i know there not his plans but he does modify them. as for my plans if you want to call them that, they were probably a much larger scale and he shrunk them down on a copier and called it 1/12 scale and you know and i know it doesn't work that way espcially when your reducing it throughs every thing out of wack. what he should have done is reworked every thing in cad for that small scale which is what i'm doing right now as we speak. thanks for input and as far as i'm concerned jamie is a hacker. this has been an interesting thread. thanks

Dear Spik with the many K's. I like your attitude.

That's me Lad! Go for it. The way I think is that the I was attracted to the plane in the first instance, so what's changed? (Don't answer that!) Let's get it built in spite of the mountain to climb and let's document the process so that others are aware of the changes we made! (Allegedly)

Good luck with your Nieuport 24 -- I suppose you can just look at this as a "kit basher's dream."

And to Don Coe, I wanted to say, that I've been following and learning from your builds over at RCSB for a long time and I'm quite certain you could build a museum scale model from nothing but a box of toothpicks!

Thank you for your flattering comments Mr Fletcher. I must apologise for my seemingly flippant posts just now - I'm on my third G&T - but I do realise that Mr Johnston has given many customers grief and I do have sympathy with them. Time to engender the wartime spirit, methinks. Lets stick together and weather the storm.
...and pour another drink[8D]

Just call me Don. Yet another one.

RCUniverse just got a LOT more interesting. Welcome to our humble hangout DonCoe. I look forward to some jaw-dropping builds. (..and I'll have my G shaken with a drop of V.)

Mike.

Humble Shmumble! This one's a lot more fun! Is it OK to document a build on this humble site? If so what's the best way?

You weren't here in time so I've taken it Mike!

Whenever I see an 'Arizona Models' thread pop up, I experience a flash of bad feelings. I'm sorry to say it, but it's just the way it is. Yes, I had designed a few models a while back, and was asked by AZM to supply these designs for their kit production use. The rest is history.[]
I've worked close with them before, and the company does try to 'do it all'. I don't believe they TRY to be deceptive, but the end results would appear that way.

I'd like to share an experience I had with them a long time ago, and perhaps you will get a better feel from a designer's perspective. I designed and built a 1/6th scale DH-1a intended for Scalemasters work. I put it through a pretty thorough testing/ adjusting program. CG and incidence was altered and tested, and being a pusher, the thrustline was experimented with since it was all new to me back then. The model ended up being a really good flyer! I finalized the plans, and at that time was asked to provide them to AZM. A year or so later, I just happened to be at their shop, and was checking out a copy of 'my' plans which had been enlarged to 1/4 scale. "WHAT THE....?" The incidence angles were ALL WRONG. Why? Because one of the shop's groupies, a scale RC "expert", advised that the angles can't be right.... So they were changed, and no mention of it was ever made to me. This was but just one of many disappointments over the years. I truly wish I had a better story to tell.

I will continue to design and build WW1 RC models, but will keep them closer to home.

John

Just listen to your own advice Don! However you do it will be awesome.


Regarding Proctor kits: My Nieuport 11 is coming together fast and painless despite being quite true-to-scale. There was a very minor discrepancy between instructions and plans (due to materials substitutions over the years) but the parts were heavily pre-fabricated, incredibly accurate, and were of high quality material. I had an extra set of upper wing nose ribs and no lower wing ribs in my kit. I called Proctor to see if they would make it right and had the swap gratis in about a week - and I told them up front I bought the kit on eBay!!!!! Though pricey, they've hit a good Price/Completeness ratio in my opinion. I must say it is one of the most enjoyable experiences in my 35 years of building.

Mike.

Absolutely! And it's really much easier and much faster than at RCSB. That's why I chose to document my Snipe build here. Just start a new "thread" by clicking on "New Post" and start posting away like you're doing here. There's no "outline structure" like over on RCSB. Most of us WWI buffs are here on the Scale Forum.

Uploading is a snap compared with RCSB. The software automatically resizes the photo and creates a thumbnail. The only tricky bit (and it not really even tricky) is that to post photos you need to remember to click on the "Post Reply" button instead of just using the "quick post" box at the bottom. The "upload files" button doesn't appear in the quick reply box.

As a general rule, the tradition here on RCU is towards shorter "here's what I've already done" type build threads. But a few of us have undertaken longer (too long???? ) RCSB-style thread, for example, my CDScaleDesigns Snipe thread, which has grown to 50 pages (mostly of agonizing) over about a year.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4853598/tm.htm

BTW, some might say we're not quite as "dicserning" here at RCU as the scale fanatics over on RCSB. Maybe, maybe not. I see us here as the fun place, where serious is also ok. Sadly, I've almost stopped visiting RCSB because it's so darn slow.

I just stumbled onto this thread and thought I'd add my experience with Arizona.

A few years ago at the WRAM's show they had a completed example of their DR1 on display and it just blew me away. The detail and quality of the build was fantastic. I was thinking of building a DR1 at the time, but I could not afford the price they were asking. I wound up building the BUSA kit.

I'm now building the BUSA Nieuport 11 and contacted Arizona for something - I can't remember what - and was told in conversation that they had a cockpit kit for the Nieuport 11/28 that was not yet on their website. I was quoted a price of $65 and placed the order.

I received the kit in good time, but was charged $95! I called and was told that I received the "deluxe" version of the kit. Well, I swallowed that because I had several issues with the parts in the kit that turned out to be my fault and that Arizona took care of anyway. I have to give them credit for that.

