RCPILOT78

DAVE ...... your right about the Zenoah engines they are great....as far as the elevator control rod is concerned your also right I had to modify the system at the elevator connections its going to be difficult to explain , I would need to send you a picture but I can't get in the fuse to photograph..all I can say is their system is too flimsey..I had to use plywood gussets epoxied to the wire ( Y ) bends to strengthen them... and also used heavier threaded wire back there... I used their system but beefed it up GOOD LUCK with your build I have been flying my at-6 for over a year now almost 180 flights on her and still enjoying it...

RCPILOT78

GUAIO....... What I use for vibration dampening mounts can be found at ACE hardware...they are 1/4 -20 rubber bushings with a brass threaded insert ,,they work great, their about a 1/2 inch in diameter and are ready for a 1/4-20 bolt...on most firewalls the wood is thick enough that the bushing does not protrude out the back but on the t6 the fire wall is thinner so I use rubber o-rings the kind used in outdoor hoses also purchased at ACE...to shimm the excess lenght of the bushing and end with a large metal washer and bolt...I always bolt the engine on with the nuts on the inside of the firewall...but you can reverse this and have the threads and nuts on the outside....those bushings make a nice clean mount with vibrtation dampning and a solid engine mount.


I don't think their is a cockpit kit for this pland mine is just scratch built...

mystar46

I threw every bit of hardware that came with the kit in the trash and had made my own elevator setup. I had a brass control arm soldered to a steel joiner for the elevator halves and the solder joint broke loose just from the vibration I guess. I tested its strength before putting it in the plane and it seemed real good. It was all internal in the fuse like the one in the beginning of this thread.
I have a 4-40 rod and ball joint on the pushrod, so I'll just go through the fuse on one side. Since I put the steel joiner in there I only need to connect to a horn on one side. Should be a relatively straight shot and very strong. My Sig 1/4 scale Cub is setup the same way and I have hundreds of flights on it. Like I said I'm glad I found this now rather than in the air when it's too late.
I only need to setup the retract valve and servo, mount the air tank and balance and I will be ready for maiden this weekend if the wind ever calms down. At this point it seems like I will still need to add nose weight even with the G26 up front.

ScaleRCpilot

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mystar46,

Sounds just like my G23! That motor will haul it around just fine from what I'v seen!

Your not using rubber mounts from what I can see- don't think you need them if you balance your prop. Plane looks like it was designed around the G26.
Thanks!
SR/CP

mystar46

G26 is a potent little motor!
I wish it sounded a little more like a 4-stroker and less like a chainsaw but what can you do.
It will be nice at $4.50 a gallon instead if $15.50 a gallon and no slime to clean up after each flight except for residue from smoke system.
Bolted right to firewall seems good and my balanced prop was nice and smooth.

Thunderbolt47

My Feedback: (8)

Hey Dave, I'll be at Warbirds over Delaware too. I had a blast last year with my "Bald Eagle" Mustang. It survived all year to make another trip this year. She is down at the moment. (don't want any last minute mishaps.)

Looking forward to seeing your Texan. I haven't ordered one yet, I have way to many projects going on now. My Wife would beat me badly, if I bought another plane right now. But maybe it wouldn't hurt to much. I will heal up and it is a cool plane (After seeing one I'll might take my chances)

Anyways, look me up and introduce yourself. I be flying this.
Kelly

mystar46

Hi Kelly

That's a nice Mustang! Is that the one that Jim Beasley flies? Our club recently took an exclusive tour of his hangar at Chester County Airport. Very impressive to say the least.

Anyway, my maiden flight did not go well yesterday. I snapped into the high grass on takeoff. I believe the plane was too heavy. I tried to do too many things and overloaded it. Flaps, lights, retracts, and a smoke system. I have another airframe and my engine, radio, and retracts all came out fine. Unfortunately I don't think I can have it ready for Warbirds now. Sorry to let everyone down. I'll still be there with my friend John flying a Dynaflite PT-19 with an OS 1.60 twin 4 stroke in it. I'll try to find you out there!

Next T-6 will not have smoke or flaps. Should come out much lighter.

RCPILOT78

MYSTAR..too bad about the maiden.....my at-6 weighs in at 17 lbs.. and is a floater without flaps....a word of caution about the at-6 wing , even the full scale wants air speed before liftoff...the 3rd flight on mine I almost did the same as yours but was luckier I was able to save it....from then on I always get her up to speed and she practically lifts off on her own....now have over 100+ flights...you might forget about the smoke but I recommend the flaps..

Thunderbolt47

My Feedback: (8)

Dave, sorry to here about the maiden. Hopefully some one else will have one there I can look at.

