. They know more about them than I do. So I follow their guidelines. To my thinking is dumb to risk damaging an expensive TX or worse risking a model for a battery pack that has the same capacity as the one supplied and designed for the TX.

Yes the Lipo will not last any longer in run time than the Nimh. They are the same size battery.

The only advantage the Lipo has is self discharge when not in use. The Nimh can self discharge at a faster rate.

If you slow charge the nimh packs all the time are most of the time the self discharge rate is pretty low. If you use peak detect chargers then you might only get 70% charge in the first place and then it will discharge very quickly to an unsafe level. I'll restate what I posted in another forum about this.

I last charged my 12X on Thursday July 24th the night before the Finals at the Nationals. I flew 4 flights in the contest on the 25 of July. I have spent about 40mins to an hour messing with some programming to help guys figure out a programming question since and the system has been off for 18 days. Thats nearly 3 weeks after it was fully charged at the Hotel overnight. Then it was flown 4 times about 10mins each flight.

I just turned it on 12am AZ time on Tuesday the 12th of August and its reading 10.1V From the looks of the bar graph its about 50-60% I could probably get another 2-3 flights on it before it needs a charge. Low volt alarm goes off at 9V. I have flown the system to about 9.2V before. Not often but I did it once. I recommend anything below 9.6 to 9.5 gets a re-charge


So what is the problem with the stock battery pack? Or is that you think a 2100mah lipo will last more flights than a 2200mah nimh, it can't Capacity is capacity.

If the tank hold 5 gallons of water, you are not going to switch it out to Jack Daniels and make it a 6 gallon tank.

Its still only going to give a 5 gallon capacity. Same with batteries. It doesn't matter Lead Acid, Nicd, Nimh, Lipo, Alkaline, Salt water with a couple copper plates in it. The "battery" has a rated capacity and that is all its good for.

Lipos are good for high current draw situations like electric motors and such. You TX draws the same low power all the time...moving the stick doesn't make the power consumption go up or down. Its not like the servos that actually doing work. The TX does none.


Troy Newman
Team JR

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Troy

Thanks for the battery lesson but unfortunately you didn't answer my question (is there something about the 12x that makes it more susceptible to being damaged than the 10x by the use of lipo batts). I know JR doesn't recommend lipos but manufactures typically do not recommend anything but their products...nothing new.

Anyway you say; "The only advantage the Lipo has is self discharge when not in use. The Nimh can self discharge at a faster rate"… but that is not the only advantage. Lipos can be charged in just 1 hour. Most of my radios have lipos in them...which include the 10x and Futaba 9Z w2 and I have let them set idle for months and routinely use then for a days flying when the opportunity arises but if they are low I can recharge in just 1 hour. Very desirable for me.


I really wasn't looking for factory admonishments or battery lessons but some real life first hand experiences.

I often make modifications that manufactures do not recommend... actually very few things that I have are not hopped up one way or another.

I would really like to know; is there anything in particular that makes 12x more susceptible to being damaged than the 10x by the use of lipo batts?

Has anybody had damage done to their 10x or 12x by lipo use?

tadawson

So can a good fast charge NiCd . . . big deal . . .

- Tim

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Sheesh....

Why don't you just drop $1500 for a 12X and give it a go????

Mine works fine with the supplied battery....

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

The battery in mine lasts for a full days of flying 6-10 flights and then lasts on my cycler for a few more hours. I fail to see a reason to change the battery to anything else. I don't fly Lipo's in any of my airplanes either, I just don't see the need to. The draw backs of Lipo's outweigh the charge time advantage. Using Lipo's in an airplane requires a regulator and that is just another point to fail. JMHO

Tim

Hammbone

My Feedback: (309)

I too was going to put a LiIon in my 12X, but after trying the stock battery, it's not bad. I didn't think it would hold a charge very long, but it seems to hold a charge for several days.
My concern wasn't flying time, but the self discharge rate.
I'm going to stick with the stock battery for now. I just hope it will remain this way. I thought NiMh wouldn't hold a charge, but this one does, so far.

Jim

tadawson

"NiMH historically had a somewhat higher self-discharge rate (equivalent to internal leakage) than NiCd in the past. However, this is no longer the case. The self-discharge is 5-10% on the first day, and stabilizes around 0.5-1% per day at room temperature."

(Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_metal_hydride)

Looks like your assumptions are very dated . . . I have stuff that only loses 25% or so in a month, which is consistent with the above info.

- Tim

seattle_helo

My Feedback: (1)

I've been very impressed with the battery that came with the 12X. I typically charge when it gets down to 9.5v. But from a full charge to when it does finally reach 9.5v takes quite a bit of on time. I fly my electric helis as much as I can during the week, sometimes every morning doing six ten minute flights and I can go a whole week of that before charging. It's been nice.

