butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Charlie, thanks for the kind words. I would love to go to Toledo to see your Avenger and speak with you in person, but there's no way I can afford the time away from work. Maybe someday. Best of luck with the Avenger. We'll all be pulling for you!

Chic, looks like you're doing some excellent work on your Avenger. The wheel looks to fit perfectly, and the wing joint looks spot-on, too. Nice job. Keep it up!

I got my motor yesterday, so I'll get some pictures of the layout this Saturday. It's going to be impressive! In the meantime, I have a lot of thinking to do about ignition/fuel tank/throttle and choke servo placement. I also have to give VERY careful consideration to the engine baffling. I will do whatever it takes to keep this motor cool and happy...

Are you about ready to sheet the bottom, Chic?

Keep the photos coming.

Be in touch soon.

Noah

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

OK, could not resist... here's a preview:

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Another update:

I have been working on the Avenger on and off for the past 2 weeks, and most of that time was spent considering the installation of the engine. Because the Moki 150 has a rear carburetor, and because the cylinder bank is very hard or often impossible to work around, I decided to mount the motor to a false firewall.

The false firewall (which I call F-0) will be bolted to F-1 (1/4-20 and blind nuts). The bolts will be numberous and each will be placed such that I can get a T-handled allen wrench on them easliy front the front, between and around the cylinders.

Anyway, the original F-1 was discarded and I made a new F-1 because the motor depth required that I shift the position of F-1 back about 12mm on the crutch. Shifting the original F-1 rearwards moved it out of the isometric taper built into the top half of the fuse front, so the new F-1 had to be oversized a bit so that the taper from F-4 to F-1 would remain intact. Not sure if that was clear. It’s hard to explain because I’m probably not using the right words.

The other thing I did was to cut a new F-3. My plan is to tie together F-1 through F-4 with hardwood dowls to help distribute the forces (torque and weight) of the radial engine. The original F-3 was, in my opinion, too thin for this particular motor installation. For those keeping score, there is no F-2. Not sure why that number was omitted from the plans and drawings.

Back to F-0… Attached to the front of F-0 is the engine, and attached to the back of F-0 is the throttle servo, choke servo and the ignition module. Again, because there is no room to work around this motor, all of these units needed to be mounted to the back of F-0. In this way, all connections to the engine (except fuel) are already in place which obviates the need to gain access to the rear of the motor through the bombay doors or through a hatch cut in the side of the fuse front. In theory this will make the engine that much easier to install, remove and service.

The other thing that I did was to position F-1 so that it has 1.5 degrees of down and 1.5 degrees of right thrust. The original plans had the thrust built into a motor box, but it was too complicated to introduce these angles with shims between F-0 and F-1. So, to make it simple I just glued F-1 to the crutch with the appropriate down and right thrust built in. Last picture shows the down thrust when the fuse is viewed from the side. All of this F-1 modification has changed the layout of the bombay. The new bombay will be at least 2-3 cm shorter, as a consequence of shifting F-1 back on the crutch. Because I also angled F-1 (1.5 degrees down and right thrust) I need install a new bulkhead behind F-1. I may also be out of luck when it comes to fitting Charlie's fiberglass torpedo in the new, shorter bombay. Anyway, all that can be worked out when I get the plane inverted on the building table.

Lastly, I had to determine where to bolt the engine to F-0. Because there is 1.5 down and 1.5 degrees of right thrust, and I wanted the prop hub to exit the center of the cowl, I had to use a little bit of trigonometry to determine how off-set the engine thrust line should be with regard to the center of the firewall. Pictures appear below. I just marked where the engine would be mounted if there was 0 degrees thrust, then used the math to determine where the mounting needed to be given 1.5 of down and right. Easy.

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

When that was all figured out, the motor and F-0 was set aside and then I moved on to the tail wheel.

The tail unit was bolted to some hardwood, and the hardwood was then installed into F-14. In order to get the wheel to fully retract (or at least come very close to making it all the way into the fuse when retracted), I had to mount the tail wheel to F-14 at a bit of an angle. F-14 was basically notched and the hardwood and some additional plywood was glued together with methacrylate.

