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3D Print Project SSYMS 80 ton 1/16th Scale

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3D Print Project SSYMS 80 ton 1/16th Scale

Old 09-08-2019, 03:01 PM
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Shark27
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Originally Posted by Ex_Pat_Tanker View Post
I'm using Volker Ruff's book as a reference: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Strabokran-...s%2C141&sr=8-1
Martin,
As am I, at least I will once I receive it, actually I have designed almost all the parts already, using what I could of the files I downloaded (not very much). Similar circumstance as before, probably should have started from scratch. I did that on the girders as the frame work on the downloads they had them rectangular instead of square. I also had to invent the mounting points to look more accurate. Not to Hi-Jack my own thread but here is what I downloaded.
Villie Vonka Panther Factory

Not to beat the guy up too bad, as I am sure he has a lot of time and effort invested and I probably wouldn't have thought of doing it from scratch originally, if I hadn't seen what he had done. He did leave a lot out of the model.
Here are some of the more bold errors, the axle and wheels,



.The round things with the flats on one side are the axles.Here is a photo of the real Crane and a 1'35 scale model of one..


Here is what I have done.


The biggest thing that through me off was in his pictures he has the upper support girders upside down which made his platforms incorrect when I went to put them right side up. I understand why he did it, normally in a support structure you want the larger area on the bottom, but the Germans did not do that with the upper support, the big end goes up.

Anyway this project has been running concurrently with the SSYMS Rail Car, when I got tired of working on it I would design something for the Fries Crane.
So it is coming along as well.
Martin, since you have the book, you will spot all that was left out of the downloaded model and have an idea of all the parts I will have to create.
Wish me luck!
End of my Hi-Jacking my own thread!
Steve
Old 09-09-2019, 09:04 AM
  #27  
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Well I guess the gauntlet has been thrown down huh
Old 09-09-2019, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex_Pat_Tanker View Post
Well I guess the gauntlet has been thrown down huh
I assume you were planning to print one? A little friendly competition?

I may be way ahead of you on designing parts, but yours will likely be more accurate since you have the book to start from, I understand the book has a dimensioned drawing in there of the whole crane, at least one of the reviews I read said they did, they also said the book was worth it just for that drawing alone, never mind all the photographs.
Here is something I had to do from scratch, some of the 1/35th scale kits don't even include it, from what I have read.

I like your rendering, how much have you printed?
Have fun!
Steve

Last edited by Shark27; 09-09-2019 at 04:33 PM.
Old 09-10-2019, 08:54 AM
  #29  
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Yeah its on my all too lengthy to-do list, I suspect you might get yours done first at the rate I keep getting distracted ...

One of the things I really do like about Fusion 360 is its ability to import an image and scale it for use as a reference - its not perfect, but its good enough to get you somewhere close enough that you can lay the basic shapes out and tweak them afterwards:

Last edited by Ex_Pat_Tanker; 09-10-2019 at 09:09 AM.
Old 09-10-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex_Pat_Tanker View Post
Yeah its on my all too lengthy to-do list, I suspect you might get yours done first at the rate I keep getting distracted ...

One of the things I really do like about Fusion 360 is its ability to import an image and scale it for use as a reference - its not perfect, but its good enough to get you somewhere close enough that you can lay the basic shapes out and tweak them afterwards:
Martin,
Tinkercad definitely has it's limitations. You can import an SVG file to use as a template, which is what I did for the SSYMS Bogie sideplates.
That bracket for hoisting the Panther turret looks like it would be a pain in the butt to design.
I did my support outrigger posts a bit different and made them threaded internally so there is some fine adjustment to get them to contact the ground firmly. I couldn't really tell how it was actually adjusted from the photos I saw, except the holes of course. I also threaded the feet for more adjustment. Getting internal and external threads to work together was probably the hardest thing to do, I had to do a bunch of test prints to get them right, the shrinkage factor was the biggest problem to figure out.
Steve.
Old 09-17-2019, 07:44 AM
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Wow! I am impressed! great work!
Old 09-17-2019, 01:18 PM
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Thanks Will coming from you that means a lot, your Panzer IV thread is great.
Steve
Old 09-19-2019, 10:52 AM
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thanks, i hope you can make it up to Danville again soon! some more updates coming to the Panzer IV thread as well!
Old 09-20-2019, 12:21 PM
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I will try to get up to Danville in November if possible, I'll bring some of my projects along with a couple of tanks to run.

