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P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Old 01-10-2006, 09:06 AM
  #376  
splais
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

I have looked all over trying to find out if the number of stripes on the top wing had any significance. Nothing so far. The GP Hawk's two stripes are patterned after the Hawk in the AF museum I believe.
Old 01-10-2006, 10:46 AM
  #377  
hookemut
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Hi,
WRT the stripes on the upper wing-these are called 'Command Stripes' in Volume 2 of 'Aircraft in Profile', in the Curtiss Army Hawk section, also known as Volume No. 45 of 'Profile Publications'. The attached pic is of No. 40.
FYI, also note that Hawks only had ailerons on their upper wing. There are two vertical rods extending from the lower to the upper wing. Also, directly in line with these rods there are small bulges/housings on the botton of the lower wing. These are bellcrank housings. Just how the stick forces for roll (aileron) control were transmitted to the ailerons is not identified in any literature which I have. Perhaps Wiley-E might comment?
Wiley-E, nice drafting job, you really did a good layout of the engine/cowling! I look with great interest to any engine run progress!
Jim
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Old 01-10-2006, 03:43 PM
  #378  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Build (continued)

Pic 69:
I just noticed that the firewall aready has a 3-5 degree offset for the engine (view from bottom).
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Old 01-10-2006, 03:52 PM
  #379  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

The wing stripes are squadron markings. They signified who was the squadron leader, group leader, etc. Two stripes is correct, but not for #40 which had three. I can't find the reference now but I'll look through my materials and see if I can find the details. I have the April 1976 Wings magazine which has an excellent schematic and it has letting details down to the aircraft ID markings (serial #). BTW, for all you guys wondering about the prop, it's a Hamilton STd, Serial # 32K-363, dwg -0159001-12, blade is 42 in , pitch is 17.5degrees. Has Hamilton standard markings.

Steve


ORIGINAL: Ramon081850

Anyone notice the top wing stripes?
It looks like that only the one in the center front has 3 stripes, while the middle 3 have 1 stripe and that MAYBE the center plane in the last row MAY have had two stripes.

Could this be where GP got the '2 stripe' marking for the top wing?

ORIGINAL: aircowboy

I was looking at the squadron photo(post#342 on page 14) and didnt notice until I looked again. Did Anyone notice how close they are to each other? That is impressive! Even th best aerobatic pilots in the world are lucky to get that close. I wonder if their wings ever touched?
Those guys were among the cream of the crop at that time. Probably some of the best pilots in the world -- at that time.
Old 01-10-2006, 04:46 PM
  #380  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

I found the quote on the command stripes. Page 2 of the "Curtiss Army Hawks in Action".

"The Command stripes painted on the upper wing indicated the pilot's position withing the group- three stripes for the group commander, two for the squadron commander and one stripe indicated a flight or element leader."

If yo look at a bigger version of the pic posted above wtih the planes in formation, tail number 40 is the group commander plane in the middle of the front row, thus it has the three stripes.

Steve
Old 01-10-2006, 04:48 PM
  #381  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Ramon....created it! I've been trying to get this Avatar since I've been on RCU, so I had to use Snag-it and Paint to make it.

Steve

ORIGINAL: Ramon081850

sseward,

Nice P-6E under your name.
Where did you get/find it?
Old 01-10-2006, 06:21 PM
  #382  
splais
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

So now we all have to peel off and re-do the stripes I may also have to mount the servos in the bottom wing and run rods up to the ailerons We are a bunch of Hawk sick-os aren't we [sm=lol.gif]

Nope, I must correct myself. Great Planes was correct with two stripes. they have copied the Hawk #40 when it was flown by Capt Ross Hoyt when he was a squadron commander (2 stripper).
Old 01-10-2006, 07:03 PM
  #383  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Splais....there ya go! Actually, I had cut a third set of stripes to go between the two. They said the red was Dark red, and I happend to have dark red monocote. I don't think it's dark red because the stuff I have is darker! I think they used true red.

Anyway, you could nitpick the scale accuracy to death, I've just decided it's the best out there so far unless you want to build one yourself. Still wish they'd offer this as a kit!