I posted a question in the general forum regarding steering the Sierra tail wheel units. This one is especially tricky, I think. I'm not really seeing a clear and obvious method for actuating the steering. I was planning to use cable and guides, but there’s such a large “drop� (down out of the fuse) down to the steering yoke that I’m not sure how or where I am going to place the cable guides.

If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know (ASAP as I have to sort all that out before I start sheeting the fuse).

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Once the F-14/tailwheel thing was figured out, I then glued in formers F-15 to F-17at the rear of the fuse. F-17 is to be set at 91.32 degrees (or something close to that!!) relative to the crutch, so I made a jig using measurements taken from the plans.

Once all the formers were finally glued to the crutch, I started adding the stringers. I actually started with the top keel, and then started filling in the rest of the fuse. F4A and F5A were also added (cockpit details). There were some notches here and there that did not line up very well, so I had to cut new notches on a few of the formers. A razor saw and a hobby knife make quick work of cutting new notches. When adding stringers, I made sure to start at the crutch working upwards, being careful to alternate between the left and right side to keep warping/twisting forces to a minimum.

When most of the stringers were in, I added some of the wood that forms the support for the horizontal stab. I'm going to have to start building that pretty soon... as I'm not too far from that stage. But I need to cut all new parts because my dogs chewed the parts bag to bits a few months ago.

Anyway, t next steps will be to add the wood that locks in the wing, and then onto the sheeting on the top of the fuse and then lifting the assembly from the table, flipping it over and then adding the wing center section Looking forward to that stuff!

It's really starting to come together.

Be in touch with another update soon.

Regards,

Noah

carlbecker

My Feedback: (3)

Chic, it was good to meet you at the field Saturday. Looking sharp here! Are you going to Warbirds over Delaware this July?

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Well Charlie "K", good news travels fast. My best buddy Rick Moreland, just came back from Toledo. He told me he talked with ya. He knew I was building an Avenger but did not know it was your design. He's a pylon racer, you have to tell those guys at least 10 times plus a granny lap before they remember anything. Anyway, the most important part of Toledo that he told me about was that all he could hear from his old buddies such as folks like Nick Ziroli, Mike Barbee, Hahn, Platt, and several other great builders was that your Avenger was the talk of the town. You had the "WOW" factor going for you especially among all those guys for sure. He said any time those builders are "WOWING" about someone else's aircraft, you must be doing pretty good. Congrats Charlie. Well to add on to my misery, I now have a strained shoulder after splitting three girls up (fighting) at school over a da#* cupcake. So I'm currently laid up in a sling. At least I look cool as the kids say. Going to the ortho folks Monday for a final word, surgery or no surgery. Noah, keep building, at least you'll get airborne this year. Will be in touch again by Friday when I return from the Palm Springs Air Museum to see my models full scale cousin. I'm not going to fully blow my spring break. Chic

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Carl "B", I needed a day at the field to air out my brain. Meeting up with you was indeed a pleasure. Talking with you and your Jungmeister friend about scale was the breath of fresh air I needed. Great knowing there are still builders out there. Not sure about WOD, but we will try. Chic

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Chic "W"!

Glad to hear from you again. But I am really sorry to hear about your shoulder. Rest that wing, and get better soon (hopefully without surgery).

Glad to hear that Charlie is catching some attention with his avenger. It's a beauty for sure. Wish I could see it in person. Maybe someday.

Yes, I do hope to get my Avenger in the air this summer. But I still have a huge amount of work to do. I'm still trying to make as much progress as possible. I have also been officially banned from doing any major sanding in my work area (which is basically the downstairs family room!), so I now have to do all the dirty work outside on the patio or in the garage. My wife finally has enough of the balsa dust. Anyway, lately everytime I have a free Sunday afternoon or weekday evening, it's always been cold and nasty outside (snowing again today, in fact). So I'm not as far along as would like to be. But I'm getting there slowly.

Below are some pictures showing where I am in my build. All sub-assemblies are built. I still have to do some finish sanding on the control surfaces as well as finish the elevetor tips, but it's now time to actually start putting the beast together. I still have yet to mount the center section, but I have the incidence meter in hand now (borrowed from a friend), so I can get started on that ASAP. After that I can start routing the elevator and rudder control rods, and the air systems for the retracts and bombay doors, and then close up the bottom of the plane (Yeah! More strip-planking!!!!)