My Mustang was modeled after Jims plane. He came to Wilmington NC several years ago and I thought the scheme was cool. I did change it a little. Biggest change was the inviation strips on the top of the wing. If you can get a copy of SKS WOD 2007 video , I flew a flight for them.
G-62 130mph. 25lbs

Back to the T-6.

What did yours weigh? An AT-6 almost needs smoke just like any Bi-plane. they just go together. Burn some midnite oil and get it done!

Later,
Kelly

mystar46

I'm going to weigh what's left of it and see what it came out to.
It landed on one wing tip so the front and rear wing mounts twisted the fuselage and shucked it like a crab.
Basically one outboard wing panel on the wing is toast and the firewall ripped out. (no surprise after seeing how little was holding it in to begin with)

I guess all I can do is learn from my mistakes and try again. I will be weighing and balancing after every step this time.
I'm pretty sure it weighed more than yours does RCPILOT78.

If I get a good flying plane this time I can always go back and add things later.
I agree with your comment about the smoke, Kelly! Check out Jim's hangar pictures at http://www.chestercountyrc.com/modul...lbum=55&page=2 .

ScaleRCpilot

My Feedback: (1)

Dave,
Sorry to read about your bad crash. It happens and it sucks! I know how you feel!
I lost a real nice Royal pt-17 Stearman on its first flight - dove straight in from the sky! Demolished! But look at it this way - at least you did not spend 8 months building it! Order up another and try again!

Good luck!
Doug SR/CP

mystar46

Thanks

Yeah I already have another of the same. Started on it tonight. I'm not one to give up so easily, especially when I hear about how well yours all fly. I'll get it right this time for sure! Radio, engine and retracts (all the expensive stuff) came through unscathed.

Mine weighed in at about 18.5 lbs dry. I hate to think I had any preconceived notions about how it would fly, but it just felt so damn heavy when I carried it to the flight line.

RCPILOT78

mystar46....scalercpilot is right order up another and try again...the price is right for an 80 inch warbird arf....I really can't see where your bird could have come out heavier than mine I use the Robart retracts they are heavier than than the Eurokit and seirra retracts ..I also have flaps..the only thing you added was smoke can't believe that the smoke gear would make it that heavy...I had the bird out today and flew the paint off of it.. takeoffs and landings are so easy I can't believe yours did what it did...oh and yes the firewall does need some epoxy reninforcing...but that is true of all arfs....

ScaleRCpilot

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RCPILOT78,

On take off does your t-6 require much r-rudder?

mystar46...... Did it snap to left or right? Could it have been over control to the right off setting the left (p-factor) of the engine torque? Its very possible both contributed to the crash - low air speed and p-factor w/ over control being the first flight. Happens to the best on first flights!
Doug - SR/CP

mystar46

I wanted to keep it flat and straight to build up speed before liftoff, but about 1/3 down the runway when it got light it started hooking hard left. I was going too fast already to stop it and gradual application of right rudder didn't seem to do anything. As a last desperate attempt I tried to make it over the high grass on the edge of the runway and that made things much worse but it was too late by then. I checked the CG about 20 times and it was good.
It's funny because I'm the guy who usually test flies everyone else's planes and I have a very high success rate even with difficult to fly planes or ones that experience some kind of early failure.

RCPILOT78

SCALERCPILOT..on takeoff I start my roll with low throttle slowly advance to no more than half throttle...with the g26 at full throttle my at-6 will also require a lot of right rudder and than the everpopular torque turn to the left and a white knuckle takeoff....before you go to full throttle the plane must have suffecient forward speed so the rudder becomes effective. that means driving down the runway as far as possible. my sequence is .......low throttle to start a straight roll.... than advance to half throttle pick up speed rudder starts to become effective......slight right rudder to track straight........ than three quarter throttle tracking straight......than full throttle for liftoff.....works everytime...

mystar46

I'll try that method next time. Anything will be better than what I did this time. I was full throttle right from the beginning.

I think another contributing factor was that I had moved the tailwheel up to the scale location. I noticed when I turned 180 on the ground, it kinda whipped around a little. The plane has a proportionally short fuselage anyway and I made it even more sensitive.

RCPILOT78

DAVE...My method of takeoff is practiced by all the top-gun participants down here in Florida....my club has several top-gun qualifiers and after watching their takeoffs I developed the same method....tail wheel loction may be a factor but I doubt it you just use a little less right rudder if it is sensative... what really matters is getting the rudder up and running as soon as possible without left torque...

