I have an answer about using the Tamiya apple on the SLU.

That is not to say that you could not create a cover for it that will give you 45 degree defense and fins as Phil has done with the DBC. I will look into doing the same for the SLU.

Yes you will need to do something as the SLU will be at a disadvantage when playing the TBU game. This is why it is so important to have a set of standards. If you get 6 different versions of IR with no standards between them this will become a real mess, and actually start dividing the hobby into their own camps, and this hobby isn't big enough for that.

Now if Tamiya guys adopt the cone reflector to do away wiht the 45 degree defence that would go along way to setting the systems on a level playing field.. The big question is will a crtical mass of Tamiya tankers consider this a necessary thing to do????.

Small interjection for the airsoft crowd...

Looks like we wouldn't need the controller or the battle unit. It appears that there isn't any programming necessary for an airsoft tank. Just plug the airsoft unit into the same spot as the recoil (if using IR &recoil) and you're up and running. Correct?

Also, would you have to buy a tank-specific SLU? Meaning that the sounds are not programmable. I couldn't take the SLU from a Pershing, reprogram the sounds and put it into a Tiger...or are the sounds stored on something like that a micro SD card that can be replaced depending upon the type of tank that it's placed into?

Yes, it plugs into the spot where the recoil goes. There will be instructions regarding how to do this as I believe there are some jumpers that need to be set (Hulu will correct me on this)

Each SLU has specific sounds. No you can't take a M26 SLU and reprogram it for a Tiger. I like the SD card idea though. I'll pass that on to the manufacturer.

The remote programmer is only for the IR battle system.

Yes, there is a jumper for airsoft

Thanks for the feedback.

The SD card would allow a single SLU to move between tanks and just trade SD cards for sounds.

So, the big question...would a vendor consider offering an airsoft package that doesn't have the IR parts or the IR price? 

hi Phill,
Not every rc-tanker will move they control unit from one tank to another... On other hand.. you should think about the cost..
on your second question.. You can ask Tim directly,,, I think you will get the answer you want.

Philipat,

reply sent to your email.

I always find the discussion of TBU vs other unshielded XBU's interesting. If the TBU is the standard, and i do see that, then someone, using something more sensitive, just needs to be aware of that and accept that fact, no biggy, and should not disrupt the play nor be eliminated from the competition.
We have mixed "XBU" at many of Kelly's Heroe's meetings and it never even gets any discussion. If something else was the standard, say el-mod, then the TBU "might" be the unit that everyone would consider harder to knock out. Make sense?

Clubs are free to do what they want to do. Once you start a universal standard, where does it end? Turret speeds, IR ranges, etc? Who should compromise? The TBU crowd, the ELMOD crowd, the DBC or SLU crowd? Should the Sherman fight on equal terms with the Panther? Does Playstation share the same standards as Nintendo? No.[8D]

And I don't see it as divisive, I see it as adding flexibility. RC Tankers now have more choices than ever.

Giving the SLU 45 degree defense is not hard. Phil has proven that when he made the apple covers for the DBUs (nice work btw, I own 2 of them). If there is a demand for the apple covers, I will do my best to provide it with the SLU system.

What I like about the SLU is that it will give a Heng Long user more on their initial investment. Our club is growing and the SLU makes it even easier for tankers to get more out of their hobby, especially if they want Tamiya compatible IR and better sound. The package is attractive to new tankers too. Growth is good.

when it comes to sherman tank its equivelant rival was a panzer 3 short barrel 75mm any thing larger was a sherman killer one shot its over the sherman could not survive any direct hit from a 75mm long barrel gun front side or rear so to be fare on the rc battle ground a sherman should be one hit your done same as for a panzer 3 or panzer 4 for the other gernman tanks front hits 0 damage side hits close range your done long range 1 dame hit 6 your done long range only

I agree. HGowever on the flip side if clubs with the SLU's like the fact they can turn down the sensitvity on the JAGD, I guess Tamiya equipped tanks will have to get use to closing within 20 meters to register hits on SLU equipped tanks with this feature.

Standards are important. I came from a model railroad background, and NMRA standards on DCC were instrumental in assuring all consumers that bought any DCC devices that the device they bought would work with other brands as well.

From an IR point of view we should at least acknowledge that the IR frequency should be a standard. Wouldn't it be nice if out of the box HL tanks or WSN tanks would play with Tamiya tanks. Even if it was limited compatiblity it would be nice if the tanks could give and take hits with no modification. On the battlefield it would just then be recognized that an HL tank is dead in Five hits regardless of what the armor is.

IF everyone likes the 45 degree and slope defense then I guess it will be up to themakers of EL Mod and SLU to conform or be at a disadvantage. That is a pretty onesided argument. Especially if we start seeing Heng Long equipped tanks dominate the battlefield because people like the EL MOD and SLU's enhanced game play over the plain Tamiya gig. Without minimum standards there is a risk of systems being obsoleted as the technology advances. And it may very well be the Tamiya system that gets eclipsed

This SLU is cheaper and has advanced IR features. Heng long equipped tanks with this sytem will in fact have have a superior IR game. Much like ELmod has now. However do the advanced features of El mod equate to the featurss of the SLU. Chances are no, so because of no standards we have system the are exculsive to themselves, and are either at a distinctive disadavantge or advantage, depenmding on the sytem you buy, To me that is an unfortunate development, and it would be better to advance this part of the hobby under some agreed to minimums.

