Anyone who wants to spend that much, I will have a ready to fly 1/3rd scale Albatros DIII in a ready to fly condition available (After the world championships) for just a bit more. A very proven provinence.

Dave

Spikkkk

The BBB isn't going to do anything, but there is always the Federal Trade Commission, and the Department of Consumer Affairs.

Les

...but then you see a great model like this apparently from AZM:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4362643/tm.htm

Well, I think you need to purchase a kit of that plane & report back to us your impression of what YOU get.
From what I see of that thread, that gentleman could work from plans with the best of them.

I would have no problem with saying that AZM is up with the better kit providers IF their business practices were up to what is considered acceptable and their product was approching the quality of Proctors.
At this point it is buyer beware on both points.
If the product were up to better standards everyone would put up with unacceptable business standards and long waits, but it's not.
Let's face it, it's hard to make a good living in the model business alone hence the avaiation display company. That's also why you will not see any more improvement in the kit contents in my opinion.

I know what you mean. The wonderful model on that thread may have been scratch-built just from John Cole's plans being marketed through AZM.

Wanna bet?......i've seen their kits.............ain't nothin like Proctor or Mick Reeves kits.
should they even get their operation running like it should they will now always have these black eyes to deal with.

I'm not trying to be supportive of AZM. But as a WWI modeler I sure wish there WERE some company offering AND DELIVERING what AZM's website promises. As for "their kits" well as I've said before there really isn't any such thing as an AZM kit. All you have is a variety of WWI plans by a variety of (highly skilled) scale modelers, which are being badly package as a box of wood claiming to be a kit.

I just wish there WERE some responsible company out there offering quality kits of, for example, John Cole's outstanding Hansa-Brandenburg CI. Proctor makes great kits but their offerings are fairly limited.

Honestly, I can't imagine that anything short of a total change of ownership could turns this nasty rep around.

I was just rereading the thread and this quote by CrateCruncher sums up my feelings.

abu, the thing with Joe at Proctor is that he is upfront from the very beginning of the order......he'll tell you approx. wait time for the kit and when the kit does arrive it's first class.
have a problem with any one stick in the kit and he's got a new piece off to you the next day.
AZM is making it tough on all the current kitters with their antics.............they deserve no support and should be blackballed from here on out.
people in Europe who order kits from US kitters should not be treated this way.

I agree completely. What I'd like to see is someone taking over the AZM business and restructuring it.

I have had good and bad experience with Jaime. I agree with the description of the Mercedes engine kit (at least he has one available where no one else does). Lots of missing parts, lots of work not expected with a kit etc.
On the other hand, Jaime stood by me when my 8 inch spinner let loose on my Albi and self destructed. Gave me a reduced rate and quick service on a replacement.

However, Ive had terrible experience with Larry Katona at PCK - even worse than AZM. I built the PCK DR1 and the kit is a ripoff. Made Larry recut many of the ribs as he can't read a blueprint correctly! Much of the material in the design was either not there, or not cut to shape as specified in Larry Weiss's plans. Had to supply and cut many of my own parts because of errors. Could have scratch built it easier. I would never recommend PCK, but I might try Jaime again for some of his accessory kits. So AZM is not the only one.......

Seems these forums are a good place to pick up on info about suppliers.

AZM for accessory kits. I am waiting going on 6 months for a pair of 1/8 Spandau kits. All I get in response to my e-mails is the same line of BS that he feeds everyone. I get the distinct feeling that I am dealing in a situation where "lights are on, but nobody's home"; or that Jamie puts everyone else in that catagory.

Les

Guy's you are wasting too much energy on this. Life is too short. It's really sad but bad business is a fact of life in the USA and unless someone is stealing money from the government nothing gets done about it. The bad guy's know most of us can't afford or just won't spend the money to take the legal route. You can try small claims court (don't need a lawyer) and have the vendor served for a court appearance which they probably will not want or show up for which will put them in contempt and then you can try to get a judgment against them which will after awhile make it really hard for them to get loans or make other financial transactions. How much is your time worth to you? There isn't any quick or cheap solution. On a better note, If you don't already know it, GTM is working on a 1/3 scale SE5. Now that is something to get excited about. [sm=teeth_smile.gif]

I think the best thing to do is try to let as many people know how bad AZM is. That way they will go out of business. Everyone just needs to keep talking bad about them. That is what is great about the forums

Agree absolutely!

After reading all these posts from victims I'd say theres a pretty strong case for mail fraud. Here's a wiki:[link]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_fraud[/link]

In addition, there is the Consumer Fraud Act. The Attorney General in Arizona is Terry Goddard. You can file a complaint online:[link]http://www.azag.gov/consumer/[/link]

I don't want to fan the flames but maybe if the state AG got involved AZM might get the message!

