Flyfalcons

Sirrom, I think you missed Silent's sarcasm in his post.

SManMTB

I have some issues with Futaba FAAST too. It's not the 6014 receiver but the receivers that come with the Futaba 3PK and 3PM. I have both and they both lose bind when it's hot. After a few minutes cooling off they bind just fine again.
I run 1/8 scale buggies and used to use a JR XS3 75MHz system with synthezised receivers and never had any issues up until I switched to Futaba FAAST. The track is the same and the summers gets just as hot and muggy as before. I use the same type servos and battery packs like last year.

Logic tells me it's a temperature issue as this never happened when running the JR equipment.
Neobuggy reported drivers having this issue at the Euros. Drilling holes in the body and radio box solved the problem.

RCU Futaba Direct Support Forum says this is merely a rumour but after a few PM the answer was 'Futaba is awarew of the problem but we (Great Planes) can't do anything.



Well, IMO it would be pretty easy for Futaba Support in the US (Great Planes) to do some tests if they actually have a real electronics service department and not only an office with desks where failed part are being shipped to Japan for service.

Flyfalcons

SMan, a black chassis can get awfully hot in the summer sun. Have you tried rectifying the problem by perhaps mounting the receiver on something white?

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

You might try removing the sides from the receiver box and mounting the receiver on it's side with tie wraps so that it gets plenty of air flow. Futaba says that these receivers are not sensitive to vibration like the old ones were.

Read these guide lines.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7606959/tm.htm

SoCalSal

My Feedback: (16)

WHAT?????????? is this guy for real???? If so I did not know that Futaba products were supposed to work with all the other brands products. The concept is cool but you need a reality check.

And some basic electronics understanding will inform you that most electronics have a heat threshold that will cause them to quit or fail at some point. Try this...disable the fans in your computer and let it get good and warm then see what happens.

SManMTB

Well, the cars are the way they are and it's nothing that can be changed really. My point here was that there were no issues with the JR 75MHz system, but issues with the Futaba under the same conditions.

SManMTB

Yes, I know more cooling will solve the problem.
My point here was that there were no issues with the JR 75MHz system, but issues with the Futaba under the same conditions and it seems like Futaba is treating this as an unconfirmed rumour and pure speculations.
To me it's pretty damn obvious there is a heat related problem and nowhere does it state the specified operating temperature of the electronics. I'm an EE myself and have to design equipment to work at certain conditions.

That's it. Futaba is a huge company and as such should take 'complaints' and reported problems seriously otherwise they WILL lose reputation and customers. Having Great Planes saying "we can't do anything because we are not connected to Futaba Japan" is a weak sauce reaction iMO.

Silent-AV8R

Ya' Think???

Silent-AV8R

Excellent. You now own Great Planes. What are you going to do?

SManMTB

OK fine...
As the owner I would set up a test at the service department and report the findings to Futaba Corp in Japan. I am after all, as an owner of the distributor and the official service department for Futaba in the US, pretty interested in keeping up sales and do my best to work with them and promote the products.

Now..... you now own Futaba Corp in Japan. How do you reply when the distributor of your product on one of the largest markets in the world investigates and reports serious issues (with lab results) about a product?

SManMTB

Well the problem here is that Futaba never stated the safe temperature range. At least this is true for the FASST system used for the 3PK and 3PM.
If they did PLEASE point me to it because I really like to see it.


edit: spelled FASST wrong

dragoonpvw

My Feedback: (7)

Page 10 3pk manual

Receiver Vibration and Waterproofing
The receiver contains precision electronic parts. Be sure to avoid vibration, shock, and temperature extremes.

By the way, if you don't know what temperature extremes are then you would have to call and find out. That of course is a user responsibility.
good luck
Paul

SManMTB

Thank you but, there is no definition of 'temperature extremes' and it's certainly NOT the users responsibility to find out what Futaba specifies as a safe temperature range.
Have you EVER seen any consumer electronics that doesn't come with this info clearly printed in the manual!? (Except RC related products).

If these 'issues' were to happen in any car of a certain brand there would be a major recall and possibly class action lawsuits LOL.
Do you think Ford/GM/Toyota or whoever would get away this easy if their engine ECU over heated and failed and there were no written specs about safe operating temperatures? Not in a million years.

Seriously, why is there such a reluctant attitude from Futaba with this, and why are the fanboys coming in and defending. I mean there is an issue but it would have been a non-issue if it was clearly stated that we are not supposed to run the Rx at more than xxx F.
Besides this the early batch of FASST receivers (for cars) didn't have this issue.

SManMTB

Based on this the FASST receivers are just not suited for off road RC car use. Vibration and shock..... that's just impossible to avoid. It's a cop-out to avoid complaining customers. Ohhhh and ...... The JR manual says the same thing. I wonder why those Rx worked (and still works fine) after 3 years of vibration, shock and temperature extremes. Hmmmmmmm.

sirrom

My Feedback: (4)

No I got his sarcasm and I agree with him that too many people try and blame the manufacturers when they do something stupid.

Patrick

Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

Oh let’s stop with the recall and class action little girl whiny crap. And comparing apples (FASST) and oranges (JR 75mhz) is just as silly. They are different technology and subject to a different environmental operating range. Futaba’s 3/4PK FASST manual and web site spell out a number of cautions about controllers, batteries and other heat generating devices used in cars. Maybe some of ‘last years components used with JR 75mhz’ create issues with newer technology. Ever think of that?