Now the kit: The parts included in it are great for the most part, but there are many parts not included that darn well should be for the price. Instrument housings, for instance, are not, and you are expected to make them from tubing or some other material. You are also expected to make the dials. Instrument faces are photo copies of French WW1 insturments and are useable. The instrument panel itself is not included, nor is the material to make one - minor, yes, but not for $95. There are some laser cut ply parts that are unidentifiable and not referred to or pictured in the very limited instructions provided. I have no clue what they are for, even after examining the cockpit photos. There are some great cockpit photos in the instuction book of various Nieuports, but practically no instructions or photos showing how to build/assemble the kit. There are also some unusable plexiglass parts to make a compass, but some of the parts - like the main housing - are not included. The only compass part I wound up using was the photocopied dial face.

The good parts of the kit include the seat and leather. Plexiglass instrument lenses are also supplied.

Since I bought this sight unseen, I feel I may have no right to complain about the quality, lack of parts and the instuctions. So I kept and used what I could of the kit. In my opinion, this kit is NOT worth $65, let alone $95.

If I ever do business with Arizona again, I will make sure ahead of time exactly what I am getting and a guarantee from them that the item is complete and in stock. It will then go on my charge card so that it can be disputed if necessary.

I have done business with AZM once, NEVER again. If I can't find what I am looking for elsewhere, I'll make it myself or I really don't need it. J.J. needs to be in Sherriff Joe's tent camp!

That sounds pretty much like their Mercedes engine "kit." Nearly a hundred bucks for not much more than a bag of wood and a photocopy of Wylam's drawings.

Again, this really is all a shame. I think AZM does have something to contribute to the hobby -- and can be a successful business -- but things clearly have to change starting with being more upfront about what's actually being sold. I'd strongly recommend that they people at AZM start by put up photos of each of their products (as it would arrive at your door). And maybe more realistic prices need to follow.

Actually, they need to start by shipping your order when they suck the money out of your account. Not 6 months later (if you're extremely lucky to get it at all).

The proof of the pudding is in the product!
Why is Proctor getting all the praise? rightfully so?
Just ask any one with a Proctor product.
"The quality remains, long after the price is forgotten."

-- Sir John Ruskin (1819-1900)

A fitting motto indeed.

However "Caveat emptor " is still pertinate even today, although I would wish to see "Caveat venditor" applied more.

Don Coe, Welcome to a thread site that will let me say welcome without having the post deleted by the "Not on TOPIC" Gestapo. Ok, I can see thier point, but it does take away the fun of chatting with like minded people.

Brian, why do you not just call and chat with them? You can talk anyone out of anything...that reminds me, where is that 5.00 you borrowed last year?

Ummm....Gee David.....I thought I paid you back! LOL

I talked to them enough last year which turned into to threatening leagal action, but hey, that did the trick!

doncoe,
Glad to see you here.Welcome!

J

you seem like a decent guy, well read and you seem to know what your talking about so why are you so quick to defend AZM? are you related to jamie, or maybe your jamie using another handle. anyway no disrespect intended. jamie j is not a nice man with no redeeming qualities and he's probably beating some some poor unsuspecting sap (likemyself) out of his money as we speak. this has been going on for years, its not like its an honest mistake and he's not aware of it. ive heard 100's of testimonials over the past few days and 95 percent of them are not good. why is he still in buisness? he misrepresents himself and his company and at the very least his company should be sued or shut down for false advertising. its not tricky wording like a lawyer would use its a total fabrication. he does not deliver what he says he's going to deliver, then when you want your money back he wont give it to you and you have to dispute with your credit card company. i love this hobby just as you do, so when you expect somthing really great like his website says and you get a kit with multiple problems and its not what youwere led to believe it just breaks your heart. ive met rapist and bankrobbers with better character traits. i just dont know how he gets away with it? just cant understand why you defend him when he's hurt so many people.

I for one, hate having to say something bad about a WWI vendor no matter how egregious. Though I want to hang the AZM guy upside down I'm desperate for interesting airplanes. (Reminds me of Fokker and the Idflieg.)

But with so many sterling suppliers out there (Proctor, Balsa USA, Glenn Torrence, Scale Designs, Mick Reeves, Williams Bros) I for one think it's time to call a spade a spade.

At least the internet allows a ray of sunshine on poor business practices so more folks won't get taken for a ride. Maybe AZM will see this and realize they need to make some serious course corrections.

This is how I feel. There are relatively few companies serving the WWI modeling market (vs. the gazillions offering P-51 ARFS). I don't know Jaime from Adam. I've only had one simple transaction with AZM (ordered a copy of Polapink's DIII plans in the scale he designed them) which went well. I did once concider ordering one of the kits but the negative comments here (even several years ago) changed my mind.

I suppose I just wish there WERE a company like AZM that really WOULD provide the wide range of products and services that AZM CLAIM to provide. I wish there WERE a place where I COULD order a 1/6 scale Mercedes kit for a reasonable price (which I take to be about $30). I wish there WERE a place selling everything-included (including a jig) spoked wheel kits that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

But apparently AZM isn't that company.

Thanks, Don Fletcher for the posting info.
I feel that I've said enough on this thread and will close by thanking you guys for the warm welcome to thee pages.

I will shortly be starting a couple of build threads of my own.
One will be the Mick Reeves 1/3 scale Bleriot XI and the other the Proctor Albatros DV.

I will be looking forward to your contributions and advice as always.

Cheers.
DC

We'll all be looking forward to them!

PS. Actually, it's Don Carroll. My screenname "AbuFletcher" dates back to when I was living in the Middle East and means "Father of Fletcher." This is a common way to make nicknames in Arabic. Here on RCU people call me abufletcher, AF, Don, or just Abu. It's all good.

In terms of posting photos, I'll also mention that there seems to be some problem upload when using Safari. So if you're using a Mac (as I am) you'll need to use Explorer (or maybe one of the other browsers) to post photos.