Steve
Old 10-04-2019, 03:15 AM
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I hope you can make it, its been a few years since I have seen you there!
Old 10-04-2019, 12:14 PM
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Yeah it has been a while never seem to have the time & money at the same time always one or the other, maybe this Nov. or next May.
Steve .
Old 02-29-2020, 06:12 PM
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This project is not dead, It took a little vacation.
A lot has happened since I last posted, mostly work got in the way and I moved to a new address, (boy did I have a lot of hobby stuff to move). it took me until almost December to get the 3D printer back up and running.

The good news is with all that work I got some additional funds to help along my projects.
I purchased a couple of 1/35 scale kits to use as a reference to create parts from, instead of relying on the inaccurate drawings (I still use them just not only them).

I bought the Sabre SSYMS 80 ton Kit for this project and the Takom Strabokran with the V2 Rocket 1/35th scale kit for my Fries Crane project. Since it includes the V2 and the trailer I guess I will have to model the rocket and trailer at some point after these two projects are done.


Sabre 1/35th scale kit



Surprisingly I found that some of the SSYMS parts I modeled for 3D printing weren't very far off from the way the kit parts were done.

Anyway with this new found reference information, I decided to redo the main bed of the SSYMS rail car to make it more prototypical and add some additional detail.
Using the kit as a guide I measured the kit parts and derived the 1/16th scale dimensions for most of the parts I created, I did reference the dimensions on the German drawings I had when the kit parts did not jive with reality ( not many instances of this but a couple).

Luckily I only had to make a few compromises in designing parts so that they would be easier to 3D print.
A good example was the main framework of the bed, In 1:1 scale it was of standard I-Beam construction, in 3D printing the only way to print an I Beam as one piece is to print it standing on end, this is not the best way to print a 270 mm beam as the layer lines are along the wrong axis for it to have any strength, it would easily snap in two when any load was exerted on it.

Ideally the way to print it is lying down but with the overhangs it would require a lot of support to print the horizontal section. It also extends the printing time dramatically which would be unacceptable.

The solution is to cut the I-Beam into two parts, the lower section has the flat part of the beam with the vertical upright section and the upper section is just a flat piece with a slot for the vertical part of the lower section to fit into it. I had done this before with the I-Beam for the Bogie cross-braces.

I constructed everything together in Tinkercad and then grouped all of the upper sections together created an object of them and did the same to the lower sections In order to print these parts they were sectioned into three pieces, as have the side of the bed. With the slots in the pieces, alignment and assembly of the upper and lower sections is relatively straightforward.
There are also holes in the different sections to allow for alignment and joining I use piano wire which goes all the way through the center section and into the end sections.

Here is a couple of the parts I created in Tinkercad.


SSYMS Framework Bottom

SSYMS Framework Bottom Upside down




SSYMS Bed Redesign WIP


Joining the three sections was relatively easy but joining the top of the framework to the bottom was not as easy as I would have liked, the problem? SHRINKAGE!

In 3D printing whenever you try to create two parts that mate together you have to allow for some shrinkage of the parts, which includes slots, holes, posts, inside and outside dimensions, the hard part is it varies depending on the particular filament's properties, some shrink more than others and may shrink more on one axis than another and may vary by the thickness of the plastic.

Suffice it to say there is a lot of shrinkage going on! I have found by a little trial and error, by printing small sections of mating parts first to test out how much to compensate for the particular joint of the two pieces.