Steve
Old 01-10-2006, 07:04 PM
  #384  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)


ORIGINAL: hookemut


FYI, also note that Hawks only had ailerons on their upper wing. There are two vertical rods extending from the lower to the upper wing. Also, directly in line with these rods there are small bulges/housings on the botton of the lower wing. These are bellcrank housings. Just how the stick forces for roll (aileron) control were transmitted to the ailerons is not identified in any literature which I have. Perhaps Wiley-E might comment?
Jim
Pushrods from the stick assembly to 90 degree belcranks in the wing to vertical pushrods to the aileron horn. Just like the old days of RC when we used a single servo , in this case the pilot, for aileron control. With no cables in the loop, I'll bet aileron control was crisp.

I downloaded a very detailed model of the full scale P-6E for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002. Crank up the subwoofer and setup a big fan behind the monitor and feel that 700 horsepower (and listen to the crackle of those short stacks) while taking off from Selfridge Air Base. Any more Michigoons (I'm formerly a Maineiac, so why not now a Michigoon?) building these? I'll bet a display at Selfridge open house this summer would be welcome.
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:24 PM
  #385  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

A bit cold today -58 but winds light & variable. A couple pics from flights 5 & 6.
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:57 AM
  #386  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Thanks for the responses to my posts!

hookemut - NICE picture! I saved it to my computer for future reference. Thanks!

As splais said, Great Planes was probably correct for the aircraft at some given point in time.
Besides, I kinda like their two stripe scheme anyway, even if it ain't 'xactly scale. It's a nice plane.[8D]

sseward - Thanks for the info on your avatar. Wish I was that skilled with the computer paint program. I guess I'll keep looking for some small pics of not only the P-6E, but the PT-17 as well - as they are my favorites.
BTW - I got out my roll of Dark Red Monokote and held it up to the red stripes on my top wing and mine matched, as far as I can tell. I thought from your post that it might be like the red on my GP PT-17. It was supposed to be true red, according to the manual, but in fact Missile Red Monokote was what matched - at least on mine. Maybe they use any shade of red if they run low on one. ????[sm=confused.gif]


speedpro 1 - I'm very interested in how your plane flew and responded to your Saito 125a because that is what I plan to use in mine. So here's a bunch of questions related to that - hope you don't mind.
Was the 125 marginal or plenty of power, as in big huge loops and crisp rolls? What prop are you using with the 125 for flying? Size, 3-Blade or 2-Blade? Also, what was your finished dry weight? Anything, in your opinion, worthy of note about this engine/plane combination?

The only negative thing I have found, so far, about the Saito 125, is the exhaust port thread size that Saito choose to use. [sm=tired.gif]Kelvin and Horizon Hobbies both told me it is a 13mm x 1mm thread. Try finding taps and dies and/or fittings to fit that! [sm=angry.gif]As the old saying goes - Lots of Luck! [sm=tired.gif]I guess Saito wanted to make it a propitiatory thing. And my wife nixed the $150 scale exhaust - so that's not an option. I haven't found ANYTHING (other than the supplied muffler) that will fit - yet! [sm=disappointed.gif]
Got to keep it in the cowl somehow - OR , because of this exhaust issue, this engine may go up for sale and be replaced with something else. Being hooked on scale can be bad at times.
Old 01-11-2006, 09:31 AM
  #387  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Anyone doing the belly tank? Might have to mock one up, adds to the beefy look of this fighter.
Old 01-11-2006, 10:46 AM
  #388  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

speedpro 1 - I'm very interested in how your plane flew and responded to your Saito 125a because that is what I plan to use in mine. So here's a bunch of questions related to that - hope you don't mind.
Was the 125 marginal or plenty of power, as in big huge loops and crisp rolls? What prop are you using with the 125 for flying? Size, 3-Blade or 2-Blade? Also, what was your finished dry weight? Anything, in your opinion, worthy of note about this engine/plane combination?
ramon i will give you a report on the saito 125 this afternoon going flying today. prevous couple of flights were pretty rich going to lean her out today. right now it has a apc 16-7 prop. have no scales for weight but i do have a sub-c cell 1800 mah receiver batt against the firewall on the inside. mpi glow driver and 8oz of weights in the box,2 sub-c 3300mah cells outside the box and a heavy hub up front
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Old 01-11-2006, 04:24 PM
  #389  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Manfred,
I'm working on a drawing for a simple version of the tank. I have a set of Richard Barron plans for a P-6e that show the tank in very fine detail (Dick Barron's plans are very accurate) and also some other drawings of the tank. I'm scaling up the Barron plans for the tank and will see if I can come up with something easy to build, yet accurate. It's really not a complex shape. I'll keep you posted!