YHR, no one is forcing any Tamiya equipped tank owners to combat SLU equipped tanks with reduced IR sensitivity. The SLU offers a voluntary option, that's it. Clubs can make up their own rules and have fun doing it. I don't know where you are going with this comment.

I agree that for a manufacturer to produce a new system, using the Tamiya IR frequency only makes sense if he wants to stay in business. That is what the market wants. The SLU uses that Tamiya IR frequency.


Superior IR Game??? Again, where are you going with this? Can you clarify? Superior in what way?


Yes, it is cheaper. We wanted it to be cheaper. Some people don't like spending the cost of an IPad on tank electronics.



I like the idea that our club (if we want to) can now rate our tanks damage capacity from 3 to 12. We can create all kinds of great "Goliath" killer scenarios now.



I am getting the feeling that the "We need Standards" argument is solely based on that idea that without it, people will "Cheat" and ruin everyone's fun if we don't have them.

I agree Dan. A standard must be maintained. you are not going to get the hundreds of users that already own the TBU to accept a system that can limit their abillity to inflict damage at a ratio that is out side the norm for the TBU.
Tim has a point that any club has a right to use whatever system they want, BUT if you want to compete in sanctioned formal competitions that have established rules and requirements then this system may not be admissable with some of the adjustable features.
I on the other hand feel that the 45 degree defense needs to go and Tamiya needs to adress this.

Your taking offense to a statement that is not ment to be offensive.
There is a long established system that is in play with rules completely based on that system.
A new system that comes along just because it is on the same freq does not meen that it will be accepted in sanctioned play.
Again you are correct Tim, every club has a right to use what they want but you CAN NOT expect it to be permitted on playing fields that use the TBU as a standard, which most do. there is even a governing body who over see's these sacntioned competitions and they have very strickt guidlines as to performance.

On a personal note, I think it is great what you are doing and offering as it gives EVERYONE a chance to compete, even the Airsoft guys, and especially those on tight budgets. Which includes just about everyone I know. But it is hard to fight City Hall.<div> the adjust ability is a very cool function, but it will prevent any user from joining in any TBU based competition. It would just not be allowed.</div>

Hi Panther G,
I think we should stop to discuss if it is allowed to join the TBU based competition. it is totally useless.
You never use it. Is that correct?How couldyou judgethis new stuff only basing on the photoes and some description words.
Maybe it can be accepted by the Tamiya(TBU) tanker after they use that. Who knows.

PantherG,

thanks for your response and positive comments. The TBU is a great system, I have one in my Sherman. I love it. And I won't talk ill about or discourage anyone of going with another system.

Our club and others don't play by such restrictions, but I can understand why the standards are need in competition. If that is your cup of tea, then Tamiya is your flavor.

When I participated in the TSN Firefighter Combat Challenge, there was little or no drug testing, so guys would take every advantage they could to win. That turned me off, so I decided to just have fun with it and compete against myself.

Our club uses TBUs, DBC, and SLUs now. It about having fun and I think that is what most clubs and tankers are looking for. The SLU will give you that.



We will have some more news about the SLU soon. We are being sent Ver 4.0 which has a surprise.

I have no other motive then to get the industry on the same page sooner than later for the benefit of all consumers.

Without standards it will be a free for all in time, trust me. Right now the critical mass of clubs are Tamiya based and people are conforming to that standard. They have to if they want to play the game. However as more and more system become available, and the people buy other systems because they are cheaper, or offer other avenues to enjoy IR combat, there will come a time where people will want to use these features, and be a critical mass when they will say, I don’t think I want to play that Tamiya game anymore. Then the division in this hobby will start. The more exclusively unique systems that are out there the bigger the problem will become.

IF the designers of El –Mod ,SLU, Heng Long, WSN and all others to come had a template that the National Model Tank Association had agree on, we could have five systems that were compatible at a base level. Without a template they do what they want, and we got three that kind of work together and two that don’t. That is a missed opportunity, and as more and more manufacturers arrive on the scene it will only get worse without some standard.

Tim a superior system in my opinion is one that offers more options to battle. With that definition the SLU appears to be superior to the Tamiya system, just as the El mod system is. I call it as I see it. Yes the Tamiya system is great the TBU is a good IR detector. I am not trying to take away anything from that system, but the truth is it will soon be under attack by many different systems, all that are offering something unique to consumers. On the surface this all looks great until you realize that we all have a common need, and the manufacturers won’t know what that is until we all can agree on it. A hobby is much stronger if 500 people buy equipment that all has the ability to work together. Right now we have Tamiya, Heng Long and WSN producing IR tanks that don’t work with one another. That is not a good thing for the consumers of these tanks. The hobby would be stronger if an IR standard was adopted to allow these three brands to at least deliver and take hits.