Sorry if this is getting a little technical on the aspects of 3D printing but it may help those new to 3D printing and prevent some headaches.

At this point I should mention I have found a filament that I am now using for this project, I will likely use it on any new projects requiring strength and or flexibility It is called "POLYMAX".
It is more expensive than traditional PLA that I had been using (about $40.00 USD for 750 grams) but they claim it is 9 times stronger than standard PLA filament and comparable in strength to ABS filament without the toxic fumes.

After using a whole spool on this project and different items, I for one believe their claims, it's great! It prints very well with normal PLA settings on my CR-10S printer and is very strong and very flexible.

Back to the parts, I was able to get the parts to join together properly after some adjustment to the dimensions (read filing and sanding) and some reprinting.

Before I started redesigning the bed, I actually started adding some detail to the end plates. On some of the SSYMS rail cars they have a folding handrail with a handle that I believe allows them to control the braking from that position on the car.
With the kit as a guide I started designing the handrail and control. Of course I also had to design the attachments, The top of the handrail has two semi-circular bends that allow the top to conform around the buffers when folded down so that it is low enough to not get crushed by the 60 ton tank as it drives over it.

The Polymax filament was purchased originally in order to print this handrail and associated parts which are fairly thin with enough strength to not break easily when handled.


Updated Endplate Handrail mountings and Brake control

Closer Handrail halved view with holes to match uprights



I'll post some pictures of the printed parts as soon as I get around to shooting them.
That's it for now.

Last edited by Shark27; 03-01-2020 at 01:09 PM.
Old 03-02-2020, 09:21 PM
  #38  
Hemtt TFFT
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Hello

Look here for insperiation.
https://www.fertigungswerk16.at/shop/

There are the Strabokran and some other Trainparts

Greetings Olaf
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Tig Marsal (03-05-2020)
Old 03-04-2020, 03:38 PM
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Olaf,
Thanks for the link to that site, it looks like they are doing high quality work using an SLA type printer. I will say that after looking over some of the parts in detail, my FDM printer does as good a job or better on some parts as their SLA printer. May have more to do with the design of the parts or layer height they are using for those parts.
I wish I had the time and resources to design, build and print some of their projects. The trick is probably finding high quality drawings with dimensions on them.

I probably will do the V2 at some point and the transport trailer and maybe the launch platform. There are already several V2 models out there I would probably just remix one and add some details.
Steve
Old 03-05-2020, 02:04 AM
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Here are some more of the parts I produced for this project in a little more detail.

I think I prefer the 3 spoke wheel, apparently they used both types.

These are the Handrail mounting parts

This part goes between the lower and upper bed framework and supports the bed over the bogie pivot point.


These are the bed sides sectioned to fit the print bed they each have alignment holes to allow piano wire to be inserted to join the part and give the joint strength.

These wooden parts were in the 1/35th scale kit, so I replicated them in 1/16th scale and they will be printed in Hatchbox wood filament.
Pictures to follow.
That's all for now.
Steve
Old 03-07-2020, 06:02 PM
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Here are some of the 3D parts I have printed so far.

SSYMS Complete Framework with Bed Side plates and end plates

With Bogie in place

Upper & Lower Framework with Inner Support below

Upper framework with Inner Support in place

Buffer End Plate with Handrail supports and mounts

Brake control Handrail and end plate mount

Prototypical coupler hooks and adjustment

Closeup of Coupler with M3 threaded rod for adjustment

Reprinted coupler parts using stronger Polymax Filament

End plate hooks for tie down cables

Bogie side plate with leaf springs and Interconnect parts

Bogie Axle Boxes with 00-90 hex bolts for assembly

Sectioned Bed sides with Piano wire for alignment and joint strength
Once all the parts have been cleaned up assembly will begin with the Bogies .
That's all for now.

Last edited by Shark27; 03-07-2020 at 06:05 PM.
Old 03-15-2020, 07:08 PM
  #42  
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I am kind of surprised over 3,500 views and not many comments.