Steve

ORIGINAL: MANFRED

Anyone doing the belly tank? Might have to mock one up, adds to the beefy look of this fighter.
Old 01-11-2006, 04:47 PM
  #390  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Build (continued)

Pic 70:
To get the muffler on the OS 1.20 4-stroke to exit the back of the cowl,
I purchased their 90 degree elbow (#72109200) and attached it to the cylinder head.
I then attached the original 45 degree elbow and muffler to the other end of the 90 degree elbow,
plus a piece of rubber tubing on the end of the muffler.
Some weird angles but it works!
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Old 01-12-2006, 12:24 PM
  #391  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

How does everyone feel about the wheels that are included in the kit? Are you using the supplied wheels or using better quality wheels? If using other than supplied wheels which ones are being used? or are the supplied wheels holding up? This is a great model but as always the wheels leave a lot too be desired as far as quality is concerned. I am going to use Dubro large scale wheels. This thread is full of a lot of great info about this model.
Thanks, Thercav8r.
Old 01-12-2006, 12:59 PM
  #392  
samparfitt
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

The wheels are foam but the plane is so light, I'm assuming they will hold up.
If not, I'll replace them.
Don't have to worry about them not looking scale since only part of the tire shows.
Old 01-12-2006, 02:48 PM
  #393  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)


ORIGINAL: Wile E

Looks like I'm right on time with my tailwheel mods!
Here's the final install of my "scale" tailwheel. Not a bad color match for 10 year old Monokote! Will show bellcrank setup when installed.
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Old 01-12-2006, 05:13 PM
  #394  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

That looks good ! Wanna do mine?
Old 01-12-2006, 06:36 PM
  #395  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Nice work on the tailwheel, Wile E. Looks terrific.
Old 01-12-2006, 11:05 PM
  #396  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

The tail wheel mod definatley looks better than the stocker... If there is anything that could be improved on the main wheels,it would have to be the size...
I noticed the models are alot smaller than it should be to scale upto the real P-6E's wheels/Tires....

I fly mostly off of grass,so I might try the large Trexlers if they'll messure up... I know they are alot more fragile than solid tires,but they look so much cooler,and they add a little shock action to the gear aswell...
Old 01-13-2006, 03:36 AM
  #397  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

A friend tried Trexlers on a 1/4 scale Cub (Span Aero ) and they worked o.k. if you greased every landing, but if you hit a little hard, they'd blow out...

What do ya all think about a Saito 1.80 to power one of these? My same old friend w/ the above Cub keeps eyeing this airplane every time we walk into the lhs and he's got a 1.80 sitting on the shelf.
Old 01-13-2006, 08:38 AM
  #398  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Trexlers will not hold up for long and a blowout virtually guarantees torn up wheel pants and a nose over resulting in a damaged cowl. That said, it'd be fun to watch so please videotape it. I've learned that sometimes the best service we can provide is to serve as a warning to others
Old 01-13-2006, 10:06 AM
  #399  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

I am using a Saito 180 GK in Mine. Havent finished it yet and I am sure it may be over powered but I want to swing a big 3 bladed prop. Since the extra nose weight is needed I am going to have useful weight up there. I am using the tail wheel mod shown above by Wile E. ( ITs Great) and replacing the main wheels with 4 inch Dubro big wheels.
Old 01-13-2006, 10:21 AM
  #400  
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Default RE: P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

The 180 is also the only engine I had available. It's the same size as the 120 (Saito) and will probably require thoughtful use of the throttle.
Here are a couiple of pics of the installation.
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