I am not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here, but am just stating the obvious harmony a good set of standards can deliver to the consumer. An electrical standard can be something as simple as the arrangement of pins in an IR sensor. The Tamiya and DBC are the same. I can plug any TBU into a DBC or one of Davids DBU can be used on any Tamiya tank. Right now if Tamiya owners wanted to they could adopt David’s $15.00 4 sensor DBU and use it. It would work on all Tamiya systems. That is an example of what a standard can buy for you. Wouldn’t it have been nice if El mod and the SLU built their sensors so the five pins are exactly the same as the Tamiya and DBC. That way an EL Mod user or an SLU user could just plug in a TBU if he wanted to be on exactly the same footing as Tamiya user. Any yes I know the ELmod has more pins, but that shouldn't stop them for making the first row of five the same as TBU and the DBU

I am sorry to muddy this thread with this . It truly is going down another complete avenue. I am standing on a soap box going off on a complete tangent from the intent of the thread that it to inform the public of a great new product..

Bottom line is, I like what you are bringing to the market. It is at least compatible with Tamiya and El Mod on the IR frequency side of things, and will allow users to put the system together. So it appears as if an IR frequency standard is at least emerging, Now if only Heng Long and WSN would pick up on that too.

Dan

Not to throw a spanner in the works, while I agree it would be nice if they all worked together the bottom line is none of it was really designed for it from the get go.

You would be asking a group of manufacturers with different marketing goals, in different countries to confirm to a standard based in North America. From a manufacturers point of view, how many people actually utilise the IR systems out of the whole tank ownership.

Not to mention as proliferation of the Chinese products increases and Tamiya decreases then who knows what system will be used in the future.

This is based on the fact that more people own Heng Long than Tamiya, or WSN. Also on the fact that as Heng Long continue to produce new tanks, at lower cost and with constant improvements then there is a good bet in the future they may well become the standard setters.

Still this system looks great, I will never use theIRsystem in any of the tanks, I appreciate people really enjoy it but for me it is rather boring, then again so is the airsoft. I just like driving around! So if the system produces something equivalent to el mod at a cheaper price then all good.

With that in mind, the option to purchase a system that doesn't come with the IRequipment would be best.

I use the TBU on a regular basis as this is the system the club i belong to uses. From having battled at Danville and getting to know the people who battle there on a regular basis. They would be very reluctant to allow a system that has features that can be altered from the TBU system. this is from expierience not speculation.
Quite a few of those players rely completely on the 45 degree defense. It is really your only defense against many of those players.
Under sanction contests just the simple fact that this new system can be altered out side of the TBU parameters leads me to beleive that it simply would not be allowed.
Eventually someone who would know for sure will chime in here and confir this I am sure.

This really cant be accepted as the gospel either. Tamiya has been in the buisiness in Japan far longer than HL in China. The numbers here are mostlikely the exact opposite from what you are saying. you thousands of HL's and hundreds of Tamiya's. I don't think that fly's. The IR Tamiya tank has been around many years longer than the Airsoft HL. HL is getting biggwer. but they have not sold more tanks than Tamiya at this point. That oneday may change but if HL really wants Tamiya's dominance, they will need to be compatable with Tamiya TBU. Just as the Impact system that has been on the market for the last 2 years which everyone here seems to have forgotten.
And unfortunately you will still have the Tam?HL who's better debate as long as the hobby stays alive. It will do none of us any good if we have 20 new battle systems if there are no standards of atleast Shot and Hit compatibility. I realize the SLU has this but the point remains, it can be altered to work differently than the TBU and that will prevent it from being accepted at the established contest/ events that are sanctioned by a governing body.

STO_118,
SLU is that kind of system that can be sold without IR, you can contact Tim. He will give your more detail.

True, but I am not talking about about distant history but more of current history. In the UK at least, I would definately say Heng Long has outsold Tamiya by a long shot, at least in the last few years. I am not saying that more people use Heng Long for your club battles, most likley the opposite. It has nothing to do with the 'better' tank but to do with market share. On average a Heng Long tank is less than 10% the cost of a similar Tamiya tank. It is cheaper and therefore more accessible to people of all ages. With the amount of units they are shifting Heng Long can afford a great deal more investment and hopefully that will lead us to more tanks with improved hardware.

Imay be wrong, but aren't these aftermarket electronics aimed at non-Tamiya owners anyway and isn't the IR system but a small part?

Or more to the point, if it is such a serious contest, you should have officials checking the tanks were not modified out of regulation anyway. If that was in place then I cannot see why the SLU would pose such a threat. For normal club battles amongst themselves it doesn't really matter they should sort it out amongst themselves.

If the potential problem of this system, or any new system, is that it can be altered outwith the normal parameters then checking and holding the tanks upon entry into an event or competition is a fairly easy solution. In my experience that is generally the norm for any event, whether it be horses, cars or gaming.

Good news, that helps

Hi STO_118,
SLU is not a simple update, it is a whole solution for your tanks.
You like to drive your rc tank , OK. It can give you different drive experience :-) .