Anyway after perusing the parts of the 1/35th scale Sabre SSYMS kit I had purchased for this build and some deliberation, I decided to redo the few parts I had downloaded that I hadn't already redone. Because of this it became necessary to modify some of the parts I had created from scratch.

For example, I was never really happy with the Bogie Axles they were just 12 mm posts, I had modified them originally to take a sealed bearing on both ends of the shaft.

After looking at the axle in the kit, it was anything but a straight shaft, it is contoured from narrow in the center to wider at the ends just before where the wheel is located, then it narrows down for the wheel and the ends are narrower still to go into the axle boxes in the bogie side plates.
A picture is worth a thousand words.

New contoured axles, split version with holes and new wheel with smaller hole.

I created the axle to match the kit design, but adjusted it to match the bearings I had already used, I also split the axle in half to print easier, I added a center hole to screw the two pieces together with threaded rod. The axle is not load bearing except at the ends where the sealed bearing is located, we'll see how it holds up. Printing it vertically requires no post processing of the part except joining the two halves. Consequently I modified the wheels I had created with a smaller center hole to match the new axles.

Incidentally, because of all the additional parts I have created, there will be two of the SSYMS 80 ton rail cars built, one with the original parts pictured in the beginning of this post and one using all the new parts I have created and printed using the Polymax filament.

The SSYMS using the older parts printed in standard PLA will get some of the detail parts I created added to it. Ultimately that SSYMS 80 ton car will get donated to either the AAF Tank museum in Danville Virginia or to the Bay Area Blitzkrieg tank club I belong to here in Largo Florida.

Here are some of the new parts I have modified or created, I have test printed them but I still have to print the quantities required (read Bogie wheels and axles)

Some of the parts I modified because of the details the Sabre kit provided me. I found out that the fish plates used were actually contoured to match the recess in the rail profile, I had originally thought they were just flat plates.


New Contoured Fish plates.

New Axle Box bottom end plates angles cut.

The Axle box bottom end plates were cut at an angle on the prototype, so I modified these as well.

Others parts were modified because of the changes I made to other parts. Some changes I tried were rolled back due to the complexity of the parts and the necessary changes to be able to 3D print the parts.

One example was the supports that go between the Bogie cross brace and the end plates.

Bogie support beams joined, top and bottom view.

The prototype has these as small "I" beams, I attempted to recreate these but due to their small size was unable to get them to work satisfactorily. As with all the 3D printed "I" beams they have to be created in two parts. There was not really enough material to be very strong when they are made to scale, (remember they are still only plastic). Consequently, I scrapped them and stuck with my original design of a beefier "U" channel beam. I did modify the "U" channel beams so the two beams are more like the kit part and joined at the end.

I'll post pictures of the printed parts as soon as I get them all printed.
Steve
Old 03-20-2020, 12:11 AM
  #43  
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After looking over the Bill of Materials I have compiled for this build, there may not be anyone else crazy enough to print this project or worse have it printed.

At last count I had about 354 parts in total including the Rail Road track to display it on. That doesn't include the the plates for mounting the track to the RR Ties/Sleepers, which I have yet to design and print.

Of course many of the parts are small and many can be printed together at one time which is good because you need multiples of many of them anyway.

The largest pieces, the main framework and the sides of the Rail Car are each split into three or more sections to allow easier printing.

I will look into reducing the number of parts if possible, but it mostly has to do with the printing aspects of the parts. I find it much better to make the part easier to print and assemble them, than to print parts that are complex that require supports that have to be removed after the fact.

Filing and sanding the parts is the least fun part of 3D printing so I try to keep it to a minimum if possible.

I finally am finishing printing the last wheels and axles, I am finding some parts have to be printed at .10 or .15 layer height, otherwise because of their shape (contour) the layers are more exposed and they turn out looking terrible.

Anyway almost all of the original parts that did not redesign have been reprinted with the stronger PolyMax PLA filament.
That stuff is great very strong.
I am hedging my bets on one point, that is I am making accommodations for reinforcing the framework sections where they join together and elsewhere.