ScaleRCpilot

My Feedback: (1)

RCPILOT78,

That is the same sequience that I use too. I read an article in MAN about take-offs and the aurthor recomended full throttle take offs from the start of roll. But I beg to differ on that.

p-factor can take over!

Thanks! - Doug

ScaleRCpilot

My Feedback: (1)

mystar46,
I agree with RCPILOT78 on the tail wheel location. What size prop and pitch were you using just for the record? Wood or Composite (Glass filled)?

I have not looked at the instructions in a while does it recomend right offset for the motor?
That might help a little.
Well you will be back soon!
Thanks! Doug

mystar46

It's interesting you mention the prop. Horizon Hobby says to use a 16x8 for break in. The Zenoah manual says there is no break in and 16x10 is the lowest pitch 16 to use. They say you can use an 18x7 - 18x10. I was using the 16x8 Master Airscrew (GRP) and if I remember right I was getting around 8700 rpm on the top end.

The instructions show motor offset but I think the best you could do with the mount on the G26 is shim it with washers or something.

I started mounting the engine on my new airframe last night.

AlphaWhisky

Hi Guys,

I`ve been watching this thread for a while. First up - Dave- my condolences on your bad start. I feel for you as my own first test flight was not successful. I got to takeoff OK, turned downwind and discovered I needed a little aileron trim. On applying that, my new 2.4GHz Futaba started screaming at me and then went on strike. It all came down in the long grass. Damage was confined to the Eurokit u/c legs and grazed paint on the cowling when it over turned.

The radio was sent back to Tower and has since been returned. I tried it in two other models before another test with the AT-6 just yesterday. I had two good flights both followed by very ordinary landings during which the u/c legs again skewed and tipped the whole lot over - again no significant damage. Those Eurokit retracts worry me. Parts of them seem to be glued together which doesn`t impress me. I`ll have to do some work on them before next flights.

Mine is powered with an older G-26 - non e.i. I started with a Master 16 x 8 but it seemed to rev too high so I changed to a Master 18 x8 which I cut down to 17 inches and am quite happy with that. I have applied a little right thrust - set purely by eyeometer. That`s OK too

I use the progressive throttle method for takeoff which is straight and easy with this model. I have no flaps on this 16 lb model and was ready for the long floating approach as reported here in recent times. Landings would have been OK if the u/c legs had not skewed on arrival - I`ll just have to sort them out properly. I`ve used loctite on those tiny grubscrews but that is not working for me....

All in all, I`m happy with the way it flew on those first two flights - happy enough to have tried loops, rolls, half cuban eight turns etc - all slow and easy with no dramas.

Good luck with your new one

Alan W

RCPILOT78

AlphaWhisky....I finally had to throw those EuroKit retracts away they gave me nothing but trouble...after every flight I had to repair them.....I replaced them with the Robart at-6 gear and what a difference.... they don't have that steep forward rake that the EuroKit has which is like a reversed trailing caster....the Robart"s are installed like the full scale are they have a very slight forward rake and they are strong.. and when retracted fit right in the wing wheel wells with no problem.. the Robarts are the ( 612 ).

AlphaWhisky

I guess you may be right re the reverse castor angle thing ...? However, I'll intend to persevere with them for a bit longer yet. Maybe call in the JB Weld as a last resort..... How are others handling these Eurokit units?

A switch to Robarts is not a simple solution here for a variety of reasons. (I've never ever had a reply from them to several direct email enquiries to them over the years).

A change of tack now. I bought this CMP AT-6 ARF on the spur of the moment while in Australia a while back despite having a NIB MIdwest kit for one gathering dust here. Has anyone built and operated both of these similar looking models? How do they compare in performance ? I have only ever seen one finished Midwest example and that was several years ago. That one was powered with an ST2500 and went well.... It was fitted with the Robart retracts.

Alan W

RCPILOT78

AlphaWhisky...JB weld will work for a while but after you apply that getting them apart to replace the steel angled stud will be difficult...what happens is if you should make a hard landing that stud will bend and will break off......... now you can't get the broken parts out because of the JB weld....as far as getting the gear order them from Tower Hobbies thats where I got mine they have them in stock...........installing them in the wing does take some work but ....... ( we ) ...... are model airplane builders and we can work wonders kit bashing....it took me about three hours opening up the wing area and making new hardwood ribs and mounts from aircraft ply.........other than the mounts they fit very well in the wheel wells.........you will be surpuised..good luck............I am about ready to mix another gallon of gas for my bird would you believe I have put 10 gallons of gas through this G45 in the past year........only saw one Midwest at-6 fly at our field it flew OK.........but again you will need the Robart gear for that plane also the builder said that it was a bit heavy his was 22lbs and the last I hear it is no longer....