Futaba has stated in the new 10C FASST manual the operating range is -10c to +50c. Although this temperature range is about standard for RC electronics it has created more anguish because some pants pee’ers feel it isn’t good enough. Very few RC manufacturers publish temperature specs and some that do have a narrower temp range than Futaba’s FASST. So tough, get over it and move on.

And ranting here is to a limited audience so don’t expect volumes of support. Our local flying club has over 65 active members and I asked at a recent full house meeting how many read the goings on at RCU. Exactly 6 did, the rest never heard of RCU. Regardless of RCU’s advertising generating hype, these forums reach less than 10% of active RC’ers.

The rest are out having fun and not worrying about this crap. By the way, the local car guys using FASST aren’t having any issues and it is damned hot in central California. So maybe you have a bum receiver…ever think of that?

summerwind

[sm=drowning.gif][sm=drowning.gif][sm=drowning.gif][sm=drowning.gif]
this is getting better and better

allr

My Feedback: (49)

pilotpete2

It is however one wants to look at it. Here are a few lines from Futuba's website: 1. To keep the receiver cooler use small foam blocks (like standoffs) so that there is an air channel around the receiver. 2. Shade your model from sunlight when not flying.
Clear canopies expose the radio compartment to direct sunlight which results in additional heat in the model interior. 3. Cover the canopy with a white towel; or better yet, park your airplanes in the shade. This will help keep the electronic components cool. 4. It is important to note that lighter covering colors will absorb less heat whereas darker colors will absorb more heat. 5. 2.4GHz FASST receivers — you should instead make sure that you’re mounting the unit in the coolest part of the radio compartment.

Now in itself this is just good practice. But take in accounts all of the postings then one must consider this concern with heat.

Each individual will have to make the decision as to exactly what all of this means.

Flyfalcons

So the answer is no, you aren't going to try to rectify your setup. I'm afraid we can't help you.

SManMTB

(1): Just a comparison big boy. Are you calling everyone voicing an opinion or observation whiny girls? Sounds like you're a good ole' boy going with the herd. Seriously, don't get personal.... however you already crossed the line so here we go.

(2a): Not really apples to oranges. It's electronics. The performance of the final product depends on the the specs of the parts used, not the technology.
(2b): You just proved you don't have much of a clue about electronics.

(3): GREAT!! First time I have ever seen that. Now, how about putting that in the manual on ALL radios/modules/receivers using FASST!? Not that hard is it? -10c to +50c is a very standard temp range and covers what comercial grade components are rated for.
If this was posted in the manual this 'issue' would be a'non-issue'. Very simple.

(4): Nice attitude dude. They should post it. How do you know they are narrower if they don't disclose it? What side are you on, the consumer or the manufacturer or maybe you're afraid of going against the grain and make waves.

(5) What does that have to do with anything, really. Seems like RCU is important enough for you to get your panties in a bunch. It also seemed important enough for you to bring it up on a meeting. How many of the worlds RC'ers cares what your click of 65 flyers discuss or talk about?
Btw, if nobody reads this why are you so eager to kill the discussion with the old geezer 'touch get over it attitude'?

(6) Two out of two bum receivers. Yup that's a freak occurance.



If the subject is so difficult for you to handle and on top of that less than 10% of RC'ers and only 6 out of your club reads RCU, well It's time for you to move on.

SManMTB

Look, how do you expect me to find a white radio box for a car. Sounds like you haven't seen how they are built. All plastic is black. Almost none of the car chassis in 1/8 buggy are black. There really isn't much you can change besides cutting holes in the radio box and letting in a serious amount of dust.
You still missed the message in my post. It's pretty clear actually, and please stop the condesending 'We can't help you' argument.

Same car, same conditions, same servos, same batteries, same track - Old school 75MHz and no problems. Futaba FASST over heating.
Now after the real safe temp range was posted by the dude above (-10c to +50c) it makes perfect sense that it failed. Wouldn't it have been great to be able to read that in the manual for the 3PKS with FASST system!? Or maybe it's just another "tough luck son, get over it" kind of thing. I can't believe that attitude.

You as a flyer who probably spends thousands of dollars on your planes and equipment actually have a RIGHT to know under what conditions your radio equipment will work. It should not be a surprise. Besides that your stuff can fall from the sky and cause damage. Cars just gets out of control and nothing serious happens but I STILL think I have the RIGHT to know under what conditions the equipment should work. It sucks to spend +$400 on radio equipment with unknown specs. If I had known I should have got something else.
Seriously, are all of you arguing here blind or afraid!?

SManMTB

Happy to make you happy. It's hard to argue or discuss with people who can't read between the lines.

Flyfalcons

Really, how difficult would it be to place a white sticker on your radio box where the receiver goes? Anything to prevent the receiver from being in a heat-absorbing situation will help.

SManMTB

With all the dirt and grime it just won't stick, seriously. It's a good idea anyway but it just doesn't work.

xcellheli

My Feedback: (1)

Take the case off the receiver and wrap it in a coffee filter. It is white, will let air pass and would filter the dirt. It is also easy and cheap to change.