CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
#1526
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
The good side of all of this is that now the prospect of doing a lozenge paint job on some future model almost seems like a walk in the park! Really, I would never have imagined that doing the Hazet radiators could be such a formidable scale challenge. I mean, to make up some "sport scale" radiators wouldn't be so hard, but really doing an FAI-quality job (and that's as good a standard as any) is really a whole other level.
#1527
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
OK. Time for some more perspective on "what's small" and "what's hard."
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/...p?t198071.html
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/...p?t198071.html
#1529
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
ORIGINAL: Mein Duff
...reminds me of when I was making all the cooling baldes for my SE5 front grill...cutting 50 blades by hand, bending to right angles, pressing indentions for steel pivot rods, drilling end flanges, making side rail guides for the baldes, making holding frame for the whole assembly...
...reminds me of when I was making all the cooling baldes for my SE5 front grill...cutting 50 blades by hand, bending to right angles, pressing indentions for steel pivot rods, drilling end flanges, making side rail guides for the baldes, making holding frame for the whole assembly...
#1531
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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Nice work Don. If my math is correct it's double what you have plus 8 and you've got it. You're close it would be a shame to change tacks now.
Ron
Ron
#1532
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
I know your circumstances are different in Japan and you aren't interested in competitions...or are there even any in Japan?...shooting for FAI standards is a lofty and worthy goal, it puts many of us on the same page...and we have to set the bar at some professional level. (although we all aplaud and support even the beginners efforts on this forum)....
I was impressed by all the suggestions and comments on how to make your radiators from other members recently...lots of very ingenious ways to fabricate pieces, all trying to help you get the best posible scale effect...but in the end of course, it's your judgement call. If your not competing in FAI the bar can come down.
As to casting these flange pieces...what physical size are we talking about? looks like about 8 x 4 x .5 mm maybe?....Seth Hunter's thread has some really good info. on casting materials we could all benefit from...casting could be still an "iffy process", and tedious, at this size I would imagine.
I was impressed by all the suggestions and comments on how to make your radiators from other members recently...lots of very ingenious ways to fabricate pieces, all trying to help you get the best posible scale effect...but in the end of course, it's your judgement call. If your not competing in FAI the bar can come down.
As to casting these flange pieces...what physical size are we talking about? looks like about 8 x 4 x .5 mm maybe?....Seth Hunter's thread has some really good info. on casting materials we could all benefit from...casting could be still an "iffy process", and tedious, at this size I would imagine.
#1533
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Gee I dunno Don...post #1468 sure looks very promising to me...but getting the right tool width could be a problem.
As to my 15 yrs of "off and on building"....like you, I think I almost enjoy the building more than the flying these days...at least I don't have nightmares to deal with...being budhist also helps a lot...whenever I get there...hopefull while I can still see and fly[sm=confused_smile.gif]
As to my 15 yrs of "off and on building"....like you, I think I almost enjoy the building more than the flying these days...at least I don't have nightmares to deal with...being budhist also helps a lot...whenever I get there...hopefull while I can still see and fly[sm=confused_smile.gif]
#1534
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
ORIGINAL: Mein Duff
I know your circumstances are different in Japan and you aren't interested in competitions...or are there even any in Japan?
I know your circumstances are different in Japan and you aren't interested in competitions...or are there even any in Japan?
...shooting for FAI standards is a lofty and worthy goal...
If your not competing in FAI the bar can come down.
#1535
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
ORIGINAL: Mein Duff
...being budhist also helps a lot...whenever I get there...hopefull while I can still see and fly[sm=confused_smile.gif]
...being budhist also helps a lot...whenever I get there...hopefull while I can still see and fly[sm=confused_smile.gif]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrKxM_gRloY
#1537
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
ORIGINAL: Mein Duff
Hey Don....just to give you an idea why the SE5 front end is such a time consuming beast done to scale...[:@]
Hey Don....just to give you an idea why the SE5 front end is such a time consuming beast done to scale...[:@]
#1538
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
A Fokker DVII seems like a cake walk in comparison...its amazing how the Germans (or Fokker to be more precise) was able to simplifly construction while the Brits seemed to make it more complex !?! ever try to work on a Jaguar ?!??!
#1539
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
I'm working on drilling the holes on a second sheet of flanges. This time I skipped the hole punch step and just drilled the small side holes immediately. The paper, for the most part, hold the bit in location. Still I'm getting quite a lot of wastage where the holes are not quite right. I mess about about 1 out of 4 times. So I'll drill a whole bunch of them (100+) and just see which ones come out the best. I only need about 50 more.
Cutting and filing them to shape isn't actually very hard. Just tedious. It takes me about 30 sec. a piece once I have them drilled and cut.
Cutting and filing them to shape isn't actually very hard. Just tedious. It takes me about 30 sec. a piece once I have them drilled and cut.
#1540
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Out of 112 copies on the new template, I got 52 "keepers" where the holes are lined up correctly. I don't know if I was sloppier this time or whether I was just less discerning on the last batch. It's surprisingly hard to get that central hole both equidistant between the two small holes on the side and lined up vertically.