After the plane is finallly sheeted, then I'll finally be able to glue the stabs on and then onto final fitting/sanding/filling before the fiberglass work begins. I hope to have it in primer by July. At least that's my goal for right now.

Will post again Chic when I have some more to show.

Have fun in Palm Springs! Take lots of pictures.

Regards,

Noah

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Hey, Chic and everyone else that watches this thread...

Another update, although I didn't get much more accomplished this past week. I'm still busier than ever with work.

Here's where I am:

I got the wing center section mounted to the fuse, made sure it was straight, centered and set to 2 degrees positive relative to the fuse crutch (2 degrees negative, actually, since I installed the wing while the plane was inverted on the building table). Once the the adhesive was dry I installed the two F-21's, which basically lock the wing into place in the fuse. In additon to gluing F-21 to F-4 and F-9, I also clamped the parts to straight edges and glued the F-20's to the bottom of the wing. So, now the wing center section is permanently installed in the fuse.

Once the wing was on, I moved back to the tail section and started working the horizontal stab saddle. A fair bit if carving and sanding was required to get the stab to fit and match the incidence of the main wing. I have not yet glued it in place, but I will as soon as I finish installing the bottom stringers and planking the bottom of the fuse. The main point of dry-fitting the stab was to determine where the push rods for the elevator halves should exit the fuse. Before I close up the bottom of the fuse I want to make sure I have all the linkages routed. I also have to think some more about the tail wheel steering, too. So those are the next steps. I was hoping to get all the linkages routed/installed this weekend, and I was hoping to start planking the fuse again, but I just never had the time to devote to the Avenger.

Next weekend I'll try and get that stuff finally finished.

This plane is huge when assembled (wing panels plugged in)! The Avenger is going to be a seriously impressive model when I get it finsihed.

Chic, hope you had a good time in Palm Springs. I hope your arm is feeling better, too.

Keep in touch, Chic.

Talk to you soon.

Noah

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Noah and fellow TBM builders, my trip was inspirational to say the least. It is some kind of huge. The folks at the Palm Springs Air Museum were so very kind and helpful. I was given the run of the airplane. Exterior, interior, and of course the cockpit. I'm inspired to really get off my butt and get back into the shop to first paint the "DAWG", hook up the electronics in the Stinson, and today, I glued in the center section servo mounts and installed the elevator and center section flap servos (JR 4721's). Will work on installing the aileron and wing flap servo mounts (JR 2721's each). Then I will work on the center section flap control rod. Holding off on sheeting the wings and center sections for just a bit. But the trip was just what I needed. The full scale is just beautiful but once inside the rear door, you wonder where all of that size went. Pretty cramped. Glad I went, I'm ready to get to work. Thanks Noah for always checking up on me, your build is really going great, so very glad your keeping this thread alive with your great build. Chic

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Several additional shots.

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Last set of photos.

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Glad to hear the trip was good, Chic. I love the photos. Thanks for sharing. Looks like a great subject on which to pattern your Avenger. I should probably start thinking about schemes/full-sized Avengers.... just incase I find one I like and I have to do some additional work to match the fuse detail.

I agree with you, don't sheet anything until you're absolutely convinced that all interior wing/fuse work is complete! Careful thought and planning goes a long way towards moving forward at a consistent pace.

Just ordered some additional bits and pieces from Charlie (cockpit and bomb bay accessories). Feels good to have an actual need for some of those parts... thought I would never get there!

How's the shoulder, by the way? Hope there's no scalpel in your future.

Stay in touch.

Best,

Noah

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Hey there Noah, afraid a scalpel is certainly in my future. I have multiple ligament tears. What bomb bay accessory did you buy, I thought there was only a torpedo. The trip was great, certainly inspired me to get to work. Thanks for keeping this thread alive and well. Chic

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Sorry to hear about the pending surgery, Chic. Don't overwork the shoulder until you're well healed.

Sent you an email about the bomb bay. I commissioned a special accessory that Charlie does not offer for sale (am I lazy?... maybe!)

Be in touch soon.