Until I glue them together I don't really know how much of a load they can handle, so my modifications will allow me to bolt in steel plates to strengthen the joints and beams.

Martin, (Ex_Pat_Tanker) had suggested this with the original bed I was going to use, which I had 4mm threaded steel rod to attached the sections together. That bed was much beefier, the new redesigned bed is more scale, hence more lightweight and not as strong as far as I can tell at this point. We'll see how it goes.

Now I just have to verify my parts inventory to make sure I have enough of the parts I need to assemble it together. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
That is it for now.
Steve
Old 04-29-2020, 05:24 PM
  #44  
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Well more than a month has passed since I last posted anything here and what a month it has been!Well I have been back at it on the SSYMS, the lock down hasn’t changed my situation much, as I have been working from home for a couple of years now.

In fact we got a flurry of orders for the streaming systems we sell, since many have to stream to their clients, students and congregations. I’ve been busy building systems, so no additional free time, but some additional funds for the cause.

Anyway back to the SSYMS, I decided to recreate a more prototypical track mounting plate as the original one I downloaded with the track were a bit oversized and looked kind of chunky. So I redesigned the track mounting plates to resemble some I had seen in some photos. So I designed them to match the track I had already printed.

After looking at the RR tracks I had printed they looked a bit large for 1/16th scale, So I resized them as close to scale as I could get away with, my main consideration was that I needed to have them big enough to have the mounting plates large enough to print.

I found that the track plates were difficult to print at exact 1/16th scale. BTW In researching I found there are about as many sizes and profiles of Railroad track as there are countries on earth, finding the proper profile and size they used back in Germany in the 30's and 40's was no easy task. The track varied depending on where it was located, between large cities with a lot of traffic it was a more heavy duty track than elsewhere.

I am sure model railroading guys are rolling their eyes as this information is probably obvious to them.
Consequently I stuck with the profile I was already using and just scaled it as close as I could to 1/16th and what would allow the mounting plates to be printed properly. I think I got it pretty close.

The pictures shows the original size on the left and the new smaller one on the right I reduced the track by about 3mm in height and 3mm in width from the larger size. The picture of the printed parts shows them in reverse with the resized track on the left and the original on the right. I also designed some printable railroad Ties with a wood grain texture on the top surface as well.



Track Comparison printed



Railroad Ties with mounting plates


Since I was working with the new track I decided to engineer a Railroad Buffer End Stop, you have probably seen these almost every siding has one of these or at least something similar.

After looking at some pictures on line I designed mine to resemble some of them. Mine is engineered so that it is almost entirely built using short track pieces cut to fit together.

It seemed that this would be common practice back in the day, as it would be an inexpensive expedient to getting one which had been manufactured .


End Stop Buffer 3/4 view

End Stop Buffer front view

End Stop Buffer rear view

End Stop Buffer side view

End Stop Buffer top view



I recently printed out the wooden parts I had created, the ladder the crates and the chocks. I also had to create hinges for the crate lid which are quite small. I was able to print them, we'll see if I can make them functional at the miniscule size I had to print them at, I hedged my bets and printed some static versions to use if the crates need to remain closed.

I am not exactly sure what the crates were used for maybe storing tarps (Zeltbahns) and ropes to be used to cover the tanks once loaded. Surprisingly the eight wheel (track) chocks fit inside the crates
perfectly, so those may have been stored in there as well.




I also did one in Gray



Anyway that is all for now.
I had to purchase a disc sander to finish the mating joints on the different parts, doing it manually would be way too time consuming, especially since I now have two of them to assemble and finish. Once the sander arrives I can get to work on the parts and doing some assembly.
Steve



Old 05-02-2020, 03:37 AM
  #45  
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That is some very impressive work there.
Old 05-02-2020, 11:44 AM
  #46  
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Panther F,
Thanks, I am glad you like it, it has been sort of learn as I go situation, sometimes it makes my brain hurt!
I can't wait to start assembling everything, I haven't decided whether to document the assembly with video or still images.