Please tell me things have changed with AZM, we have twelve kits on order from him for Dawn Patrol (uk) Which is an intregal part of the Large Model Assosiation (uk) and have paid out £4000..00 up front back at the end of August 2008. That was befor the S...T hit the fan on the money front and the rate of exchange was good.If indeed the kits arrive in good nick then I will info all on this site good,bad, or indifferent. If they dont well that is another matter.Got to say the last hour on this site is to say the least depressing reading. I will keep you informed. My regards to all Ken (DP/UK COORDINATER)

I think you'd better expect the worse and start mapping out a battle plan right away. Maybe, because of the size of your order you will be able to push Jaime to get your orders out right away. But even then, you've got to expect that the kits will not but up to your expectations. I assume you've also seen this other thread on AZM (and there are even more):

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7714698/tm.htm

If nothing as been delivered I'd look seriously into canceling the order immediately.

I take on board all you say oh son of fletcher, and thank you for your imput.The situation as well you can imagine isnt quite as simple as that in so far as the 12 guys all put their money into the collective pot,As well you imagine ordering goods at this distance is complex what with carriage, customs duty etc, but going off adverts and earlier experiance with US companies we naturally thought that AZM trod the same path. I have had dealings with Glen Torrance and the service has allways been magic, When in the US I found that service was of paramount importance, a real pleasure in fact dealing with them. I honestly cant see why AZM can act in the way laid out in this forum, We have a large second order ready to go to AZM once the first order is delivered so naturally some of the guys are reluctant to rock the boat. A catch 22 situation if ever there was one. No company can survive, surely not, going the rout as stated on this forum. I will keep you all posted as to any developments of this you can be sure. my regards to all Ken Hart (DP/UK)

Actually, that's "Father of Fletcher." The one hope in your case is that you've put in a large order. It may be possible that Jaime provides a different level of service to his "big customers" than he does to individual modelers. But when even a well-known scale modeler such as Donnie Coe gets shafted (long wait and poor quality kit) it's hard to hold out much hope for better treatment. I will state (again) for the record that I've only had one official dealing with AZM. I ordered a set of plans a couple of years ago. I spoke to Jaime on the phone about making sure they were shipped right away since I would be leaving the country. And the plans did, in fact, arrive as promised.

I'm willing to write off a few negative internet comments, but honestly, I've never heard or read a single positive report about an AZM kit on this or any other forum. Oh, there's no doubt that some stunning models are represented (often the prototype build by the designer) and some very dedicated modelers have build some fantastic models despite (rather than because of) the quality of the kits. Search the Scale Forum for a Hansa-Brandenburg by an extremely talented Spanish modeler (who could have build the thing from plans).

Anyway, good luck and do keep up posted. But I do think you'd be wish to take a "proactive" stance on the first order rather than just waiting and assuming service like you got from GTM.

BTW, what's the story of this Dawn Patrol?

Hi, Ken & Fletchers Dad.

Well, Well, Well. Here we go again eh! I'm so sorry to hear of your plight, Ken. Been there, done that... I hope that you have more luck than I had, and I consider myself lucky in that I actually received a kit from AZM. That is until it was delivered. All I've used from the contents are the turnbuckles. $1100 well spent I hear you say? Oh! that didn't include the carriage and horrendous import duty. (Not the fault of AZM).

A collegue paid for a 1/3 scaled DH2, waited nearly a year and eventually received a refund in full. So you see that AZM are not all bad!

I go along with abufletcher on this one. Get out ASAP. There again you might have the luck of the Devil and the goods will turn up tomorrow and your delighted with them and are able to call the rest of us s**t stirrers!

I sincerely hope that it's the latter outcome.

ATB
Don

I do thank you guys for your input. It is now 7.30 sunday evening ere so there isnt much that can be done tonight. Besides that I am not the only one involved and I need to think out just what to do next.I am stunned the way things look and I have to state for the record I dont believe for one moment that your experiences are ficticious, I also believe that this is the tip of a b.....dy big iceberg as tyhere must be many more out there we dont know about, just how many we may never know.Even now I find it hard to believe, I must be what doctors call in denial. I keep thinking please please someone post that you had a GTM experiance with AZM. THANKS AGAIN GUYS, i WILL KEEP YOU POSTED. my regards to you all Ken..........PS. Dawn Patrol UK is a bunch of guys all within the LMA (Large Model Association) who build and fly as a demonstration team 1/3rd scale WW.1 a/c built and flown to a high standard. There are about 30 of us with a waiting list of about the same number. Ken

Stay away from AZM and if u have an order in get a refund ASAP and stay on Jammie until u do. I ordered 3 kits way back when the had park flyers and waited nearly 6 mo. Then i was foolish enough to order an gm kit that took forever to get. nice gun but instructions leave much to be desired for all items. Tell the whole world not to order from
AZM!!!!!!!!!!![sm=punching.gif][sm=angry_smile.gif][sm=48_48.gif][sm=thumbs_down.gif][>:]

Ken, your club is awesome and a great inspiration to many. I have seen many posts around the web about your planes. I hope all works well for you...good luck.