Noah

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Trust me, my wife is tracking me like a hound dog to make sure I do not screw it up any further. I did the same thing you did with regards to the accessory. Thanks. Chic

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

Fellows, I hate to beat a dead horse, but when it rains, it pours. My wife was operated on for kidney cancer. I do not want to sound selfish but I can't take much more pain this month. First my shoulder injury, second getting notice of my Mom's terminal brain cancer, next my wife's kidney cancer & surgery yesterday. I'm afraid to wake up any more. I do get to visit my work shop once in a while to at least clean up anticipating when I can return to duty (sort of speak). Sorry guys for not being able to help with this build for now (Noah, Charlie, Frank, Jim, and my buddy Ken). I need some of God's grace right about now. Chic

Bill Jennings

My Feedback: (85)

G'Day Chick.
Hang on in there mate, things will come good. Good people will always win through. Our prayers are with you and your family my friend.


Regards.
Bill

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Chic,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I just got back from Seattle this evening.

I'll write directly to you shortly.

We're thinking about you. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and all of your family.

Noah

redtail

My Feedback: (15)

You guys are wonderful, truly wonderful. So many thanks from me to you. Chic

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

So, a little more progress on the Avenger.

Finally decided on how to steer the tail wheel. I was originally going to dedicate a servo to both the rudder and the tail wheel, but I finally just linked them both to a single servo. Once that was decided, I used some dowels and ply to reinforce the former that holds the tail gear. The former is basically tied to the spruce crutch. The air cylinder on the Sierra unit is also linked to this reinforcing framerwork. It's all very strong, but will be difficult to remove the cylinder without cutting into the bottom of the fuse. Lets hope the cylinder holds up. I wanted to install the tail gear with air cylinder as a single, removable unit, but I could not come up with a suitable bracket that would mount to the tail gear frame and be stiff enough to mount the air cylinder to as well. Oh, well. The way I have it installed functions well, and it should be fine as long as the cylinder hangs in there for the long haul.

Next I ran the guides for the push rods and pull-pull wires. I really thought long and hard about mounting the servos for the elevator halves in the tail area, but there was no obvious solution. Perhaps mounting these servos in the horizontal stab itself would have been the best option, but it was too late for that. Thus, for the elevator halves, I just went forward with the materials and methods that Charlie used on both his Avengers.

After those were run, I installed the air tanks. The larger tank is for the gear, and the smaller tank is for the bomb bay. I decided to put the servos and valves for the pneumatics in the bomb bay area, buried in the wing out of the way of the torpedo. The Robart (red) valves will control the bomb bay, while I used Sierra's larger capacity valve for the gear. All lines were tucked out of the way and secured here and there with zip-ties.

Thats about it for now. I'm sort of stuck until Iget the hinges for the bomb bay doors. I placed an order withNelson Hobby about 2 months ago... I call Jerry ever 2-3 weeks... I might have to find another source. I need them in order to work on the bomb bay. That's the next step.

Aside from the hinges holding up my progress, the other part of theproblem is that when the weather is good, and Ihave a bit of free time, I'm out there at our field flying! Below are some pictures from a perfect day at the field yesterday. It's overcast and threatening rain today, so I'll probably be working on the Avenger.

wulf190

My Feedback: (19)

I guess it only takes some pics of the 109 at the field to take me from 'watcher' to 'poster' in the thread here Noah.  Great looking TBM and 109 shots.  Funny at Toledo the past two years that I've eyeballed the Kellog TBM fiercely and said, "now THAT'S a cool model"........this means bad things for me in the future probably....your build puts things further towards that end.

butlern

My Feedback: (15)

Hey, Mike.

You should take the plunge on the Kellogg Avenger. Impressive kit, indeed. I've watched some of your excellent builds here on RCU, so I know that you're generally busy with several projects, but I think you should work this kit into the pipeline. It's going to be an attention getter anywhere you take it!

Running stringers on the bottom of the fuse today. Maybe I'll get to planking and sheeting before too late tonight. Will post again with an update soon.

Best,

Noah

wulf190

My Feedback: (19)

Txs Noah.  I figured I was a goner this year when I saw the one on the table there, and second....Dang man, that's the SECOND one in two years that I've drooled on now.  They have a ton of character.  It would be a good 'next step' in a project probably, but I'm also not sure I could fit something like that in my work area [X(]....just another problem to overcome I suppose.  Will live vicariously thru your build for the present.   Enjoying watching.