When I get the SSYMS cars done I plan on donating one to the AAF museum battlefield if they want it. Hopefully I can deliver it in person once things get back to normal.
They have a nice G-Scale layout around the battlefield and an armed armored train car (self powered) they might be able to pull it with.
They did have a flatbed rail car at some of the meets, I think Willy Loewer of customrcmodels provided it as well as a real nice engine to pull it.

Steve

Last edited by Shark27; 05-02-2020 at 11:48 AM.
Old 05-03-2020, 01:59 AM
  #47  
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I think they would welcome that! (If not, I'll display it!) Getting back to the battlefield one more time myself is MY goal, this time being totally prepared. I have this feeling the virus isn't done with us yet.

Also, this may have been asked before but is this going to be something anyone could order/purchase... you know the general public.
Old 05-03-2020, 05:32 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Panther F View Post
I think they would welcome that! (If not, I'll display it!) Getting back to the battlefield one more time myself is MY goal, this time being totally prepared. I have this feeling the virus isn't done with us yet.

Also, this may have been asked before but is this going to be something anyone could order/purchase... you know the general public.
Panther F,
I haven't decided on how I would offer it to others, I would probably offer it as a semi-completed kit, where it would just require joining the main bed sections and assembling the bogies and adding details.

The reason is there is a lot of post processing required (Read filing and sanding) before things can be assembled.
Some of that is due to my inexperience in designing parts to fit together properly. I have been learning as I go how to compensate for material shrinkage, but not always successfully.

On some pieces I wanted an interference fit, the best way to achieve it was to sand or file the two parts to fit, not the best way but short of printing three or four iterations of a part, the only way to get those tolerances.
Many who might want it are not modelers so unable or unwilling to spend the time involved to get the parts ready to assemble.
For example almost all the holes designed into the model are undersized, I did this so that they could be drilled out for whatever fastener I had on hand or could get easily.
In some cases I plan to just use piano wire to attach parts together. If you are not a modeler with the proper tools cutting piano wire can be a real PITA!

I would hate to sell one to someone and find out later that they gave up on it because there was too much work fitting all the parts together, compared to their expectations of what they thought the assembly would be like.

Sorry for the long drawn out answer but I just wanted people to know what they were up against if they want one it will require some work, so my suggestion non-modellers need not apply.
I'll keep the thread updated on to what I decide, I may offer just the STLs at some point, heck other than test fitting I haven't even assembled mine yet, still waiting on the disc sander to arrive.
Steve
Old 05-28-2020, 08:37 AM
  #49  
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Martin,
Thanks!
I have a Creality CR-10S printer

I have modified the chassis with holes that I will install 2mm and 1mm steel rods that perform two functions alignment of the parts and reinforcement of the joints.
I also have two 4mm stainless steel threaded rods with metal reinforcement plates where they pass through and sandwich the multiple plastic beams with nuts on either side.
Additionally I will JB Weld (Steel Epoxy) the component pieces together. I think it should hold. If not I will reprint the Chassis in something else either PETG or ASA or as a last choice ABS.

Steve
I had this one. It's good. But after 2 years of intense usage, it broke. Now I'm looking for new one. Maybe I will buy the same one, maybe not. One of my friends told me that he'd bought a cool 3D printer in Paris. It's called matériaux impression 3D and you can do some amazing stuff with it. At least, I think so. This friend of mine shown me some tank models he did with this 3D printer, and I was impressed. BTW, maybe you've heard something about these? I've read about it on one forum related to 3D printing, and they say that it's good. I have my friend's results of using this and I have some other evidence that it's good.
Old 05-28-2020, 08:45 AM
  #50  
Ex_Pat_Tanker
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Peterborough, UNITED KINGDOM
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What broke exactly? I've not yet found anything that couldn't be easily replaced with another part.

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