The keepers can now be cut out and shaped. This will give me 92, so I may even get to discard a couple of these keepers.
The keepers can now be cut out and shaped. This will give me 92, so I may even get to discard a couple of these keepers.
#1541
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
And there is 92 flanges! I credit SouthPark's online episode player for keeping me sane throughout. So it took me three days (or about 6 hours of concentrated effort) to produce these flanges. That's about two weeks (at least) less that I would have taken to do it any other way that involved ordering materials.
#1542
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RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Looks good, Don. For the radiator panels you could check if there's a rectangular Evergreen profile that fits. You could glue them together staggered and add the raised chanels with white glue or something. Evergreen has plastic materials in all sorts and sized, plus it would be hollow from the inside, which would give you that head on look you are looking for.
#1543
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Chris, I already looked. The smallest square tube is 3mm wide. Remember that at 1/6 scale we're taking about a "tube" that's no wider than about 1mm. And the "corregated metal siding" also isn't right even though the spacing it about right. That's because it isn't "old-style" wavy corrugation but rather a modern "flat indentation" type. Those "channels" would at this scale would be only a few fractions of a millimeter wide (and I'd have to fit in roughly 10 on a 16.5mm wide panel).
Again, I find it interesting that the original Flight article drawings don't show these channels despite the fact that they are very detailed drawings. I get the impression that they weren't very visible except from certain angles in certain light.
But I can see that my fellow modelers are not at all satisfied with the corrugated paper method. Neither am I, but but I've thought about and/or tried just about every other idea. I have a couple more ideas I'll try, but I'm not hopeful that something better is possible at this scale.
Again, I find it interesting that the original Flight article drawings don't show these channels despite the fact that they are very detailed drawings. I get the impression that they weren't very visible except from certain angles in certain light.
But I can see that my fellow modelers are not at all satisfied with the corrugated paper method. Neither am I, but but I've thought about and/or tried just about every other idea. I have a couple more ideas I'll try, but I'm not hopeful that something better is possible at this scale.
#1544
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
The more I learn about the H-Z radiators, the better I am able to make observations about what I see in the old photos. So here are some further observations about the radiators seen on Albatros C110 that I'm (sort of) modeling.
1. Here appear to be 10 radiator panels per side, but the forward two are "covered." This fits with the observation in the article that higher horsepower engines needed up to 20 panels.
2. There appear to be two additional vertical pipes 9-8-7 (see blue arrows).
3. There is also an additional "spacer" fitting on the top between 9 and 10 with suggests that there's an "plumbing outlet (inlet) at the bottom at this point.
4. The panels are set up in sets of 2-3-1-1-1 (not sure about the "bagged" ones) going from the rear forward.
1. Here appear to be 10 radiator panels per side, but the forward two are "covered." This fits with the observation in the article that higher horsepower engines needed up to 20 panels.
2. There appear to be two additional vertical pipes 9-8-7 (see blue arrows).
3. There is also an additional "spacer" fitting on the top between 9 and 10 with suggests that there's an "plumbing outlet (inlet) at the bottom at this point.
4. The panels are set up in sets of 2-3-1-1-1 (not sure about the "bagged" ones) going from the rear forward.
#1545
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Going back to GF's idea (or was that Russ?) of using a knurled screwdriver as a press, I got this result by pressing on heavy foil with a piece of faux-leather underneath. The separations on the knurling may be a way of suggesting the "channels" on the original. Of course I'd have to buy a tool with this straight line knurling and then cut the slots at appropriate intervals. When you press the foil and then look at the opposite side, these channels are raised. The foil would also have to be laminated to the corrugated paper both for rigidity and for the honeycomb effect (which is not going to be perfect no matter what at this scale).
I'm going to try spraying on the primer to see if that lessens the effect. Strictly speaking this is now too many striations but it does to give a bit more of the impression of the original.
I'm going to try spraying on the primer to see if that lessens the effect. Strictly speaking this is now too many striations but it does to give a bit more of the impression of the original.
#1546
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Makes me wonder what I might be able to accomplish with a section of PVC pipe. What I need is something like a custom-cut rolling pin.
#1548
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
Experiment: Custom roller #1
Testing whether or not I'm capable of cutting sets of parallel grooves with a razor saw/file. These lines are spaced at 2mm and so actually a bit wider than scale. If it looks like I can cut 2mm lines then I'll try 1.5mm lines (which should be about right). But before, I couldn't maintain the ridges on cuts like these.
First observation: Wood is not a suitable materials for this application.
Testing whether or not I'm capable of cutting sets of parallel grooves with a razor saw/file. These lines are spaced at 2mm and so actually a bit wider than scale. If it looks like I can cut 2mm lines then I'll try 1.5mm lines (which should be about right). But before, I couldn't maintain the ridges on cuts like these.
First observation: Wood is not a suitable materials for this application.
#1549
Thread Starter
RE: CD ScaleDesigns Albatros CI build
This is worth spending some (more) time on since the radiators are so visible and also because I potentially need 40-80 of these knurled strips (10 panels per side, 2-4 per panel)!