JR has a tech bulliten on its web site (as well as the Spektrum site) and the primary reason they don't advocate LiPo use is that the higher voltage stresses some of the electronics and can lead to a eventual failure. Here is one of the bulletins:

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Ok, you guys convinced me to use the stock battery in my 12x. Thanks

Troy Newman

littlecrankshaf,

Sorry I must have gotten carried away with my response to you regarding the reasons why I don't use lipos in any of my TX's. I felt a little information would convince you, why you should not use them either. I felt I should qualify my answer and give some details. I didn't realize you were not interested in the details. Sometimes on RCU its tough for me to tell if the guys just wants to hear yes or no. I often will give more information than needed in order to answer the question or explain a reason for my decisions.

I have heard that I type to much....to that end:
You had a simple question and deserves a simple answer.

sorry about that long post previously...

Q: Is there something about the 12x that makes it more susceptible to being damaged by a lipo?

A: Yes there is, as a result lipos are not recommended JR.

I hope this information helps you make your decision.

Troy Newman
Team JR

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Troy

Sorry about getting so defensive but your initial reply came across as a very condescending admonishment to an ignorant first grader.

Just for clarity sake…are you saying there is something that makes a 12x more susceptible to damage than the 10x by li-poly use?

If so, can you elaborate?

In case you missed it, I have now decided to do as recommended. The guys here in this forum presented enough info to sway me and I am now considering putting a stock battery back in my 10X as well, if I keep it. Some of that will depend on info you may have about the differences between the 12x and 10x…
.

Thanks again.

KeithB

My Feedback: (1)

littlecrankshaf,

I used my 10X with a lipo battery for about two years. During that time I purchased a synthesized transmitter module that worked for a while, then suddenly it went south (on the ground luckily). Later I read the warnings that said "DON'T USE LIPO BATTERIES WITH JR TX's". In hind sight I realize that it's possible that the high voltage of the lipo battery could have caused the module failure (after all they say don’t use them). I was really lucky I didn't lose my plane!

I now have a JR issue NICAD in the transmitter and a new synthesized module that's working fine.

Keith B

airwayman

My Feedback: (2)

Troy, no apology needed. You do a great service to those of us who want answers to our many questions. Faced with a choice and differing opinions I find one of the best ways to approach an issue is to ask yourself "What's the worst that can happen?" In this case the worst that can happen is the excess voltage of the lithium battery pack eventually causes the Tx to fail and you lose the plane. I doubt seriously that JR did any testing to see if the 12X would withstand the extra voltage of the lithium batteries. So, if you use them, you're in uncharted waters. Columbus had balls of steel and he found the world to be round. I don't have balls of steel or the money to replace a $5,000+ R/C plane if my 12X fails from excess voltage. So, what's to be gained by switching to lithium batteries? This isn't a capacity issue, it's not a burst output issue and it's not a weight consideration, it boils down to how often and how long it takes to charge the Tx vs. the possible risk of losing a plane. I for one will pass on the risk, use the supplied battery and charge the night before. Airwayman

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Not in my book....

I'm one of the many who really appreciate your efforts not only in describing/explaining the hardware, but your willingness to try various configurations and setups for other users who are experiencing difficulties achieving the desired end result.

I've enjoyed reading your posts on here and FG.

Thanks for your efforts and please feel free to continue to "type too much".

CoronaL

Hi guys!

Sorry I found this thread after searching on Google for battery upgrades for a 12x, so I haven't read all the pages just the one Google linked to. I get the jist of it though.

Problem I'm having is that my 12x I fully charged it for 3 cycles per the instructions. Left on for 24+ hours each of the first 3 charges on the stock JR charger, then put it on my accucycle discharger. First cycle I got 1400mah out of pack, 2nd I got 1600mah out, 3rd I got about 1780mah out. After that I'm charging on my Hyperion duo charger with a rate of 1.5a main charge and a trickle of 125mah.

After a charge voltage on the TX will read 10.1-10.2v for about a few seconds then drop to about 9.8v for a few mins and within 3-4 flights I'm down near 9.6v which makes me nervous.

For my X9303 I used a lipo pack and had no problems with it. I also had made a 2000mah pack out of Eneloop NiMh cells as they are lower discharge rate cells and after a full charge on them the X9303 would read >11v for a few seconds prior to dropping to 10.8v and staying in the mid to low 10's for a day or two of flying 8-12 flights each(5-10 mins each flight).

I like the 12x radio, but am VERY disappointed in the battery to this point. Having spend $1800 on the TX/Rx combo and 2 extra Rx's I would think it should beat the battery times of my X9303 which I could fly for 2 days on the stock 1500mah NiMh pack as well. I follow the "break in" rules for the NiMh battery as I didn't want to use an "aftermarket" battery for this Tx as I didn't want JR to use any excuses IF there were to be an issue with the radio. I've never had a problem with JR radios, hence the big investment in this one, but Murphy and his damm law are bound to rear their head at some point and this is too $ of a Tx to play games with the warranty.

If the JR rep would please comment on me replacing the cells inside the case with eneloop cells if that would void the warranty I would appreciate it. What's another $30-40 to me now at this point for some piece of mind. I think one of the cells or more may be weak in my pack and I really can't afford the down time at the end of this flying season to send it in. Plus tbh I really haven't had overwhelming success with warranty issues in the past with "other" manufacturers as it seems to be more of an exercise of "let's see how we can get out of this claim" versus fixing an issue.

thx
John